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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
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"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him


Saturday, September 11, 2010

BroLo isn't Dead! A List for Squally

BroLo isn't dead... w00t!

Sorry for being away for a while, I'm sure you missed me?? No? Oh well!

Anyway, I've had a couple of e-mails (one via Kirbmeister General) about BT lists that I'll be posting over the next 24 hours, so if you like this one, make sure you return shortly for number 2. If you don't, well I can only apologise for ruining you blog Kirby.

So I got this e-mail from Squally160 after having an e-chat with him (see 3++ chatango - it's good fun and you can post as an 'anon' if you have a question).


HEADQUARTERS

140 points - Emp Champ, Accept Any Challenge

110 Points - Commander, Termie honors, storm bolter, power weapon

214 Points - Command Squad, 4 models, Champion, Counter attack, Termie

Honors, Power Fist, Tele Homer, Drop Pod

ELITES

130 Points - Dread, Multi Melta, Flamer, Extra Armor,

138 Points - Dread, Las, Missile, Smoke

265 Points - Terminators, 6 models, Chainfist, Assault Cannon,

TROOPS

106 Points - Crusader Squad, 5 Models, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun

106 Points - Crusader Squad, 5 Models, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun

185 Points - Crusader Squad, 10 Models, Power Fist + Bolt Pistol,

Meltagun, 8x CCW + Bolt Pistol

185 Points - Crusader Squad, 10 Models, Power Fist + Bolt Pistol,

Meltagun, 8x CCW + Bolt Pistol

58 Points - Rhino, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

98 Points - Razorback, Twin Las, Smoke Launchers, Extra Armor

265 Points - Land Raider Crusader

2000 Points


That is my current, unplayed list. It was built using just what i had, so i am pretty sure it can be re-tooled to be more efficient. The basic jist is i drop pod my command squad turn 1 into enemy backlines, and hope my termies can deep strike soon after near the tele homer back there. Hopefully, causing enough issues turn 1 to get my LRC w/ the 10 man squad and EC up close into the frontlines, and causing some trouble. The other 10 man, in the rhino, can eitehr flank or follow the LRC, while to two plasma squads sit back and hopefully pick off some tougher models or light armor stuff.

This is kind of the playstyle i like, a single pronged, tough melee attack supported by enough backline shooting to get there. How effective is it, is yet to be seen however :/. Some of the main issues tho, are the LRC is a giant points sink, that screams"shoot me" to anyone with a lascannon or meltagun. The melta dread can be hard to get into effective range, but putting him in a pod means i have to let the dice gods decide when he joins the fray, which can be very tough when im also hoping my termies will be striking as well.

I am not sure where to go tho, maybe scrap the termies entirely, drop a dread, and get a pair of landspeeders, another rhino, and turn a plasma squad into another CCW grind mob.

Who knows, maybe someone with a better grasp of the strengths of the

BT codex could enlighten me :)

So, for anybody not well versed in the BT codex, the EC will give the entire force preferred enemy and the Commander is a Castellan who gives everybody Ld 9 whilst on the field and has to run with the command squad.

First of all, your tactics have a flaw. BT do not have the drop pod assault special rule so automatically go into regular ol' reserve, which means your command squad will not be showing up first turn. This then means they also won't necessarily come in before the terminators, so the teleport homer may not be of benefit.

Let's look at the list

140 points - Emp Champ, Accept Any Challenge

Bread and butter, what can I say? (Note: Before MoD comes and links a thousand blogs, I just want to say - other vows are viable, but they're more jam-roly-poly than bread and butter.)

110 Points - Commander, Termie honors, storm bolter, power weapon

214 Points - Command Squad, 4 models, Champion, Counter attack, Termie Honors, Power Fist, Tele Homer, Drop Pod

Hmm... this is where the trouble starts. Castellans are okay when they're cheap CC monsters, but remember, no Eternal Warrior, no invulnerable save and the thought of dropping him into your opponents lap means he will not be around for long. The command squad is also not the best. Command squads are the only option in the codex that can take useful double melta and I can't think of a reason why you'd ever not make the most of it. I think you're also trying to make them CC beasts (with the champ, the fist and the attached Castellan) but unfortunately these guys just don't cut the mustard - 3+ save, no invulnerable, not enough power weapons and most importantly too many points - 350+ wow! There are better and cheaper ways to scare the bejeebies out of your opponent and they involve double melta or assault terminators

130 Points - Dread, Multi Melta, Flamer, Extra Armor,

138 Points - Dread, Las, Missile, Smoke

This is an unconventional lay out for dreads, but by no means a wrong one. But I'd change things up a bit. Las misssile dreads are great support units for BT, especially when made Venerable and a Tank Hunter. Not sure about the smoke launchers, unless you're concerned about being shot at when your stunned. If your opponent does this he's not putting high strength weapons into other important stuff, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. The MM dread on the other hand is crying out for smoke. It is unlikely he'll be shooting first turn and therefore popping smoke will be most beneficial for this dude. Stelek has done lists with mixed dreads, but then DCCW ones were assault cannon based and were in a 'sit back and munch anything that comes close' role.

265 Points - Terminators, 6 models, Chainfist, Assault Cannon

Make the most of being able to take 2 assault cannons and tank hunters. What more can I say?

106 Points - Crusader Squad, 5 Models, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun

106 Points - Crusader Squad, 5 Models, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun

185 Points - Crusader Squad, 10 Models, Power Fist + Bolt Pistol,

Meltagun, 8x CCW + Bolt Pistol

185 Points - Crusader Squad, 10 Models, Power Fist + Bolt Pistol,

Meltagun, 8x CCW + Bolt Pistol

58 Points - Rhino, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers

98 Points - Razorback, Twin Las, Smoke Launchers, Extra Armor

265 Points - Land Raider Crusader

Well... this has just confuzeled me! Do the 8 man squads run in the rhino and the LRC and one of the 6 man squads own the lazorback? An 8-man squad in an LRC seems odd to me. Doesn't really pack a mean punch and the transport can't really offer a ranged support role so it seems a bit of a mismatch. For the ranged support squads I'd personally go for lascannon/plasma gun if at all possible.

So what does the list offer...

1 AV14, 2 AV12, 2 AV 11 and an AV12 pod. This doesn't really saturate anybody's anti-tank fire and the AV14 doesn't really threaten enough for your opponent to be overly concerned about it - blocking FTW!

At range - 2 plasmacannons, 2 twin-linked lascannons and a missile launcher (can only go at 4 different targets).

Mid-range - 1 MM, 2 plasma guns, 1 assault cannon.

Up close and personal - 2 meltaguns.

Well that's not really going to scare anybody really.

BroLo, stop being harsh, Squally said this is a 'friendly' list! (says BroLo's inner-conscience)

Apologies!

You know what, this is exactly how I started my collection (first army getting back into 40k), just buying random bits and pieces.

Let's see if we can turn your collection around with minimal effort and cost.

So it appears to me you fancy a mech force with a bit of a difference (the drop pod) and perhaps a bit of fluffiness (command squad)? Would I be correct? You said you liked a single pronged attack with fire support, so let's try and see what we can do.

So, here we go...

Emperor's Champion - Accept any Challenge - 140

Castellan - Termie Armour, Pair of Lightning claws - 120

Termie Command Squad (4) - Assault cannon x 2, Tank hunters - Drop pod - 245

Dread - Twin-Linked Lascannon/Missile Launcher - 135

Dread - Twin-Linked Lascannon/Missile Launcher - 135

Dread - Multi-melta, DCCW - Drop pod - 145

Crusader Squad (5) - Lascannon, flamer - 100

Crusader Squad (5) - Lasccanon - 95

Crusader Squad (5) - Power fist, meltagun - 105

Razorback - Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter - 70

Crusader Squad (5) - Power fist, meltagun - 105

Razorback - Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter - 70

Crusader Squad (5) - Power fist, Meltagun - Drop pod - 135 [with EC]

Land Speeder - MM/HF - 75

Land Speeder - MM/HF - 75

Predator Destructor - Lascannon Sponsons - 125

Predator Destructor - Lascannon Sponsons - 125

2000

There... I know I removed the Land Raider, but without assault terminators, I don't really see the point to be honest. It's not anywhere close to being 'optimised', but includes lots of 'fun' elements. The single pronged attack comes from the deep-strikers. All of which want to be in the same place - in your face! If by some miracle they all come in on the same turn, shake your opponents hand and say thank you very much! If not you have a few threats to last a few turns.

See the 'cornering' article to see how the list works. Each corner packs 3 Lascannons, an autocannon, a twin-linked lascannon, a missile launcher and a twin-linked heavy bolter. If your opponent fancies approaching, the dread and the razorback squad don't mind getting dirty.

You have 3 MM dropping into your opponents lap, the Castellan's command squad, which will tear through rear armour (8 str6+1 and 4 str4 +1 shots = *boner/heart* (bloggerfail))

Like I said, it's not truly optimised, but I hope it takes some of your concepts a little further. You only really need a couple of speeders and a couple of preds to make the list I think (except a tiny bit of converting) and I personally think they're essentials for any BT force, so it's not money wasted.

Thoughts anybody?

8 pinkments:

Wallshammer said...

Goddamn, that dread is dope.

Fuklaw said...

Ok, here's a quick list I've pieced together for Squally160.



1 Emperor's Champion
Accept any Challenge

1 Marshal (HQ)
Iron Halo; Lightning Claws (x2)
#Crusader Seals
Terminator Honours

1 Grey Knight Brother-Captain (HQ)
Nemesis Force Halberd
#Terminator Armour [0]
Psychic Hood [20]

6 Swd. Brth. Terminator Assault Squad (Elites)
Thunder Hm. & Storm Sh. (x2); Two Lightning Claws (x4); Furious Charge
1 Land Raider 'Crusader' @ [268] Pts
Smoke Launchers;


10 Crusader Squad (Troops)
Bolt Pistol & CCW; Power Fist; Meltagun
4 Neophytes
Bolt Pistol & CCW
1 Land Raider 'Crusader'
Smoke Launchers;


7 Crusader Squad (Troops)
BP + CCW; Power Fist; Meltagun
2 Neophytes
Bolt Pistol & CCW
1 Rhino
Smoke Launchers; Extra Armour;

7 Crusader Squad (Troops)
BP + CCW; Power Fist; Meltagun
2 Neophytes
Bolt Pistol & CCW
1 Rhino @ [58] Pts
Smoke Launchers; Extra Armour;


1 Land Speeder Tornado (Fast)
Multi-Melta; Heavy Flamer


1 Land Speeder Tornado (Fast)
Multi-Melta; Heavy Flamer

Models in Army: 55


Total Army Cost: 2000


Now the explanation:

GK is here for some psychic defense, he rides with the termies on the Crusader (not that the termies need an extra punch).

EC and marshal will each pick one of the crusader squads available to add the extra punch they need in CC (I'd personally put the with the rhino squads as the LRC has numbers in its favour).

Notice that there are no heavy choices, but who needs them when you have 4 MM and 3 meltas on the move.

I could keep explaining but I'll let you all analyse the list and comment if you so wish.

Marshal Wilhelm said...

What's a BroLo?

I asked Kirby this question, but maybe he was hanging out with Jigglypuff and couldn't answer.
We all know about the dreaded MM Rhino squad, with special weapon to taste.
Also the LasBack LC squad in the back court, preferably with flamer ;)

How about a midfield hold squad, naturally in a Rhino, with PC & Pg.
Presumably all those MMs we keep bringing are actually destroying vehicles. What about a shooty squad [well, shooty for Crusaders....] that focuses on MEq?
Outside of the outrageously good, gut your TWC, Mr Spacewolf player, with FC Assault Terms, Templars bring a serious lack of ap2/power weapons. Could this be a solution?
Plasma is okay against AV 10/11, so helps against non-MEq Mech and is decent against mid or big Nids....
Thoughts?

+++

That is a lot of LC, ML, AutoC, AssC being brought. Nice.

How about dropping the LC squad and giving all the vehicles Smoke and Extra armour. Ours is so good for so little cost, and when you think of our Rhinos and Razor being overpriced, I think it is a neat way to claim back some of that initial inflation.
You can also give the MM Dread a HFlamer and one of the Razors gets tlLC
I think that leaves 9 pts over....

Brother Loring said...

Wallshammer - Hear hear!

Marshal Wilhelm - I personally think that would defeat the object of the list. The LC squad are probably the most resilient (can't get shaken) and will likely be sat in cover so should always get a 4+ save. Although extra armour and smoke launchers are good, they're good in a different way. They're great on LRs and advancing rhinos as you want to keep them moving, but none of them can prevent me from losing my shooting. Being able to move around a bit on the turn I can't shoot is nice, but not sure if it's worth losing another lascannon shot and another scoring unit. It's only claiming points back if you want them. If you don't you're just using up more points.

If the dread's still alive on the turn in which he can use a flamer I'd be happy and in reality I'd be just as happy for him to assault said unit and lock them up.

With regards to the PC/PG bunker, I'm not sure. I'm not sure why they'd sit in midfield with a 36" Plasma Cannon, but I haven't play-tested it, so not sure really. I'm not a hug fan of plasma cannons to be honest, I tend not to have a huge problem tackling marines or terminators to be honest - torrent tends to mop-up what the termies leave behind (if anything at all). A pair of them may be a concern for marine players, but the bunkers only need to be stunned/shaken to be adequately 'dealt' with.

Maybe Kirby will add something to the equation after he's finished fondling with Jigglypuff??

Brother Loring said...

Fuklaw - Sorry... you're comment has only just appeared!

First of all... see the up-coming post in about 12 hours, somebody else has similar ideas to yourself. I avoided taking this list in the 2 LR direction for reasons you will soon see.

The Brother Captain is by far the cheapest and best way to achieve some psy defence for Templars IMO, but I'm personally bit of a purest and keep my Templars just that.

"Notice that there are no heavy choices, but who needs them when you have 4 MM and 3 meltas on the move."

No heavy support pretty much means no support. The speeders can only do so much and without target saturation, they will not last long.

BT LRCs can't shoot when moving 12" (old PotMS), so you don't have 2 of the MM 'on the move' and one crusader squad can't shoot it's melta out of the LRC, so no luck there. Not mentioning the other crusader squads not being able to shoot when they move 12". You are moving 12" on the first 2 turns with this list right??

At 2K people should not have any problems opening up 2 Land Raiders and you therefore need a good deal of support to keep them going and something to finish the game strong with. When your beat-face units have had their faces beaten, this list doesn't really have anywhere to go. It has a good number of bodies, but lacks the roundedness you need at 2K. I think Kirby's 1750 Thunderbubble list would give this a run for it's money sadly.

Marshal Laeroth said...

Well, the list isn't optimized as Brother Loring mentions, but it should do well enough. He covered most of the main issues I had with the original list. :)

Kirby said...

Fuklaw's post got shafted to the spam section...had to rescue it lol.

Squally! said...

schweet list, now to just pick up a few of the missing models xD

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