"Kirby,
Greetings! Recently a friend asked if I'd mind playing against an Ork Dread Mob army using the Imperial Armor IA8 rules. I'm assuming this army will consist of Big Meks, Mega Dreds, Kans, Dreds etc. I've never faced this am not entirely sure what to expect. I think it'll be a blast to play against and wouldn't mind being semi-prepared.
I've been running the 1500pt Blood Angels JP list posted here. It's been working out very well so far. I've also tried BloodHammer and a few hybrid lists using Baals and Dakka Preds.
Do you have any advice on what Blood Angel units would be the most effective against an Ork Dread Mob? Would mind offering up a list?
Thanks!
Rho"
Hey Rho. I don't know all the rules of the Dread Mob because I don't have IA8 :P. I'll post this and hopefully others will be able to give you a better idea but from my understanding it seems to make Orks a lot more mech based backed by Dreads? If this is the case, as against most armies you want to minimise their movement potential by taking out their tanks first but if you're using a pure Jumpers army, make sure you either avoid the Dreads or take them out before they can assault you. I'll leave the more specific tactics to others who have read the book (looking at you Juggler and Roland!) but I the Blood Hammer or Jumper lists work fine as balanced lists so shouldn't have too much trouble against Dread Mob unless they are unbalanced (and I've heard they are pretty good for an IA book). Otherwise we'd be tailoring!
So anyone have any more specific advice for Rho? What can one expectin a 1500 Dread Mob list and what needs to drop first?
13 pinkments:
Accurately deepstriking meltagunners.
Case closed.
Ork vehicles (and especially squadrons) also hate mid-strength accurate fire, so Dakka Preds and Riflemen Dreads are excellent tools against them.
A pure jumpers list wants to be using melta, as VT2 says. You should easily be able to drop in and eliminate nearby threats, picking him apart piecemeal. Orks really can't deal with FC FNP MEQs assaulting them.
Dakka Preds meaning AC/HBs? I've got a few of those. I don't have any Dreads yet, but am hearing good things about Auto Dreads. I'll see if I can can get my hands on some.
How about Baals with AC/HB outflanking? Will this bring them too close?
Or if I were to go all JP, is it a good idea to DS everything and try and get the VV into assault ASAP?
Rifleman dread = 2xlinked autocannon dread.
Dakka pred = predator with autocannon and heavy bolters, aka 'destructor pattern.'
Autolas = predator with autocannon and lascannon sponsons.
Lasboat, trilas = predator with linked lascannon and lascannon sponsons, aka 'annihilator pattern.'
If you outflank or scout your predator into the opponent's lines, you're telling them it's okay to melta/charge you to death.
It's not really recommended, since they cost quite a lot too much to throw away.
You don't need to charge dreads with blood angels, because you get 2 or more meltaweapons in every unit with jump packs.
Drop close, slag the walkers, and take the charge from their puny infantry.
Kirby, you rang?
@ Rho, gimme a day to read through my IA:8 again so I can tear apart more indepth the pros/cons of a Dread Mob. As is, I'm well versed on Elysians, not so much those pesky Orkses
@Rhod
Correct on your guesses there.
Outflanking isn't really worth it because it doesn't gain you anything- you can already get as close as you please with Scout + 1st turn move.
Baal Preds are a perfectly fine unit, but you need to pair them up with a bunch of friends and have your army mostly be moving 12" each turn, a la Eldar.
When you're all-jumpers, bringing everything in from deep strike is generally the plan, yes. However, always remember that you don't HAVE to do this- sometimes you can use that 12" move to get up close and personal with someone who deployed badly and get the second-turn charge on them after weathering minimal fire. VV should be brought in aggressively (see the excellent guest article done a while back mathhammering the "ideal" distance) to deal with things that will shoot you up badly, like Devastators/Long Fangs, Lootas, etc.
watch out for the 5+ invulnerable save on the mega-dreds. its not much, but things like that can be a shocker if you're not aware of them.
Thanks you for the replies. I'll put a list together and post here for review. I may just go with my jumper list, but am thinking ML Devs or the Dakka Preds in place of the VV.
H'okay here we go, my long and skinny look at Ork Dred Mobz
HQ:
Buzzgob is the best chance he has to get LD9 in the army, and he does get pretty nasty in CC. The ability to take a Kustom Stompa is nice, but that just jacks up his overall cost. Overall though, he's not worth the points. Same goes for the Kustom-Meka Dred. The Meka Dread gets a half decent AT weapon (the Shunta) and has good AV overall (plus a built in 5+ Invuln), but BS2 and no LD is piss poor and for the price you pay for one of these guys, you'd want something more reliable. Most likely he'll take 1 Big Mek with a KFF, though having 2 is more likely as he'll have a wider KFF protection range. He'll most likely put these guys in a Scrapp Trukk and run them behind the Kan Wall. Lastly, the Pain Doc is a decent choice and allows one unit of Spanna Boys (the main Troop Choices) to take Cybork bodies for cheap. On the whole though, the Doc isn't worth it as a Mek wielding KFF will give these guys the same Invuln so long as they're in range.
Summary: Expect 2 Big Mek's with KFF
Elites:
First choice up is Burna Boyz and they probably are the most solid Elites choice available to the Dred Mobb. You can upgrade three of these guys to Meks which is a bonus and they come standard with a nice AP weapon, which can double as a weak AT one in a pinch. Stick a Mek in with 11 Boyz and load them in a Scrapp Trukk and you got a nice little assault unit. Alternatively (and this nasty Kombo I just saw), buy a Junka and load 10 Burnaz in it and pimp it out with 3X Twin Rokkit Launchas (or Kustom Mega Blastas) and have them drive around blowing stuff up and assaulting the soft insides. OR (my favorite) get 6 Burnas (3 of which are Meks), buy a Junka and give it a KFF and have them go inside and roll around as a mobile assault / invuln bunker. This would actually allow more KFF coverage in the army.
Seeing as I mentioned Junkas, I'll say they are probably the second best Elites choice in the Dred Mobb for the sole reason it can have a KFF. With Dred Mobbz having that extra Invuln save is key, as it gives your Dreds more time to close the gap and kill the enemy. Junkas are fairly cheap to start out with, and the ability to customize the weapons on it does bring the cost up...example a Junka with 3X Twin Rokkit Launches is 110pts. Add in a KFF and it's just under 200pts. If you go with 1X Pain Doc in the Army, then you'll definitely need at least 1 of these guys to assist in the KFF coverage.
The last Elite unit, Cybork Slashas, are worthless. They have a cool little rule, but overall they're just Spanna Boyz with the Cybork Body upgrade already included. If he's smart, he'll skip them.
Troops:
Spanna Boyz are the first Troops choice and are a mandatory 1+, so expect at LEAST one of these guys. They can take a Scrapp Trukk as a dedicated transport and one of them can be upgraded to a Mek. Nothing too special here. Next we have Gretchin Scavanger Mobz, which are a fun/fluffy and hilarious unit, but overall not that scary. Heck, they end up killing themselves with their Offensive and Defensive Grenades.
Finally we go the bread and butter of the Mobb list...the Deff Dreads! They come in groups of 1-3 and expect them to cost around 90-100pts a pop. They're like Dreadnoughts, only with less I, but for the cost, they're definitely worth it (you're looking at getting 2 on average for every SM Dread). If he's running a pure Dread list, expect to see a lot of these.
Ok! Fast attacks and Heavy..
Fast Attack:
Deffkoptas - same as Codex Orkz, nothing new. Warkoptas - Valkyries for Orkz! Only they're open topped so die easily enough. Weapons options are alright and for around 90pts you can get a kopta that has some ok AT ability. I wouldn't expect too many of these as...
Killa Kan Attack Mob! - If he's running a pure list, these guys'll show up in mass. They're cheap, come in groups of 3-5, and can be given a Rokkit Launcha for cheap. 250pts gets you 5 all armed with a Rokkit Launcha. Dreads (with slightly lower AV) + large numbers + Mass Rokkits = ability to torrent of fire vehicles and chop them up later in assault.
Finally we have the Grot Tank Battle Mob - funny and fluffy unit, but takes away from the whole Dread mob theme. Cheap, but with weak Armor, these guys die to bolters.
Heavy:
Mega-Dread - Finally! A unit like SM Dreads. He's basically an Ironclad, and costs about the same. The Rippa Klaw is nice (think Ork Seismic Hammer), has an inbuilt Invuln & can get solid AT with Rokkit Launchas or Blastas (thats in addition to it's Killkannon). Personally, if I knew I had a lot of AT already in the list (what with all the Rokkits flying around) I'd give this guy 2X Skorchas and have him take out troops and hordes. Otherwise, 2X Rokkits is the way to go.
Loota Mob and Looted Wagon - same as Codex. Just as Lootas aren't great normally, they don't work in this army which is always moving forward.
Lifta Wagon - Quirky, fun tank with a solid weapon, I'd expect to see one of these. If he goes Hybrid Mobb he may have more, but more than likely he'll have Dreadz. The Lifta-Droppa can really jack up Mech armies, especially if the opponent puts his vehicles close by. This awesomeness comes at a price. They'll run him the cost of a LR.
Big Trakk - it's a Predator for Orkz, but comes in 30pts cheaper on average. Upside it has built in Dozer Blades.
Ok! So what's this mean?
Expect to see 1, probably 2 Big Mekks with KFF's to give the army a wider invuln bubble. I'd expect to see 1 Burna Squad and 2 Junkas, and 2 cheap Spanna squads (one will probably have a Scrapp Trukk, the other won't have a dedicated Transport but will ride in a Junka). Otherwise I'd expect 2-3 Deff Dread Mobz, 2-3 Kill Kanz Mobz, 1-2 Mega-Dreads, and a Lifta Wagon. This army will have 4 KFF's to spread out the Invuln love alllll around. That means all his guys are much more survivable and will certainly close the gap on you. So..
HQ: 1X Big Mekk, 1X KFF's, 1X PK's, 1X Ammo Runtz, 1X Bosspoles, 1X Shoota/Skorcha, 1X Grot Oilers: 128
Elites:
5 Boyz - 3X Meks, 3X Grot Oilers: 90
Junka - Red Paint, 2X Twin Rokkit Launchas, 1X Rokkit Launcha, KFF Generator, Deff Rolla: 180
Junka - Red Paint, 2X Twin Rokkit Launchas, 1X Rokkit Launcha, KFF Generator, Deff Rolla: 180
Troops:
Spanna Boyz - 11 Boyz (one of the Meks goes here), Scrapp Trukk: 101
2X Deff Dreads - 2X Grot Riggers, 2X Rokkit Launchas - 190
2X Deff Dreads - 2X Grot Riggers, 2X Rokkit Launchas - 190
FA:
2X Kanz - 2X Rokkits, 2X Grot Riggerz: 165
2X Kanz - 2X Rokkits, 2X Grot Riggerz: 165
Heavy:
Mega-Dread - 2X Skorchaz, Grot Riggers - 180
Mega-Dread - 2X Skorchaz, Grot Riggers - 180
Lifta Wagon - 2X Rokkit Launchas - 245
Total: 1994
Three KFF bubbles, Two Nasty suvivable dreads,10 Kanz total. It's not a lot of Kannage for a Dread list, and light on Boyz, but it can survive some hefty firepower and close in in CC. Stuff like the above is what you can expect from your friend.
Hope this helps!
And I realized my rough shod list is actually slightly illegal, what with the Killa Kanz and all.
Just make the 2 groups of 2, into 1 group of 4 and voila!
Grot Riggers in squadron?
Post a Comment