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Friday, October 29, 2010

Why firewarriors are such utter fail

Two initial things. These are facts, and only a handful of warseers, dakkaits, and BALSers dare disagree.

Cost: a squad of twelve is almost as much as two suits with plasma and missiles. It's 120 points for the warriors, versus 124 for the crisis team.

One-dimensional: Firewarriors only ever shoot. They don't move, run, redeploy, flank, contest, do combat, or disrupt. Their shooting is ineffective against everything except light infantry, and even a 4+ save of some kind makes the squad impotent.

Yet, forumgoers still say new players should build their armies around 'fire teams.' This angers me.
As any troll will tell you, stupid people don't answer to smart comments, so it's necessary to sink to their level before you can defeat them.

In other words, time for mathhammer.
Twelve firewarriors equal 12 shots. Obvious, yes? This is 120 points, too. Also obvious.
Since all their stats are horrible, it made perfect sense to give them a mighty ballisticskill of 3. This means 6 of those 12 shots hit. Very, very obvious - as mathhammer always is.
Now, say we're shooting at marines, you'll wound with 2/3's of those 6, so 4.
Marines have power armor, which - according to mathhammer - blocks 2/3's of all damage done.
In conclusion, your 12 firewarriors pump out enough dakka to drop ONE! marine.

Yeah, that's some great value you're getting out of those 120 points. I'm so happy 'veterans' are telling people they need a 'core' of firewarriors to 'carry the bulk of the heavy lifting.'

When something's so bad not even mathhammer can make it look good, you know you're dealing with the very worst of all 'specialist units.'
Now that all the little warseers are enraged, it's time for the meat.

Firewarriors are useless. Utterly useless.
Each team you take is a minimum of 60 points. Add 4 more, and you can buy an additional plasma/missile crisis. 10 more, you can splash on a grand total of ten extra kroot. 60 points is almost enough to pay for an unblinged broadside, or half of an ionhead.
The mathhammer above doesn't even begin to describe their uselessness. You see, most people stuff them in transports, so the 120 point squads rarely get to fire more than once a game, and are never cheaper than 200 points.

Yes, you need troops - after all, we're playing 5th edition, right? Yes, we indeed are, but - and this is where it gets tricky for seals on forums - 5th edition isn't about massed troops. It's about taking and holding things. You need to hold one, and contest all others.
Only troops can hold, but everything else can contest.

This means you don't need to take a billion points worth of firewarriors and devilfish.
It's enough if you have the mandatory 6 dudes stuck at homebase, camping your one objective, while the rest of your army moves out and contests the remaining objectives, or shoots the enemy to pieces.

"But where will the dakka come from if I don't have firewarriors? You gotta have firewarriors and warfishes! How can you win if you don't have firepower!?" Alright, I'll bite.

Here's my 'base' army.

Junior commander: fireknife setup - 87
2 bodyguards: fireknife setups, 2 targeting arrays, blacksun - 167

Junior commander: fireknife setup - 87
2 bodyguards: fireknife setups, 2 targeting arrays, blacksun - 167

2 crisis suits: fireknife setups, teamleader - 129

2 crisis suits: fireknife setups, teamleader - 129

2 crisis suits: fireknife setups, teamleader - 129

6 firewarriors - 60
10 kroot - 70
10 kroot - 70

6 pathfinders: devilfish; smart missile system, vehicle multi-tracker, disruption pod, targeting array - 192

Hammerhead: railgun, burstcannons, vehicle target lock, vehicle multi-tracker, disruption pod - 170
Hammerhead: railgun
, burstcannons, vehicle target lock, vehicle multi-tracker, disruption pod - 170
Hammerhead: railgun, burstcannons, vehicle target lock, vehicle multi-tracker, disruption pod - 170


This is a '2000 points' list, which isn't really at 2k. Sometimes, I switch in drones, blacksuns (not to be confused with purple suns) for purposes other than wound-allocation, or 'specialist units' (vespid, shapers, carbine warriors) for the hell of it, or cut out things to fit into lower points limits. It's far from 'the best,' and nowhere near optimal.
Years ago, I ripped the mixed guns of my suit armada, and organized them as above. This came about because I was convinced the forums were all wrong, and there was more to the codex than their tactica threads and so called 'experts' told me.
Since then, I've not lost a single objective-focused game. How does that work? I only have three troops, and tons of small, fragile squads, after all.

Easy.
When the opponent's units are all either dead or dying, he can't contest or capture anything.
Tau are damage dealers - not tanks or campers. Play to your book's strengths, and ignore the forumitis that surrounds this codex.

A standard 'fish of fury' team consists of twelve warriors aboard a devilfish. With all the common upgrades for the transport, this is 235 points minimum.
235 points for 12 guys that die when they dismount, ridin' dirty in a transport that doesn't want to get close to the enemy, yet has range 24 guns at best.

To nail the point home, my 'command squads' are 254 points each. Why are you taking the fish of fury again?

Comments (56)

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Please excuse my ignorance, what is a Fireknife setup?

Love this blog by the way, it's like YTTH without all the complaining and demeaning responses. Keep up the great work!

-Goresmack
3 replies · active 754 weeks ago
Don't let Stelek hear you say that *eyeroll.*

Fireknife = plasma rifle, missile pod, multi-tracker
Kirby's right. Fun fluff fact, that actually comes from the codex, mentioning it's the most common setup. Apparently the race and the writer aren't as silly as their players.
I meant the "like YTTH" comment.
Here's a better nail the point home. A PR/MP squad is 186 points compared to a Warfish squad. 120 points of Shuriken Cannon upgrades on Eldar tanks mathammer 5 MEQ deaths (and people still don't take them!?!?!?).

Now go finish your Tyranid articles :P.
4 replies · active 753 weeks ago
Yes, masa.

=P
"Massa" has two s's in it, get your racist stereotypes right.

(Gah! That looks horrible? How in the world are you supposed to pluralize a letter?)
Damn it.
Foiled by the power of proper spelling!
Massa is an F1 driver; jeez people.
Jackelope King's avatar

Jackelope King · 754 weeks ago

Maybe they'll fix Fire Warriors in a new Tau Codex. Maybe. I'd like them to. I like the models.

In my little dream-world, the new Tau Codex becomes all about markerlights from different sources. Units process them with different types of drones (bought as wargear) to gain the different markerlight benefits. After what they've done with pain tokens for the Dark Eldar, I'm really hopeful that they can do it right.
I understand and agree with your post. However, I would just like to observe that your main contention lies in "Why spend these points, when you can get X for the same amount?" Would Firewarriors be less 'fail' if they cost 7 points instead? If devilfish came in at 55? What would make them worth it?
5 replies · active 754 weeks ago
If they were 8 points, and brought the tools needed to accompish something, plus got a leadership boost, PLUS had cheaper transports, that weren't stuck with range 24 guns at best, they'd be worth it.
The way things stand, you never, ever want to take more than 6.

If the 'sergeant' could buy two drones with battlesuit guns, the unit would be much more flexible and useful.
Drones: Both VT and I want Flamer drones (VT wont settle for anything less then heavy flamers, I think TL-Flamers would be awesome enough). Beyond that, Rail Rifles might work out well, as would Plasma Rifles (note BS 3 at best with these). I'd say for now, the best we can expect is Flamers, Rail Rifles, and some cool versions of suit guns (maybe with suit guns themselves increasing in power).

The main things that would be nice: Shas'ui standard (higher LD), some sort of movement during your assault phase, and cheaper Fish (along with a dedicated transport option).
Knowing karma, someone at GW will read this comment and do everything you suggest, but forget to make the drones higher than BS2. Nothing says shooty army than having all of your heavy guns wielded by orks!
So basically, IG Vet Squads?

I'd actually be okay with just the standard 4 drones, assuming they too had an appropriate point alteration. Although the more I think about it, the more I like battlesuit options, as it might potentially free up elite slots for something else.
Which is really the whole point.
Obviously, firewarriors will never be given BS4, strength 6 guns, that are heavy 3, and AP3, so flexibility is the name of the game.

With battlesuit-armed drones, fire teams can actually work alongside whatever crisis teams you bring, and somewhat fend for themselves, too.
It also gets around the whole 'tau infantry never carries special guns.'
not to nick pick VT2 but they have 30 inch range = P
but i think the reason most people take firewarriors is true, like you said, there supposed to be "killy" but also for the protection a devilfish provides with a DP. they bring mobile firepower to the field, are somewhat difficult to kill (compared to most tau units...) and provide extra armor spam. I still wouldn't take a warfish with anymore than 6 fw s
also, another setup i've seen is 6fw, ui w/ML, DC w/2 marker drones @140 pts i think. inefficient way to put marker lights in an army, but it makes that objective sitter squad somewhat useful. wouldn't take it personally either
what you say about their killyness is true, pt for pt they are inefficient and pathetic, but i still don't like the idea of having a "worthless" squad that is required 1+ (lol, 6 man EMP suicide squad anyone?)
3 replies · active 754 weeks ago
30 inch range is nothing.
It was great back when heavy bolters cost 10 to 15 points for units that could take a single one. These days, they're available on everything for free or very low points - even heavy weapon dudes. 5 points on long fangs? Yes, please.

Besides, this is 5th edition. Infantry on foot just dies.
Putting those 'range 30' guns inside the fish kinda defeats the point people always try to make, too. When your masterplan hangs on driving your shootng unit towards the opponent's knives, you need to rethink what you're doing - 'specially when the unit in question is 235 points.
Agreed. And don't forget the armored hull you're hauling them around with has a 18-24" range. As far as difficult to kill goes, suits are in power/artificer armor and sometimes have multiple wounds! Not to mention their 6" run away move.
Allowing your one objective unit to sit around out of their protective transport with T3 is begging for them to die. Any decent player will run in and start throwing out firepower against them, and the best they can get is a 4+ cover, maybe. The 6 get to sit in a Fish for a damn good reason, because Tau are squishy as hell, and while it'd be nice to be able to bling them a bit, I can always bling out Fireknives as points go up (and get a better commander, upgrade my current one, the list goes on).
yeah dude, the 30 inch range is nothing, not arguing that :) i just love pointing it out cuz its one of the most obscure weapon ranges in the game. but you can get a fully kitted out warfish plus 6 fws for 175, which is still stupidly expensive, but it makes it worth something, and people tend to dislike a gun that can hit what it can't see :) great little toy against assassins, may not kill it, but scares em at least.
most often though, i just take a 6 man squad on foot, park it on my objective and have it pray. sometimes though, i like to fully mech up for kicks. and for some reason, most people like to go after them instead of the kroot going to ground. thats why i keep a flechette launcher. another not so effective but scary tool

fyi, i think the warfish is a great way to make the pathfinder fish actually useful. plus said flechette launcher for decoying
1 reply · active 754 weeks ago
It's more like this: Ok, I've taken Pathfinders because they're option, and now I have to eat this free frogurt. SMS for 10 points? Don't mind if I do. Disruption Pod? Of course. Targetting array? If I have the points. Multitracker? SMS w/ 12" move is nice. Yes it's expensive, but paying for the upgrades gives the Fish a point, and they aren't too expensive for what they give.

Flechette Launcher: Nice enough if you get assaulted a ton, but may not be worth the points. Probably better on Piranha squads, just to fuck with units assaulting in (or as a big middle finger vs. Orks).
I get the hold one objective, contest the others idea. However most Australian tournaments (that I've played in at least) require you to hold several objectives to receive a major victory. Holding just one more than your opponent only provides a minor win. What's your answer to this problem?
2 replies · active 753 weeks ago
The time-tested way tau worked in 4th edition.
Table the opponent or lose.
Don't play Battle Point missions which reward some armies and not others ^^?
You dont have to table them, and thats from someone who has won objective based missions in 5th in australian tournaments, against infantry heavy armies. You just use your Kroot effectively. Last tourney (QM3) I used one of my kroot screens as a screen, and kept the other largley intact. Its amazing how efficient, if you place your 2 objectives correctly, a line of 17 mini's can be at holding 2 x objectives. Pure profit.

Changes to fire warriors? They wont get heavy weapons, not in fluff. What would be more realistic? Extended rifle range (18" rapid fire and 36" single shot respectively) and Assault 2 Carbines, with no range change. The first supports the firebase, the second supports some mobility.
Aside from that? Points drop, to about 7pts per model, photon grenades as standard, and a drop in cost to the marker drone would all make them somewhat more effective. 12 shots at 30" hitting on 4's is meh, 8 hitting at 36" or 16 hitting at 18" is less meh. Outside of assault range, BS4 from the drone (maintaining fluff) and still worth having.

As much as id like the rail rifle, it wont occur, Im hoping they do something like make it a battlesuit weapon or something. Maybe.
Personally I'd rather take 10 kroot then 7 fire warriors any day. Kroot put out more fire power, more assault potential, loads of special rules and with forest terrain they become more survivable then fire warriors.

However Firewarriors do have a point and I do take them for this. Foremost, they unlock the Warfish (Devilfish platform, smart missiles, targetting array, multi-tracker, disruption pod, and if you have points flechette discharger) This works our to be a total of 180(190) points. This transports dishes out a ton of firepower,is really survivable, and is used for tank shocking. More importantly, the devil fish use in tandem with crisis suits provides mobile, LoS blocking terrain to protect your suits. Notice how the Fire Warriors NEVER get out of their transport unless I tasked them with killing one guy. They are too fragile. The only time they should ever get out of their transport is when it blows up, and it should be on the objective you hope to take.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Yes, but the transport still isn't very good.

Getting a decent (but not amazing) number of s5 shots really doesn't mean much when a) you're still shooting at 24" max; and b) you're stuck never shooting at higher than s5. S5 doesn't scare transports that aren't named "trukk".
But VT2, didnt you know that ninja tau are the best way to play tau competitively???
3 replies · active 753 weeks ago
I always thought the best way to play them competitively was fish of fail.
Ninja tau involes a whole lot of 'specialit units,' after all.
I lost with Ninja-Tau?!

But, but, I was wearing the juice!
But fish of phish of phail is a critical part of ninja tau, you need at least 3 squads of 12 fire warriors in devil fish to wipe all enemy troop units. If my opponent is a cheesy WAAC jerkface who runs space wolves then I can just not play him on the basis of being a superior human being!
Fire Warriors need more than just a point break to be useful- I mean, yes, if you make them cheap enough (6pts?) then they become good, but that's a rather boring way to do it. I'd much rather see them (and their transport, and the rest of the codex) get changed so that they have genuinely interesting options and uses, not simply be The Most Efficient Gun.

Kirb and I have talked this over a couple times, and it's a tough call. Maybe if they had mobile Markerlights? The ability to fire from transports? Something else? It's hard to say, there's a lot of possibilities for how to improve them.
2 replies · active 754 weeks ago
They need to get in line with the rest of the game's useful infantry.
Good guns, reliability, and self-contained.
I'm still loving the Drone Harbinger idea but mobile markerlights (i.e. drones always relentless) is a start or being able to embark and disembark from a Devilfish in the same turn (with associated point decrease).
I dispute the idea that Mathhammer is a bad way to evaluate units. It's the best way to evaluate units that are made to be 'pure killy' (Dev squads, Hydras, Destroyers, LFs, etc.). It also helps in evaluating close combat troops - mathhammer shows why boyz stink at close combat (combat resolution, thx) or why FNP isn't all that on marines no matter how much the internet flips (the things that kill marines still kill marines, the things that don't really still don't).

It's a tool. Like any tool, it can be abused.
2 replies · active 754 weeks ago
You don't need mathhammer to prove that bad units are bad.
Ork boyz: fearless, weak, huge mass, huge footprint, and extremely slow.

Mathhammer should only ever be used to beat down warseers.
It's a bad way to evaluate units when it is the only thing you use. Even killy units have other things you have to consider: what other options are available? What range can I shoot at? Am I mobile or not, and to what degree? How many different targets am I effective against, and how well can my army handle different types of targets?

As you say, Mathhammer is just one tool in the box.
back in 4th, two plus 12 FW squads in Devilfish were fairly effective, using the Fish of Fury technique. the large number of shots you could put out using pulse rifles, or the smaller number of pinning shots using carbines, were capable of either wiping out whole squads of GEQ's, or forcing MEQ's to retreat/beknocked out of the game for a turn.
add to this the fact that in 4th, area terrain was never really used, aside from a few 'windbreak' tree lines to provide LOS blocking, so the main advantage of kroot in 4thed, their feildcraft, was basically a non-factor. so FW were THE effective troops in 4th.
with 5th, the kroot feildcraft is now useful, and the FOF no longer as uber. larger regions of area terrain has become a must have for most boards, espcially for all those groups with lots of CC armies playing. kroot can now use their feildcraft, and the long range of pulse rifles no longer has as much of an effect. which means the suckyness of the BS3 on a FW really shows.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
>back in 4th, two plus 12 FW squads in Devilfish were fairly effective

I'm sorry, this isn't true. FoF was never effective.
to finish my thought above (had to relocate), you also have the fact that the old IG and marine codex's were geared with higher point costs for most units, and less capabilities forthose units, despite the wider range of "army wide" options made possible through the chapter/regimental doctrines. these older codex's had less on the table in general, and usually much less potent to boot. since then, these codexes have been updated to the new "cheaper, faster, killier, better" paradigm GW is now using, while the Tau Empire Codex has yet to see such an update. thus units that used ot be fairly well balanced vs. the typical opposing forces are now well outclassed.
I dunno. If you want to use probability to justify saying "FW bad. Fireknife good." then you ought to make a quantitative comparison.

You used the example of MEQ kills. However, when you make a direct comparison you'll find the following:

Fire Warriors @ 120 points get 12*1/2*2/3*1/3 = 1.33 MEQ kills

2 Fireknives @ 124 points get 4*1/2*5/6*1/3 + 2*1/2*5/6*1/2 = 0.97 MEQ kills (in cover) OR 1.39 MEQ kills (out of cover)

Those numbers seem to indicate that Fire Warriors are pretty decent, and your argument is dreadfully flawed.
4 replies · active 753 weeks ago
Which is why mathammer is bad. FW can't damage AV12+ and are very unlikely to damage much else. FW have to get out of an expensive tank to shoot, cannot JSJ, cannot shoot down armor reliably up to 36", die to flamers, etc. Add in the joy of markerlights and this is even discussed why?
I'm not arguing either way; that FW are good or bad. I just read VT2's argument from probability, from which is drawn a strong conclusion, but it doesn't make sense. :B
He could of explained it more :P. it's the Swedish in him lol.
Kirb hits most of the high points, but to lay it all out:

-Fireknives can kill transports; Fire Warriors cannot. This is critical.

-Fireknives are extremely mobile; Fire Warriors are completely static.

-Fireknives shoot to 36"; Fire Warriors are 30", although admittedly this is not a terrible number. Movement increases the effective reach by another 6", though.

-Fireknives can threaten other types of targets (monstrous creatures, heavy infantry, etc), whereas Fire Warriors can only really hope to hurt light/medium infantry units.

-Lastly, Fireknives can take excellent advantage of Markerlights to shrug off cover, whereas Fire Warriors are limited in their ability to use ML hits.
I've always thought that the best way to fix the Fire Warrior is first and for most make the Devilfish a dedicated transport. Nest, like all other 5th edition codexs make the Shas'ul auto included into to the unit. After that, give Fire Warriors and Drones across the codex Relentless, allowing a member of the team, not the Shas'ul, to take a done controller. Allow two drones “attached” to him, so if he dies then the drones go also. The drones don't count towards morale checks/modifiers. All about opportunity coasts about hard choices.

Have the basic drone be the gun variant and allowing upgrading to all of the normal ones, save for sniper. Add the current “heavy” weapons; flamer, missile pod, burst cannon and all the others. Then on top of that introduce new weapon variants. Three off the top of my head would be:

Suicidal Drone: 12” – Strength: 8 AP: 3 – Large Blast
Rules: Drone moves up to 12” and blows up on target model. Center hole on model and role 1d6 plus scatter.

EMP Projectile: 24” – Strength: 8 AP - – Small Blast
Rules: Disregard center hole rule and all damage results have Stunned Result in addition to what the normal result is

War Frisbee: Close Combat Drone with a Kroot Hound stat line
Rules: Can be singled out in close combat and treat all rolls of six during wounding as a power weapon.

I'm visioning like a dozen. Tau are always changing and adopting on the technical side compared to the Imperium. Play it, give them a lot of choices and ones way out there. Like way out there. Point it appropriately like with 8 point Fire Warriors and 50/55 Devilfish. Toss in Stealth Suits to troops while fixing them and you'll have choices da-galore.
2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
AP - is bad for the vehicle damage charts. Also, scatter on a model that blows itself up?
I know AP - is "bad" for the damage chart. The point of the EMP weapon is to stun lock enemy armor with a slim chance of wrecking them. Fluffy, out there, and removing their mobility, while keeping your units safer from enemy action. It's nothing more then adding spice to a some what stale (rules wise/unit types) game. As for scattering it's just like demo pack units, but with only 1d6 for balance. You would center the hole on the enemy model after the drone "moves" in to it.

My whole point is trying to add something different to the game while fixing a very poor unit. The only way to do that is remove them from their current box and place them in a new one. The way I see it is by making them more mobile and able to support the other units you contol.
Firewarriors have such great range and their base gun have an easy time fragging trukks or putting wounds on Toughness 5 critters, they need some limitations. I think the STR and AP and range are fine, as is BS 3. What they need is a cheaper cost and bigger squads. Or an easy weapons upgrade that will get the foe on foot faster so their rifle range actually makes a difference.
How well is that listing working against mech guard (i.e. a lot of high armor in the front) with only three railguns?
I completely agree. FWs plain suck. But, with an update (hopefully) on the horizon, they -might- not suck so bad. Phil Kelly is rumoured to be having some part in the book, so (again, hopefully) we won't be Cruddace'd or Mattarded.

I would say assault 1 on pulse rifles and assault 2 on carbines, along with BS4 and special weapon drones would make them totally viable.
Or we could be Mattarded and be made into guard. Who knows.
Respectfully, I must disagree with a lot of what has been said. Firewarriors are very useful, and reasonably cheap. Of course, they are crap on paper, but Tau fight as a team, not individuals, and what FW bring to the table is very useful - screening units. FW are better at that role than Kroot, and I've experienced that it in dozens upon dozens of games. Don't believe me? Let me explain.

As several people have identified, Firewarriors don't kill people, Crisis suits do. We use cheap, expendable units to block enemy assault troops from reaching our shooters, and our Troops choices are the ones who get this fun job - and frankly, they aren't much good for anything else.

Ideally, we want an enemy assault squad to attack our screening force, destroy it, then be left standing in the open for our shooting phase. Leaving them in the open is vital for our plasma rifles to have maximum effect - we don't want to give them a free pass and a 4++ cover save.

So lets compare Kroot and FW by breaking down the things we look for in a screening troop.

Cost.
Minimum cost for a Kroot squad = 70pts
Minimum cost for a FW squad = 60pts
Conclusion - FW are cheaper than Kroot

Firepower.
Kroot - 10 S4 AP5 shots out to 24"
FW - 6 S5 AP5 shots out to 30". Can use markerlights.
Conclusion - about the same, which isn't much. Not that we really care about their firepower anyway.

Survivability.
Kroot - have 10 wounds, but no armour saves. Good cover save, but only in woods.
FW - only 6 wounds in the squad, but have 4+ armour.
Conclusion - Since we need our screeners in the open, FW are more survivable. They will take 12 bolter shots to kill (on average) while the Kroot only need 10.

Assault performance
Kroot - reasonable, but nothing special. Heaps of attacks let down by their initiative. No armour saves means they'll take plenty of casualties.
FW - woeful. These guys will not survive a single round of combat unless extremely unlucky/lucky. Happily, we don't want them to survive!
Conclusion - Kroot will perform better in assault, but unless in big numbers will be equally unlikely to survive as FW.

Special abilities.
Kroot - can infiltrate/outflank
FW - nothing
Conclusion - Kroot have some useful abilities, but not ones that really help them to serve as blockers.

Overall...

Sure, Kroot are better in close combat than FW, but that is actually a bad thing when you want your screening unit to disappear so you can shoot. With outflank you might be able to hit a small squad and win combat, but it's unlikely to be much of a threat. Their firepower isn't much to write home about, and boltguns drop Kroot like flies. To be a good screener we need a unit that will survive standing in the open until the assault phase - Kroot aren't it.

FW and their 4+ armour mean that it will take heavier firepower to reliably drop them (seriously, how many heavy bolters do you normally see out there? Every man and his dog loads up on missile launchers instead these days). This means they will probably survive long enough to block the assault, and you'd have to be seriously unlucky to have your FW locked in combat for a second round. As a bonus, being able to use markerlights means that they can actually do some serious damage against light infantry if you need them to. The fact that you spend less points on them than Kroot is just gravy.

In a 1500pt game I take 4 squads of 6 FW. I almost always have 1 or 2 squads alive by games end, and they perform the role of screener/blocker very well indeed. Yes, they don't kill much on their own, but Tau play the team game, and these guys are the blockers that allow our Crisis suits to bring the rain for that vital extra turn(s).

FW are fine - fix the overpriced Crisis suits, fix the useless Skyray/Stealth teams/Sniper Drones/Vespid, and give us a way to block Deep Strikers (like how Grey Knights do). Oh, a Fast Attack Monstrous (kroot) creature would be nice too! FW are fine the way they are.

Hope you've found this worth the read.

Reaper
2 replies · active 672 weeks ago
It is so easy to get cover for infantry it's not funny. Particularly when you have infiltrate. Those 10 bodies are much better at blocking than the six bodies of FW and yes, they can block in the open thanks to these very generous cover rules. If a board has 25% cover, it is very hard not to get infantry cover whilst still blocking important charge lanes. And the occasional time this does happen? Use Drones or Piranhas or the FW unit you have to take, etc.

FW are way too expensive for what they do - kill infantry at a level on par with Kroot which can serve more roles of utility because of their special abilities and cheaper price. Crisis are relatively decent as well though weapon prices are way out of sync though I do agree with every other unit needing a fix you listed.
True enough, cover is usually plentiful, but for the Kroot to get their cover save they must be 50% in cover, which means that only 5 Kroot can be in the open, and as soon as you take a casualty it's either reduce the blocking force or lose the cover save. Kroot can put 5 in the open, FW put 6, and for 10pts less.

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