Good morning my good minions. Centurion information has been posted up on Fester40k which I shall summarise here.
- 1750 points
- Warhammer 40k
- 32-64 players
- NOVA based 2-day event
- 4 tiered mission setup
- tons of prizes
- Friday Night S10 challenge (apparently I'm playing in this...)
A lot of you will have read a lot of posts about KP v VP after NOVA (which used VP over KP). Centurion would like to use KP in some fashion as it is more in line with the BRB and there was a post on 3++ about it here. So what we'd like you to do is read the following information and vote on the poll to the left for what system Centurion will use. This will by no means be a definitive poll like my Lords of Terra army choice one but it will provide valuable information for Fester and the other TO's to make their decision (or they could completely ignore it). So the systems are as follows:
- no KP (VP instead)
- KP straight from the BRB
- BRB KP but need to have 2-3+ more than your opponent
- Stelek's 5x5 system where opponent picks
- Stelek's 5x5 system where TO picks
So vote on the left and debate their merits and demerits here and let's provide as much support and help for Centurion as possible!
33 pinkments:
"1750 is a bit disappointing but much better than 1750"
Hmm :P
How'd you notice that and I didn't lol.
Maybe you've been staring too long at the screen, and glazed over it with strained eyes? Also life is about the lols. :D
We have since (in the last 24 hours) picked up Alpha Hobbies as a sponsor. I have approached a few other companies for support (or just discounts) and I am awaiting responses from them.
My vote's for opponent pick kp's. Aways liked this idea, would like to see it implemented in a large tournament.
My vote is opponent picks KP. I think no more then 2 or 3 transports though.
Timings got messed up so poll is now up on lefthand side!
Suggested alternative:
KP's from the rulebook, but each player picks two of their units which are worth an extra KP if destroyed. Said units also give up the bonus VP if they have not been deployed by the end of turn 3 (no hiding them in reserve).
KP denial armies then have a few more KP's to give up then they would normally.
I'll go as well so we can have multiple authors from the 3++ crew attending (thus the basis of a pink army lol!) but also because it should be a good event and not enough 1750pt tournies are played in Aus. :) So whoever it is, mark me down next to Kirby as 99.99% sure I am going (seeing as limited spots and all).
I voted for TO chooses the 5 KP's.
The reason here is, firstly it could be as simple as 1 from each of HQ, Troops, Elites, fast Attack and Heavy Support, but with a TO assigning them you can get even valued in terms of points KP assignation happening or as close to. If your opponent does it, then game by game smart opponents will pick the 5 easiest things they can kill to guarantee the KP's occur. If the TO does the choosing, then it is balanced in terms of all armies across the playing field.
An alternative to the TO assigning the KP's is to get a panel of players not attending the tourney from say The U.S. to pick 5 KP's from each list with the lists submitted without names so as they are completely annonymous, with the guidelines of make them as even as possible.
Just my 2 Groats,
Auretious Taak.
Why you don't tell me when you are talking about things I've said is beyond me.
After much internal discussion, I think there is a way to do KP fairly.
And now you can wait for me to publish it.
See what happens when you don't involve me and steal Taak from me? =D
@Fester:
[quote]Overview:
CENTURION is Central Queensland's, and probably both Queensland and Australia's first dedicated no-comp tournament.[/quote]
If you only read wargamerau then you've been grossly misinformed as to the make up of the Australian Tournament scene. We have BOTH a comp and a non-comp player scene. The non-comp scene is basically summed up by one state: Western Australia. Everywhere else in Australia plays to a Comp scene. The Non-Comp WA scene isn't talked about on WAU because the WA players have their own forums. I can't remember where and WAU doesn't link them directly from memory which is balls. Though a nmber of their players do turn up to Lords of Terra each year, having ranked first in their respective tournaments to qualify for High Lords. :)
Railguns kills are also double KP's and VP's, on account of AWESOME.
@Stelek; not my tourney :P lol. I'm sure Fester and the other TO's look forward to seeing what you publish. Oh and Taak latched onto me, he's like a leech, can't get rid of him =D.
...
I mean he rocks *shifty eyes.*
@Taak.
Well there ya go. Didn't know WA wasn't doing no-comp. I stand corrected (but am still leaving the sales pitch because hey, its a sales pitch)
Lets be honest though, WA is so far from anywhere "relevant" it might as well not be in Australia.
On a side note - saves me digging the intarwebs to send you a personal invite... now only 1 other Aussie e-celeb I know of, Messanger of Death :)
If anyone knows any others, let me know please!
@Stelek
I emailed you about the tourney, not that you will find it in the other 100 million emails you get :)
Why change the KP rules at all, yes they do hurt mech'd armies in 33% of the missions from the rulebook, but mech is undeniably effective anyhow. Changing the rules for the KP you are justifying people's whinning and trying to optimise the win oportunities of an already strong style of armlist/play.
I will still make an effort to attent such a contest either way, but if you are out and out trying to see who is the best, don't change the rules. You are throwing comp out the window, tops! You guys are trying to have a hardcore 40K tournie where the strongest list will be taken to hotly contend all games. Magic tournaments don't change the win conditions to 19 life games or 8 card starting hands, I would like the KP missions left as is and if you want to minimise your KP... good luck to you, but in 66% of the missions you will be at a distinct diadvantage against your opponent, if you are a better general and can beat them good luck.
The yard stick should still be a yard long.
@Borkai
Question for you. If you do standard KP, do you support having a winning margin >1 kp, as is reflected in 'major win' rankings in normal tournament events?
Hey fester, yeah I play standard KP. A margin of 1KP is an awesome close game, but in the end when you have to say one person won, well it is clear as both players knew KPs were the mission objectives from the start. In a friendly setting when I win a game by said 1 KP, I happily call it a draw, but in a tournie it would be a close game but a win. As a player I see wins/losses, and draws as the viable outcomes, a swiss draw tournie will provide an undefeated player at the end as a clear winner (most of the time providing the correct number of rounds), and opponent % can be used for countbacks. Tabling an opponent is a win just like beating someone by 1 KP in a tournanment. no minor victories, major victories or battle points etc.... Hardcore but my my personal view
Interesting.
As the TO I am taking as much info on board to make this call.
Historially, I prefer seeing a margin of about 2 kps as a win, and anything else too close to call. It is worth thinking about though :)
Thanks.
cool, yeah happy to provide an opinion (its free :)). I suppose if you go down a different KP road, I would prefer to see your in battle point only attribute to a win/draw/loss, so say if you were to use objective points and VPs or KP, the winner of the battle will then proceed with a win, and the actualy score of the battle would only matter on a countback where two people's wins/draws/losses AND opponent % were identical. Cheers :)
" Tabling an opponent is a win just like beating someone by 1 KP in a tournanment. no minor victories, major victories or battle points etc.... Hardcore but my my personal view"
Agree with this completely which is what nova and centurion are all about rather than Battle Points (on the 'competitive' side at least). You often find a minor win is actually a better win than a massacre as a closely fought game between two good generals and lists generally result in close games compared to good vs bad generals/lists resulting in big wins/losses. Not always but over the course of a tournament with 30+ players and major/minor you'll find that happens.
The good thing about the tiered system is for KP victories to be more stringent (i.e. need 2-3 more KP than your opponent) yet you can still determine a winner by objectives/quarters/VP/etc.
@Stelek,
Technically no one stole me from anyone, from memory I was never recognised as an official author for YTTH anyways (hence the mad hardcore ninja status references lol) and post stuff so randomly and infrequently that it's hard to say how much I do contibute to anything. Throw in the fact it's much the same here except that the 2 main articles I've done were published on YTTH previously anyways (what can i say, I'm fucking sick of Lure of Chaos, 4.5 pages hand written A4 and rising on how to abuse that particular spell in Mordheim as a Magister kinda has me wandering away from the article again lol) and well what has Kirby gained? lol.
Besides, being able to post here, I can post topics which simply will not be recieved well at all on YTTH. Seriously, how many zombyes would respond well to a break down of the australian metagame in terms of the comp scene the majority of us have to deal with? Oh no, it'd just be rage fuelled crap and peole abusing me for talking about comp in a non-comp environement despite the mission of YTTH to be improving your game significantly, well that extends to improving within a comp system, as much as we dislike it we have to deal with it. I can write shit like that here and pop up and down on YTTH at will.
Besides, you didn't email me back about Cryx or make a proposal. I play marines. I need razorback and riflemen spam and combi-melta wolfguard and mayhaps another auto-las pred. Like I said, make an offer back. :p
Kirby, suck the leechdom! Make time for a game damn it! Sunday's, I'm free Sunday's! :D
[quote]fester said...
@Taak.
Well there ya go. Didn't know WA wasn't doing no-comp. I stand corrected (but am still leaving the sales pitch because hey, its a sales pitch)
Lets be honest though, WA is so far from anywhere "relevant" it might as well not be in Australia.[/quote]
By that reasoning, neither should NSW, or Queensland in relation to me directly. It's so far away from anywhere else who cares? You want to make Centurion THE premier non-comp event, do the hard yards, crack an account on Wargamerau and ask for a link to the non-comp WA forums. Contact them. Get the hardcore players down, you know, the ones who play U.S./Rest of the World based armies ALL THE TIME. Did you see some of the armies at the woolongong dakka dakka tourney? Holy heck, if I wasn't sick and fucked on lack of sleep on Sunday my legion of the Damned 5/5 comp themed army i was running for shiggles could have actually pulled a win against some of those armies...i believe you're not only doing Australia a great injustice in stating WA doesn't matter, but also Centurion as a concept. Maybe you didn't notice the Visitor Locations map for 3++, but there is a massive WA concentration there...don't be a hater man. Rockhampton is the middle of nowhere for me. No idea how I'm even getting there at this point. See. Case in point.
[quote]On a side note - saves me digging the intarwebs to send you a personal invite... now only 1 other Aussie e-celeb I know of, Messanger of Death :)
[/quote]
Nuh uh, send me the e-peen win! Knowing me, I'll forget randomly lol.
There's one thing that will stand in my way of attending and it all gets down to dates the games are run, but Humans Verse Zombies at Australian National University, Game 4, 1st semester next year and also the Macquarie Game I am trying to set up. Both games will happen some time in March, not sure when yet. They get the preference over Centurion unfortunately and I won't know dates till much closer. So bear that in mind. :)
Cheers guys,
Auretious Taak.
P.S. For those not in the know about HvZ:
http://hvz.club.anu.edu.au/
The summary video of the 3rd Game I played in at ANU where as a noob I demonstrated that some of us are just better at surviving a zombie apocalypse scenario then others regardless of experience, being 3rd last human to die 133 hours through and taking a dozen zombies out once all other humans on the bridge had been killed at our final stand, lol. Oh I won Best Human for the Game and the squad, well we won Best Squad Style (The Cavalry rocked!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpnAqUJeTKo
Though the Game 2 Summary Video is so much more epic, including Gun Cam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM1sQMc49TA
Woop! I need to sleep, night all!
Auretious Taak.
@Taak:
"Rockhampton is the middle of nowhere for me."
I live there, and it's the middle of nowhere for me :D
You obviously missed on the sarcasm-o-meter.
I have a WGAU username (fester) and I have posted this up there as well. I seem to be getting some interest from some of the players I definitely wanted to come up (QuarterMaster's TO etc). WA forums, here I come!
I will make sure I send you out an e-peen invite shortly :)
Kirby has gained facepalming moments that's for sure ^^.
Kirby has yet to come and play a game against the might of Taak as well! :p
@fester, I could read over what I read but I posted at 2am my time on bugger all sleep and that is borderline breaking my rule of NEVER POST AROUND 3 OR LATER EARLY IN THE MORNINGW ITH NO SLEEP. I tend to piss everyone off. Hence probable missing of the sarcasm.
That said, what's the link to the WA WAU forums equivalent. I had a bunch of people tell me they'd love me on those forums in the 2 weeks of posting as Taak (:p) on WAU before the ban on WAU, but I never found the link and am lazy. Yep, lazy. :p
www.Westgamer.com I think.
I cant get to WGAU while @ work (for good reason :P ) but a quick google turned up that.
As a side note, has your other user accound got nuked yet?
Oh, and you didn't offend me, I just thought you were a tool :P
I'm sure you will confir... err... change that outlook when we get to meet @ Centurion :D
See here for Stelek's thoughs on this topic.
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/08/tournament-thoughts.html
If I must. =D
You must.
I am glad you are learning your place.
Soon this will be my Pink Army muhahahaha!
:D
You can have them! Bunch of whiney babies =D.
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babies Kirby, jeez get it right, just because you're daunted standing in my shadow, lololol! :D
So, now I'm registered to westgamer.com too heh. Oh and being a Tool? That gives me e-peen apparently. :p
aren't you short or something?
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