
Cost: a squad of twelve is almost as much as two suits with plasma and missiles. It's 120 points for the warriors, versus 124 for the crisis team.
One-dimensional: Firewarriors only ever shoot. They don't move, run, redeploy, flank, contest, do combat, or disrupt. Their shooting is ineffective against everything except light infantry, and even a 4+ save of some kind makes the squad impotent.
Yet, forumgoers still say new players should build their armies around 'fire teams.' This angers me.
As any troll will tell you, stupid people don't answer to smart comments, so it's necessary to sink to their level before you can defeat them.
In other words, time for mathhammer.
Twelve firewarriors equal 12 shots. Obvious, yes? This is 120 points, too. Also obvious.
Since all their stats are horrible, it made perfect sense to give them a mighty ballisticskill of 3. This means 6 of those 12 shots hit. Very, very obvious - as mathhammer always is.
Now, say we're shooting at marines, you'll wound with 2/3's of those 6, so 4.
Marines have power armor, which - according to mathhammer - blocks 2/3's of all damage done.
In conclusion, your 12 firewarriors pump out enough dakka to drop ONE! marine.
Yeah, that's some great value you're getting out of those 120 points. I'm so happy 'veterans' are telling people they need a 'core' of firewarriors to 'carry the bulk of the heavy lifting.'
When something's so bad not even mathhammer can make it look good, you know you're dealing with the very worst of all 'specialist units.'
Now that all the little warseers are enraged, it's time for the meat.
Firewarriors are useless. Utterly useless.

Each team you take is a minimum of 60 points. Add 4 more, and you can buy an additional plasma/missile crisis. 10 more, you can splash on a grand total of ten extra kroot. 60 points is almost enough to pay for an unblinged broadside, or half of an ionhead.
The mathhammer above doesn't even begin to describe their uselessness. You see, most people stuff them in transports, so the 120 point squads rarely get to fire more than once a game, and are never cheaper than 200 points.

Only troops can hold, but everything else can contest.
This means you don't need to take a billion points worth of firewarriors and devilfish.
It's enough if you have the mandatory 6 dudes stuck at homebase, camping your one objective, while the rest of your army moves out and contests the remaining objectives, or shoots the enemy to pieces.
"But where will the dakka come from if I don't have firewarriors? You gotta have firewarriors and warfishes! How can you win if you don't have firepower!?" Alright, I'll bite.
Here's my 'base' army.
Junior commander: fireknife setup - 87
2 bodyguards: fireknife setups, 2 targeting arrays, blacksun - 167
Junior commander: fireknife setup - 87
2 bodyguards: fireknife setups, 2 targeting arrays, blacksun - 167
2 crisis suits: fireknife setups, teamleader - 129
2 crisis suits: fireknife setups, teamleader - 129
2 crisis suits: fireknife setups, teamleader - 129
6 firewarriors - 60
10 kroot - 70
10 kroot - 70
6 pathfinders: devilfish; smart missile system, vehicle multi-tracker, disruption pod, targeting array - 192
Hammerhead: railgun, burstcannons, vehicle target lock, vehicle multi-tracker, disruption pod - 170
Hammerhead: railgun, burstcannons, vehicle target lock, vehicle multi-tracker, disruption pod - 170
Hammerhead: railgun, burstcannons, vehicle target lock, vehicle multi-tracker, disruption pod - 170
This is a '2000 points' list, which isn't really at 2k. Sometimes, I switch in drones, blacksuns (not to be confused with purple suns) for purposes other than wound-allocation, or 'specialist units' (vespid, shapers, carbine warriors) for the hell of it, or cut out things to fit into lower points limits. It's far from 'the best,' and nowhere near optimal.
Years ago, I ripped the mixed guns of my suit armada, and organized them as above. This came about because I was convinced the forums were all wrong, and there was more to the codex than their tactica threads and so called 'experts' told me.
Since then, I've not lost a single objective-focused game. How does that work? I only have three troops, and tons of small, fragile squads, after all.

When the opponent's units are all either dead or dying, he can't contest or capture anything.
Tau are damage dealers - not tanks or campers. Play to your book's strengths, and ignore the forumitis that surrounds this codex.
A standard 'fish of fury' team consists of twelve warriors aboard a devilfish. With all the common upgrades for the transport, this is 235 points minimum.
235 points for 12 guys that die when they dismount, ridin' dirty in a transport that doesn't want to get close to the enemy, yet has range 24 guns at best.
To nail the point home, my 'command squads' are 254 points each. Why are you taking the fish of fury again?
goresmack 1p · 754 weeks ago
Love this blog by the way, it's like YTTH without all the complaining and demeaning responses. Keep up the great work!
-Goresmack
Kirby 118p · 754 weeks ago
Fireknife = plasma rifle, missile pod, multi-tracker
Apathyman 36p · 754 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 753 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 754 weeks ago
Now go finish your Tyranid articles :P.
VT2 79p · 754 weeks ago
=P
abusepuppy 121p · 754 weeks ago
(Gah! That looks horrible? How in the world are you supposed to pluralize a letter?)
VT2 79p · 754 weeks ago
Foiled by the power of proper spelling!
Kirby 118p · 753 weeks ago
Jackelope King · 754 weeks ago
In my little dream-world, the new Tau Codex becomes all about markerlights from different sources. Units process them with different types of drones (bought as wargear) to gain the different markerlight benefits. After what they've done with pain tokens for the Dark Eldar, I'm really hopeful that they can do it right.
Red · 754 weeks ago
VT2 79p · 754 weeks ago
The way things stand, you never, ever want to take more than 6.
If the 'sergeant' could buy two drones with battlesuit guns, the unit would be much more flexible and useful.
SageoftheTimes 77p · 754 weeks ago
The main things that would be nice: Shas'ui standard (higher LD), some sort of movement during your assault phase, and cheaper Fish (along with a dedicated transport option).
Apathyman 36p · 754 weeks ago
Red · 754 weeks ago
I'd actually be okay with just the standard 4 drones, assuming they too had an appropriate point alteration. Although the more I think about it, the more I like battlesuit options, as it might potentially free up elite slots for something else.
VT2 79p · 754 weeks ago
Obviously, firewarriors will never be given BS4, strength 6 guns, that are heavy 3, and AP3, so flexibility is the name of the game.
With battlesuit-armed drones, fire teams can actually work alongside whatever crisis teams you bring, and somewhat fend for themselves, too.
It also gets around the whole 'tau infantry never carries special guns.'
shaselbob · 754 weeks ago
but i think the reason most people take firewarriors is true, like you said, there supposed to be "killy" but also for the protection a devilfish provides with a DP. they bring mobile firepower to the field, are somewhat difficult to kill (compared to most tau units...) and provide extra armor spam. I still wouldn't take a warfish with anymore than 6 fw s
also, another setup i've seen is 6fw, ui w/ML, DC w/2 marker drones @140 pts i think. inefficient way to put marker lights in an army, but it makes that objective sitter squad somewhat useful. wouldn't take it personally either
what you say about their killyness is true, pt for pt they are inefficient and pathetic, but i still don't like the idea of having a "worthless" squad that is required 1+ (lol, 6 man EMP suicide squad anyone?)
VT2 79p · 754 weeks ago
It was great back when heavy bolters cost 10 to 15 points for units that could take a single one. These days, they're available on everything for free or very low points - even heavy weapon dudes. 5 points on long fangs? Yes, please.
Besides, this is 5th edition. Infantry on foot just dies.
Putting those 'range 30' guns inside the fish kinda defeats the point people always try to make, too. When your masterplan hangs on driving your shootng unit towards the opponent's knives, you need to rethink what you're doing - 'specially when the unit in question is 235 points.
Apathyman 36p · 754 weeks ago
SageoftheTimes 77p · 754 weeks ago
shaselbob · 754 weeks ago
most often though, i just take a 6 man squad on foot, park it on my objective and have it pray. sometimes though, i like to fully mech up for kicks. and for some reason, most people like to go after them instead of the kroot going to ground. thats why i keep a flechette launcher. another not so effective but scary tool
fyi, i think the warfish is a great way to make the pathfinder fish actually useful. plus said flechette launcher for decoying
SageoftheTimes 77p · 754 weeks ago
Flechette Launcher: Nice enough if you get assaulted a ton, but may not be worth the points. Probably better on Piranha squads, just to fuck with units assaulting in (or as a big middle finger vs. Orks).
Eltnot 45p · 754 weeks ago
VT2 79p · 754 weeks ago
Table the opponent or lose.
Kirby 118p · 753 weeks ago
SneakyDan · 754 weeks ago
Changes to fire warriors? They wont get heavy weapons, not in fluff. What would be more realistic? Extended rifle range (18" rapid fire and 36" single shot respectively) and Assault 2 Carbines, with no range change. The first supports the firebase, the second supports some mobility.
Aside from that? Points drop, to about 7pts per model, photon grenades as standard, and a drop in cost to the marker drone would all make them somewhat more effective. 12 shots at 30" hitting on 4's is meh, 8 hitting at 36" or 16 hitting at 18" is less meh. Outside of assault range, BS4 from the drone (maintaining fluff) and still worth having.
As much as id like the rail rifle, it wont occur, Im hoping they do something like make it a battlesuit weapon or something. Maybe.
Stillfrosty · 754 weeks ago
However Firewarriors do have a point and I do take them for this. Foremost, they unlock the Warfish (Devilfish platform, smart missiles, targetting array, multi-tracker, disruption pod, and if you have points flechette discharger) This works our to be a total of 180(190) points. This transports dishes out a ton of firepower,is really survivable, and is used for tank shocking. More importantly, the devil fish use in tandem with crisis suits provides mobile, LoS blocking terrain to protect your suits. Notice how the Fire Warriors NEVER get out of their transport unless I tasked them with killing one guy. They are too fragile. The only time they should ever get out of their transport is when it blows up, and it should be on the objective you hope to take.
Cyklown 51p · 754 weeks ago
Getting a decent (but not amazing) number of s5 shots really doesn't mean much when a) you're still shooting at 24" max; and b) you're stuck never shooting at higher than s5. S5 doesn't scare transports that aren't named "trukk".
ManusCelerDei 53p · 754 weeks ago
VT2 79p · 754 weeks ago
Ninja tau involes a whole lot of 'specialit units,' after all.
_Axiomatic_ 47p · 754 weeks ago
But, but, I was wearing the juice!
ManusCelerDei 53p · 753 weeks ago
abusepuppy 121p · 754 weeks ago
Kirb and I have talked this over a couple times, and it's a tough call. Maybe if they had mobile Markerlights? The ability to fire from transports? Something else? It's hard to say, there's a lot of possibilities for how to improve them.
VT2 79p · 754 weeks ago
Good guns, reliability, and self-contained.
Kirby 118p · 753 weeks ago
GreyICE · 754 weeks ago
It's a tool. Like any tool, it can be abused.
VT2 79p · 754 weeks ago
Ork boyz: fearless, weak, huge mass, huge footprint, and extremely slow.
Mathhammer should only ever be used to beat down warseers.
abusepuppy 121p · 754 weeks ago
As you say, Mathhammer is just one tool in the box.
mithril · 754 weeks ago
add to this the fact that in 4th, area terrain was never really used, aside from a few 'windbreak' tree lines to provide LOS blocking, so the main advantage of kroot in 4thed, their feildcraft, was basically a non-factor. so FW were THE effective troops in 4th.
with 5th, the kroot feildcraft is now useful, and the FOF no longer as uber. larger regions of area terrain has become a must have for most boards, espcially for all those groups with lots of CC armies playing. kroot can now use their feildcraft, and the long range of pulse rifles no longer has as much of an effect. which means the suckyness of the BS3 on a FW really shows.
abusepuppy 121p · 754 weeks ago
I'm sorry, this isn't true. FoF was never effective.
mithril · 754 weeks ago
rOBOT · 754 weeks ago
You used the example of MEQ kills. However, when you make a direct comparison you'll find the following:
Fire Warriors @ 120 points get 12*1/2*2/3*1/3 = 1.33 MEQ kills
2 Fireknives @ 124 points get 4*1/2*5/6*1/3 + 2*1/2*5/6*1/2 = 0.97 MEQ kills (in cover) OR 1.39 MEQ kills (out of cover)
Those numbers seem to indicate that Fire Warriors are pretty decent, and your argument is dreadfully flawed.
Kirby 118p · 753 weeks ago
rOBOT · 753 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 753 weeks ago
abusepuppy 121p · 753 weeks ago
-Fireknives can kill transports; Fire Warriors cannot. This is critical.
-Fireknives are extremely mobile; Fire Warriors are completely static.
-Fireknives shoot to 36"; Fire Warriors are 30", although admittedly this is not a terrible number. Movement increases the effective reach by another 6", though.
-Fireknives can threaten other types of targets (monstrous creatures, heavy infantry, etc), whereas Fire Warriors can only really hope to hurt light/medium infantry units.
-Lastly, Fireknives can take excellent advantage of Markerlights to shrug off cover, whereas Fire Warriors are limited in their ability to use ML hits.
Hushblade · 754 weeks ago
Have the basic drone be the gun variant and allowing upgrading to all of the normal ones, save for sniper. Add the current “heavy” weapons; flamer, missile pod, burst cannon and all the others. Then on top of that introduce new weapon variants. Three off the top of my head would be:
Suicidal Drone: 12” – Strength: 8 AP: 3 – Large Blast
Rules: Drone moves up to 12” and blows up on target model. Center hole on model and role 1d6 plus scatter.
EMP Projectile: 24” – Strength: 8 AP - – Small Blast
Rules: Disregard center hole rule and all damage results have Stunned Result in addition to what the normal result is
War Frisbee: Close Combat Drone with a Kroot Hound stat line
Rules: Can be singled out in close combat and treat all rolls of six during wounding as a power weapon.
I'm visioning like a dozen. Tau are always changing and adopting on the technical side compared to the Imperium. Play it, give them a lot of choices and ones way out there. Like way out there. Point it appropriately like with 8 point Fire Warriors and 50/55 Devilfish. Toss in Stealth Suits to troops while fixing them and you'll have choices da-galore.
SageoftheTimes 77p · 754 weeks ago
Hushblade · 754 weeks ago
My whole point is trying to add something different to the game while fixing a very poor unit. The only way to do that is remove them from their current box and place them in a new one. The way I see it is by making them more mobile and able to support the other units you contol.
MeanGreen · 753 weeks ago
loudanddeep 48p · 751 weeks ago
@aitruscolso · 750 weeks ago
Taubomb · 680 weeks ago
I would say assault 1 on pulse rifles and assault 2 on carbines, along with BS4 and special weapon drones would make them totally viable.
Or we could be Mattarded and be made into guard. Who knows.
Reaper · 672 weeks ago
As several people have identified, Firewarriors don't kill people, Crisis suits do. We use cheap, expendable units to block enemy assault troops from reaching our shooters, and our Troops choices are the ones who get this fun job - and frankly, they aren't much good for anything else.
Ideally, we want an enemy assault squad to attack our screening force, destroy it, then be left standing in the open for our shooting phase. Leaving them in the open is vital for our plasma rifles to have maximum effect - we don't want to give them a free pass and a 4++ cover save.
So lets compare Kroot and FW by breaking down the things we look for in a screening troop.
Cost.
Minimum cost for a Kroot squad = 70pts
Minimum cost for a FW squad = 60pts
Conclusion - FW are cheaper than Kroot
Firepower.
Kroot - 10 S4 AP5 shots out to 24"
FW - 6 S5 AP5 shots out to 30". Can use markerlights.
Conclusion - about the same, which isn't much. Not that we really care about their firepower anyway.
Survivability.
Kroot - have 10 wounds, but no armour saves. Good cover save, but only in woods.
FW - only 6 wounds in the squad, but have 4+ armour.
Conclusion - Since we need our screeners in the open, FW are more survivable. They will take 12 bolter shots to kill (on average) while the Kroot only need 10.
Assault performance
Kroot - reasonable, but nothing special. Heaps of attacks let down by their initiative. No armour saves means they'll take plenty of casualties.
FW - woeful. These guys will not survive a single round of combat unless extremely unlucky/lucky. Happily, we don't want them to survive!
Conclusion - Kroot will perform better in assault, but unless in big numbers will be equally unlikely to survive as FW.
Special abilities.
Kroot - can infiltrate/outflank
FW - nothing
Conclusion - Kroot have some useful abilities, but not ones that really help them to serve as blockers.
Overall...
Sure, Kroot are better in close combat than FW, but that is actually a bad thing when you want your screening unit to disappear so you can shoot. With outflank you might be able to hit a small squad and win combat, but it's unlikely to be much of a threat. Their firepower isn't much to write home about, and boltguns drop Kroot like flies. To be a good screener we need a unit that will survive standing in the open until the assault phase - Kroot aren't it.
FW and their 4+ armour mean that it will take heavier firepower to reliably drop them (seriously, how many heavy bolters do you normally see out there? Every man and his dog loads up on missile launchers instead these days). This means they will probably survive long enough to block the assault, and you'd have to be seriously unlucky to have your FW locked in combat for a second round. As a bonus, being able to use markerlights means that they can actually do some serious damage against light infantry if you need them to. The fact that you spend less points on them than Kroot is just gravy.
In a 1500pt game I take 4 squads of 6 FW. I almost always have 1 or 2 squads alive by games end, and they perform the role of screener/blocker very well indeed. Yes, they don't kill much on their own, but Tau play the team game, and these guys are the blockers that allow our Crisis suits to bring the rain for that vital extra turn(s).
FW are fine - fix the overpriced Crisis suits, fix the useless Skyray/Stealth teams/Sniper Drones/Vespid, and give us a way to block Deep Strikers (like how Grey Knights do). Oh, a Fast Attack Monstrous (kroot) creature would be nice too! FW are fine the way they are.
Hope you've found this worth the read.
Reaper
Kirby 118p · 672 weeks ago
FW are way too expensive for what they do - kill infantry at a level on par with Kroot which can serve more roles of utility because of their special abilities and cheaper price. Crisis are relatively decent as well though weapon prices are way out of sync though I do agree with every other unit needing a fix you listed.
Reaper · 672 weeks ago