Hey all, Vinsanity here!
So I've started to work on a few final assignments for uni and I though, frigate that, I will make some LoT lists instead (what a rebel)!
So my options are from 4 different armies - Imperial Fists, Black Templars, Sisters of Battle and Imperial Guard. Each has units which I still need to buy and paint...
Each will be with different levels of hardness and fluff, eg the Fists and Templars lists are fluffier but aren't as strong as the Sisters or Guard lists, imo... I wanted to test my might with less than optimum lists and include a few units I like so as not to get 0/5 for comp like I predict someone Will...(/clever pun).
So on to the lists!
List 1 - Imperial Fists 1750
HQ
Lysander 200
Elites
5x Terminators - TH/SS 200
In Land Raider Crusader - Multi-Melta 260
Troops
10 x Tactical – flamer, Multi-melta 170
In Rhino 35
10 x Tactical – Meltagun, Lascannon 185
In Razorback with Plasma/Lascannon 75
5 x Scouts w/Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks, 1x Heavy Bolter 100
Fast Attack
Land Speeder Tornado - Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer 70
Land Speeder Tornado - Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer 70
Land Speeder Tornado - Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer 70
Heavy Support
Vindicator 115
Thunderfire 100
Thunderfire 100
Total 1750
So this list is quite fluffy methinks. Should go easier on Aussie comp due to the Thunderfires ^^ It combines some harder elements of a Fist style siege (LRC and Termis) with some fluffier choices (Thunderfires and Vindi) and finally some good old speeders.
For this list, I need to buy 2 Thunderfires, 1 Vindi, 3 LSTs, 5 Scouts and a few more marines.
To paint, I have all of the above, then the tactical marines. So quite a lot :( However, this army would be the easiest to paint out of the four.
So list 2 is Black Templars 1750
HQ
Marshal - Terminator Honours, Twin Lightning Claws, Holy Orbs, CS 135
Emperors Champion - Accept Any Challenge, CS 140
Elites
5 Sword Brethren Terminators - 2 Assault Cannons, Tank Hunters Skill, CS 255
Troops
10 Initiates - bps, ccws, Meltagun, Powerfist
4 Neophytes - bps,ccws 225
7 Initiates - bps, ccws, Meltagun, Powerfist
2 Neophytes -bps, ccws 157
Mounted in Rhino - Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers 58
8 Initiates - bps, ccws, Meltagun, Powerfist
2 Neophytes -bps, ccws 173
Mounted in Rhino - Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers 58
5 Initiates - Plasmagun, Lascannon 101
Fast Attack
3 Initiate Bikers - 3 Flamers 105
Land Speeder Tornado - Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer 75
Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader with Smoke Launchers 268
Total 1750
So think list is really my cool 1500 BT list with some mods. Quite fluffy too imo. Overall I like the balance of anti-tank to anti-infantry firepower, as well as close combat ability.
With this list, I would need to buy about 10 more Initiates, the 3 Bikers, the LST, and possibly the LRC but I could always just repaint my Grey Knights one...
However, this list is almost all unpainted, so would have to be painted by the tourney date should I take it... It is a lot of black though so it should be easy peasy...
Onto List 3 - Imperial Guard 1750
HQ
CCS - Autocannon, Officer of the Fleet 90
Mounted in Chimera - Heavy Bolter, Multi-Laser 55
Troops
Infantry Platoon
PCS - 4 Flamers 50
Mounted in Chimera - Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer 55
Infantry Squad A - Autocannon, flamer 65
Infantry Squad B - Missile Launcher, flamer 70
Infantry Squad C - Missile Launcher, flamer 70
Infantry Squad D - Autocannon, flamer 65
1 Heavy Weapons Squad - 3 Autocannons 75
Veteran Squad - 3 Meltaguns 100
Mounted in Chimera - Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer 55
Veteran Squad - 3 Meltaguns 100
Mounted in Chimera - Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer 55
Veteran Squad - 3 Meltaguns 100
Mounted in Chimera - Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer 55
Fast Attack
2 Vendettas - 3 Twin Linked Lascannons 260
1 Vendetta - 3 Twin Linked Lascannons 130
1 Valkyrie - Multiple Rocket Pods 130
Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank - Hull and Sponson Heavy Bolters 170
Total 1750
So this is really my general take on most guard lists, being a mix of foot and mech. This one I may have gone overboard with the Valk and Vendettas and thus, the infantry squads can be mounted ftw. Not sure how Aussie comp will respond to such an armoured guard list, probably not very friendlyly :(:(
I will need to purchase 4 Chims, 4 Valk boxes (to convert Vendettas I should have enough lascannons around) and also some autocannons and meltaguns to make some more of them... And possibly convert some Veterans too but I have a few cool ideas on how to do this...
My guard are mostly painted, but I may have to repaint some stuff since its been a while since I've brushed or touched them (wtflol?) Alas I would have to paint my newly acquired toys too... Overall though, I think it would be less painting than any of the other 4 armies...
And finally, the Sisters of Battle 1750
HQ
Palatine - Inferno Pistol, ccw, frag grenades, krak grenades 53
5 Celestians Bodyguard - 2 Meltaguns 85
Mounted in Immolator - Smoke Launchers, Extra Armour 68
Elites
5 Celestians - 2 Meltaguns 85
Mounted in Immolator - Smoke Launchers, Extra Armour 68
5 Celestians - 2 Meltaguns 85
Mounted in Immolator - Smoke Launchers, Extra Armour 68
Troops
10 Sisters - Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Veteran Sister Superior with Book of St Lucius, Brazier of Holy Fire
Mounted in Rhino - Smokes, Extra Armour 219
10 Sisters - Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Veteran Sister Superior with Book of St Lucius, Brazier of Holy Fire
Mounted in Rhino - Smokes, Extra Armour 219
5 Inquisitorial Storm Troopers - 2 Meltaguns 70
5 Inquisitorial Storm Troopers - 2 Meltaguns 70
Fast Attack
6 Dominions - 4 Flamers, Veteran Sister Superior - Brazier of Holy Fire 126
Mounted in Immolator - Smoke Launchers, Extra Armour 68
6 Dominions - 4 Flamers, Veteran Sister Superior - Brazier of Holy Fire 126
Mounted in Immolator - Smoke Launchers, Extra Armour 68
Heavy Support
Exorcist- Smoke Launchers 138
Immolator - Smoke Launchers, Extra Armour 68
Immolator - Smoke Launchers, Extra Armour 68
Total 1750
So this one is quite a competitive one too, lots of mech and lots of flamers and meltas is the winning formula for teh win. It isn't a huge amount of immos, but enough for most opponents to uncontrollably dump ass when they see it. Theres 12 meltas, 1 inferno pistol (yay!), 9 heavy flamers and 12 flamers including braziers as well as 8 faith points.
With this list, I will need to purchase 6 immos, 2 rhinos, some meltagun sisters (or convert some), some meltagun ISTs (or convert some) and then some VSS (or convert some).
In terms of painting, it will be everything (less an immo, a few ISTs and the palatine)... Omfg :( Hehe. It will require more effort than the other 3 armies to paint but will be the best looking imo if I finish it which I should since its not a very difficult scheme (dheneb stone coloured bone) and there are shortcuts to take too...
So there we go! My 4 lists of pwnage for LoT! Some C&C is definitely required and I am open to changing some stuff around too... Maybe Kirby could put up a poll and tag this or something (<3 Kirbs) since I really desperately need some C&C and opinions on which list to take as I am undecided atm...
Thanks everyone and post some C&C and tell me which list you like best!!
11 pinkments:
Fists:
I think Lysander works best Podding in a unit of Sternguard. He makes their bolters better and delivers a hammer/anvil combo right to your opponent's doorstep. Drop them in, roll up Termies, Rhinos, and Speeders to support.
Alternatively, drop Lysander for a Librarian and pick up more ranged weapons to crack open mech from afar (Preds, Rifleman Dreads, Razors) and finish them off with TFCs.
BTs:
FC lightning claws FTW, especially in a LRC. I'd do that with 3 Rhinos in tandem and add Speeders/Preds to taste. Alternatively, go all foot with more tank hunting ACs, marine blobs and maybe AC/LC Preds to snipe.
IG:
Autocannons FTW. I'd drop a Vendy and the LRBT for 2 Demolishers. This will get fucked over on comp.
SoB:
Very good, but comp will dick you.
Of the 4, I'd take the Sisters or BTs just because older books tend to get more favorable looks with regards to comp. The IG can be the most powerful while staying compy, but it would require you to take a good mix of different units.
Good luck
Black Templars look to be my favorite.
I think the Sisters (do the 10x SoBs have Rhinos btw? Not listed). Outside of that I would fiddle with your BT to get in more Termies as you know how much I hate your 2+ save units (epic 3++ final showdown!).
In regards to comp you could prob make the IG list the most comp happy whilst running a decent list but I think you've got the most practice with your SoB and I think that army so might go with them.
Poll is up btw and this post linked to original Lords of Terra post.
Thanks yall for the replies :D
Chumb - I quite like Lysander with termis in a LRC, he can soak up lots of low AP, high STR hits for them. Really its kind of like having 9 termis in terms of survivability. I don't think I will drop him for a libby but thats not a bad idea. Just that Ive painted him up nicely and am keen to use him ^^.
The Templars I like how they are atm, I don't have to do much more building of models and there is a fair balance of units to help with comp. I think it will get the best comp score out of the 4 lists.
IG and SoB - I like both lists but they probs are too hard for a softer Aussie environment unfortunately :(
Kirbs - Yeah SoB I do have a fair bit of practice with but IG was my first army back in the day and the SM variants arent hard to master ^^. Not sure about the SoB one and its comp rating, maybe a 1/5 or less :(. I could always soften it up with Penitent Engines and Arco-Flagellants with less immos and 1 more exorcist...
Thanks for the poll btw :D
Any more C&C? Remember to vote on the poll on the left since I will pretty much take the army that is highest in the end (barring any genius ideas I may have on the other armies or painting issues with that army).
Gogo vote!!
Oh and shete, the 2 SoB squads do have rhinos, ill edit it now! Vote!
I can't really assess the BT list properly, don't know their army well enough. :(
The Fists army looks okay, although I think Chumb has the right idea. Also, don't fool yourself: yellow is never the easiest color to paint. Never.
The IG list looks nasty. Why all the Flamers, though? Slap some Sniper Rifles in with the ACs or Grenade Launchers if you wanna be mobile. Valk/Vends would be a problem for your comp score, to be sure; perhaps there's some way you could tweak that.
Sisters do look interesting, but you'd definitely take the comp hit, and having to build/paint that many units sounds rough. And with some decent evidence of a new 'Dex coming up, you might be in for some ugly surprises when it's released.
Overall, it seems like either the IG list or Fists are your best bets. I really don't understand Ausland, though, so I'm not sure what you're up against.
How about mixing the IG and SoB? Could give you some more variety and armor without having to buy anything new.
I hope this doesn't sound too mean... please don't take it as so.
I'd have to say, the BT list does not seem to be extremely optimised. Flamer bikes? Marshal without Inv. save? One speeder and no Preds? I know you've nerfed it in preparation for comp... but I can't see it bothering too many people.
Heavy support in the Fist list ruins it.
IG - too many flamers, not enough bubble wrap. You've spent too many points on heavy weapons in units that need to have some reactionary mobility and that you're happy to let die.
Sister - Why flamer sisters in immolators?
I'd agree with Chumb on the IG/Sister mix. If not. IG. Just please not the BT list.
Dude, use a "Black Tide" Templars list if you can. Two fat ass squads of 20 led by Chaplains with Cenobyte Servitors, then add support. All you really need to fear are ordnance heavy lists.
Thanks for the replies ppl :D The poll so far reads 8 for BTs and 8 for SoB but I will change the game with my improved BT list which I will post up... Its the best list by far out of the 4 imo, and quite fluffy too and will go easier on comp (maybe) than the other 3 will.
AbusePuppy - Btw, do u really abuse puppies? :P Ive got a quick yellow process, doesn't even use any yellow paint (2 yellow inks and a sepia wash!) :) I quite like the idea of GL or SRs and Ive got enough models to do it ^^ Might look into changing them up a bit.
I agree that SoB will take a comp hit so Im not so sure about them anymore. The fact that I have all that painting to do, which won't be easy since its a time consuming scheme means that they are likely the army that I won't take since I won't have finished them by tourney date :( Which sucks hard coz they would have been the hardest list to play against. It screws mech and it screws horde, only really fast mech armies would pose a problem (thats how I see it anyway ^^)
Chumb - Not a fan of mixing SoB, GK and guard or any combination of them. I like the pure armies, pure GK or pure SoB, with the addition of IST in only those lists, not in IG or in SM lists. Just something that Ive never done and am not a huge fan of unfortunately, since it would be quite a solid list :)
Brother Loring - Not at all man, in fact, your assessment pritty much sums up the BT list for me: Its not optimal by any means. Ive addressed this a lot after your post, being quite critical has improved the list a great deal ^^/ Thanks heaps for that, I'll post a new one up in a new post...
Not sure what you mean by IF heavy ruining it? In terms of comp or in terms of gameplay? I think its ok with 2 Thunderfires potentially in 3+ cover to provide some anti-infantry firepower and its quite fluffy. Don't really see many TFCs around which will be ok for comp (one would think).
IG - I agree, too many flamers now that I look back at it. Its quite hard to make a softer guard list that Im happy with imo, since theres so many optimum units to take and when the army list doesn't include some of those, Im not convinced ;) If the squads are mounted in Valks/Vendettas, they should have a GL or a melta and no Heavy weapon i spose. But the times which they aren't mounted, I thought that they would provide some AC fire from cover or something...
SoB flamers in immos isn't too bad, ive got to use the faith points somewhere ^^ Im quite sure that aussie tourneys feature horde Orks quite heavily, so I took a few flamer units to deal with those a bit better... Plus I have like 10 flamer SoB models (and like 10 useless Storm bolter models) so I thought Id take a few to save me from buying more sisters...
Overall, your post really was quite helpful in changing the BT list, you should have a look at it in the other post as your C&C is quite direct and useful. Cheers mate ^^
Katie Drake - I would if I could, thats just too many models to buy, build and paint for my liking in time for the tourney hehe.
Thanks again for the replies ppl, keep em coming and check out my new BT list!
Am I late?! Kirb was bugging me to be more proactive and throw some advice on this blog more often...
PS: Katie Drake, where have you BEEN? Last I saw/heard from you was like 2 years ago over on LO...
Onto the lists:
BT: I agree with the general consensus here on this one, and I saw your new list and it looks much more solid. I would have recommended (and you did), drop the bikes and the non-mech squad. In it's place a second HF/MM speeder is good. I was going to recommend maybe a Typhoon speeder, until I realized you still got 4th ed typhoon missiles (failtacular). I'm not a huge fan of AC/LC preds, mainly because they're...too staticy. Then again, I run 2 squads of LF's in my SW list so, I really can't complain. Just make sure you don't do what one of my opponents did one game and have them sit nicely side by side...TWC love it when they can multi-charge your fire support.
IG: It sort of looks like you wanted to do an Aircav army, but also wanted to do a mech army and also a foot slog army. I'd say, figure out which "style" you want for your guard and run with it. If you want the Full blown Mech Adventure, I'd say do the tried-and-true Vets in Chimera list, or at least give your PCS a Chimera. On the other hand if you're going to run 4 aircraft, then I'd go whole hog and due a pure or hybrid Aircav list. Get 2 more vet squads, drop the big blob platoon, drop the HW from the CCS and give them some more close range goodies (meltas, medic, heavy flamer maybe, some bodyguards for your commander, astropath, etc.), get another 2 aircraft, and then use whatever is left to fill out your heavy support slot - personally I like Manticore's and Hydras, with Medusa's coming in 3rd. Manticore's pwn horde as well as mech - especially if your opponent is playing "choo-choo" train mech and trying to keep his vehicles together to give each other cover saves. Hydra's also put the pain on Mech, especially all the AV11-12 we see so much of nowadays.
I'd also drop the flamers from all your grunt squads - if they're moving they're not firing their HW, and if they're firing their HW, they ain't close enough to be using the flamer. Troop numbers-wise you're solid with 3 vets to grab/contest objectives, and the Platoon blob to hold your own.
SoB: Agree with the comments above, give those Dominions Meltas. You have enough vehicular anti-horde (yay Immo Spam!)so no need to waste it on your troops. My old mantra (passed on to me by a wise person over at LO, with regard to how to effectively build an Elysian/Aircav Army): Use your vehicles to take out troops, and your troops to take out vehicles.
Hopefully this helped out some!
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