Kirb your enthusiasm!


"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Sunday, May 23, 2010

Stelek's take on Blood Rodeo + more analysis

Well the Blood Rodeo has now claimed multiblog fame being posted on YTTH courtesy of an e-mail in by Dave. No reference to 3++, myself or Curly makes me an upset puppy. Please wait...okay better, phew! The original Blood Rodeo list is here and Stelek's take on it can be found here. I've made a few changes to the original list but haven't posted all of them such as different secondary powers on the Libs and hand flamers on the ASM squads. So let's look at the differences between the original list and Stelek's updated list.

The original Blood Rodeo has an extra FNP/FC bubble (generally for DSing the Jumper portion which was the main problem of this list, if you did DS you split your army up nicely), no really good combat unit and 30 ASM in 3 squads. Stelek's list trades the 3rd FNP/FC bubble and 5 ASM for Priest weapons and a Terminator squad (the bikes also have flamer/meltagun/MM over meltagun/meltagun/MM). Whilst I might drop the weapons from the Priests for another Priest because I'm a stickler about FNP/FC bubbles I think this list is a lot more balanced. You start all on the table generally execpt the Termies/small ASM squad so your synergy is a lot better and you're taking advantage of those T4(5)/FNP bikes more-so than the original list. The termies, although slow, provide a big rock unit to really support the survivability of this list (20 bikes & 27 jumpers w/FNP? okay) and can really provide a scare to assault oriented armies.

So, any other way to make this list more optimised or do we think it's pretty good atm?

Edit: had to run away from comp so editing this post now. As I said above Stelek’s adjustments to the Blood Rodeo are ones that I like and make the list more competitive, particularly since the smaller and potentially sacrificial units are your Troops, you now have a nice hammer to throw into the fray which generally laughs at torrent of fire. Again, the list is much more capable of starting on the table en masse compared to the original which was more about reserving. Whilst this can still be done if you believe it necessary with the changes, the list really isn’t hoping for 1st turn anymore. The loss of bodies is minimal and generally made up by the Terminators anyway. There is some melta lost (I might put melta back on the Bikes or a combi on the sarge) but for the most part mech outside of Eldar/DE hates you just like it hates a Biker army.

So analysing what this style of list brings to the table in isolation (you can see a comparison to bikers here). It’s taking as much advantage out of FNP/FC bubbles as possible. Bikes enjoy the added benefit against small arms of T5 and now get FNP as well. As was discussed in this article here, FC across the board also makes the list viable as an assault army. Without the two massive rocks of Command Squads, Blood Rodeo is able to survive on mass S5/I5 attacks w/added PFists now backed up by the rock on a terminator unit. The bane of this list is still MCs and Dreads which should be primary targets of meltaguns and again the Terminator unit alleviates this. Nothing says bugger off to CC monsters like Terminators w/FNP.

This ‘abuse’ of FNP/FC on bikes is buoyed by the ~30ish jumper marines also benefiting from FNP/FC. That takes quite a bit of firepower to down and they have the added benefit of mobile cover *pats bikes.* They bring weight of attacks, bodies and meltaguns to the table wrapped up in a little bundle that moves 12” and scores. Yes please! Furthermore, Stelek’s changes drop the Honor Guard with the huge “hit me” sign. 4 meltaguns & FNP/FC bubble on 5 marines generally got shot and died quickly. Now, particularly with the terminators deep striking, there is a lot more balance across the board on what to shoot at which means your opponent is more likely to make a booboo.

The speed of the army overall also allows it to deal with mech (backed up by the saturation of melta weapons) and again since the bikes are screening the jumpers, they take the brunt of the majority of assaults. T4(5)/3+/FNP is pretty decent in combat when backed up by a Terminator squad and a bunch of ASM and some PFists. What this list offers is a combination of using ASM & Bikes together in a cohesive and competitive force. It’s different from your pure Jumper army and it’s different from your pure Bikes or Fast’N’Slow. What’s not to love about diversity?

So again, thoughts on the changes? I recall TKE saying VV would be a good addition. Do we still think this or do the Terminators alleviate this? Maybe Stelek will stick his head in and leave a comment *fans self* but I think the pink might confuse him! Here is the final list btw...

HQ -
Libby w/Blood Lance & Sword, Bike
Libby w/Blood Lance & Sword, Bike

Elite -
Terminators x5 w/TH/SS
Sang Priest x2 w/JP

Troops -
5x ASM w/meltagun, infernous pistol, hand flamer, meltabombs
10x ASM w/2 meltaguns, hand flamer, PFist
10x ASM w/2 meltaguns, hand flamer, PFist

Fast Attack -
8x Bikes w/2 meltaguns, PFist, combi-flamer, AB w/MM
8x Bikes w/2 meltaguns, PFist, combi-flamer, AB w/MM

Totals: 1915
Bikes: 20
Jumpers: 27
Terminators: 5

So 85 pts to spend. Could potentiall go another terminator, Sang Priest or put some upgrades here and there. I also put in 2 meltaguns + combi-flamer to the Bike squads over 1 flamer/1 meltagun.

And here is my updated Blood Rodeo which I'll be making.

12 pinkments:

Chumbalaya said...

Whoa, you're coming up in the world!

I'm not sold on the Terminators tbh. Maybe I just can't see it, but there seems to big a huge disparity between the speeds of both unit. Termies can run, but they can get outpaced pretty quickly, especially against a more mobile opponent. Deep Striking would help a lot, but they don't get DoA so end up a tad more vulnerable.

I think VV would be more useful in this regard. 270 points can get you a solid unit. Storm Shields make them that good anvil, while TH/LCs would make them very potent on the drop.

Kirby said...

Aye they deepstrike and you don't need to DS aggressively with them. They are essentially there to smash into any units in cc which bother you whilst the Bikes hold them in place.

Whilst DoA is advantageous, Sang Guard & VV lose out in some way to terminators. Sang Guard have no invul so aren't really that rock unit you want and VV can only get SS for the same price which means they lack some punch and are more subject to torrent. 3+/FNP is good. 2+/FNP is better (w/a 3++).

Anonymous said...

Hey Kirby, I left this on YTTH but I figured you'd be more likely to see it if I put it on your blog as well.

You're right I did originally bum the 'Blood Rodeo' list off your blog, and should have given you credit where credit was due. You have my apologies. Hope there's no hard feelings.

Dave (Not Dan)

winter said...

I think the Terminators are a good addition, however you have to bring them in at the right time as they will just be sitting around for a turn after entering. Thankfully they will in all likelihood still be there at the end of that turn.

I don't however see how them having FNP helps them say bugger off to CC monsters. Every CC monster that I can think of has weapons which don't allow a FNP roll.

What VV give you is a way to lock some units in place in an all jumper list. Rodeo doesn't need this as everything is likely going to start on the board. You also have the bikes to lock something if necessary.

Kirby said...

Hey Dave (not Dan).

That's okay! I was enjoying a laugh :P (it's the voices...). Glad you liked it and were willing to send it to Stelek! I think Stelek's changes really helped.

@Winter; FNP doesn't say anything to the MCs, the Terminators do. 3++ with a bunch of THs > MCs. Spot on the with the bikes/VV. VV would be nice just for DoA for the late turn deep strike or if your bikes are really in trouble, but with the points you have all you're really going to do is having a really tough unit w/SS or lots of power weapons. You can shave some upgrades to give them LCs but...really the Terminators are okay here for what they do with just the minor disadvantage of 6" move and no DoA.

Anonymous said...

I really like this list, and thinking about it i'm wondering why you put JP on SP instead of bikes? T5 for a model you don't wand to die, plus a bigger footprint for the bubbles, what's not to like?

Smurfy said...

Think it needs some changes with how bubbles have slightly changed?

Kirby said...

@Anon; they can be on bikes but harder to jump through units due to not jumping (so harder to have those bubbles where and when you want them) and temptation to put them in the Biker squads which are meant to die.

@Smurfy; not really. I'd lean more towards a 3rd SP with the points I shaved but that's about it.

JRV said...

I am playing a similar version, with ML Devs in place of the bikes. How would you handle assault armies like nids or orks?

Kirby said...

That's a Jumper list then JRV with Jumpers & Devs; Blood Rodeo is very specific.

For what army to handle essentially horde assault armies? The jumper army or Blood Rodeo?

JRV said...


Kirby said...

Sorry JRV, didn't see this!

Jumper the majority of your horde control comes your ASM & VV. Against horde armies your VV are rarely need as anti-super units and on the charge your I5 should be better than most if not all horde armies. You then need to combine assaults as much as possible whilst limiting incoming attacks (i.e. from PK Nobs). Whilst you don't have tanks for this you can use your other infantry blobs to force the horde to go around. What's important though is getting the charge and maximising the focal point. Hordes hate T4/3+/FNP as you're essentially fighting 50+ terminators.

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