3++ is the new black. | Kirb your enthusiasm!: Email in: Dark Eldar

Friday, November 19, 2010

Email in: Dark Eldar - 1st army list

Posted by Unknown

"Hi Kirby (and all others),

Nie blog you have going, its friendly and troll free which is always nice. I thought i'd run my Dark Eldar list by you and see what you think. Its been a while since I played Dark Eldar, but feel honour bound to revisit them with their new release. I've stuck to a similar list as my old armies and I think it should over most contingencies.

Sliscus 150
3 haemonculi 2w liquifier, 1w shatter shard 185
--------------
8 Bloodbrides 2w Shardnet/Implaler 1w hydra guantlets 175
+ Syren w powerweapon
Haywire grenades
+ Raider w flickerfield, nightshield. 80
8 Bloodbrides 2w Shardnet/Implaler 1w hydra guantlets 175
+ Syren w powerweapon
Haywire grenades
+ Raider w flickerfield, nightshield. 80
8 Bloodbrides 2w Shardnet/Implaler 1w hydra guantlets 175
+ Syren w powerweapon
Haywire grenades
+ Raider w flickerfield, nightshield. 80
5 Wracks 1w liquifier 60
+Venom + shuriken cannon + nightshields 75
---------------------------------------
9 Warriors 1w blaster 96
+ Raider w flickerfield, nightshield. 80
10 Warriors 1w blaster 1w shuriken cannon
+ Raider w flickerfield, nightshield. 80
------------------------------------
Ravager w nightshield, flickerfield 125
Ravager w nightshield, flickerfield 125
Ravager w nightshield, flickerfield 125

=1981 points

Wracks hold home objetive and venom hangs back as much as possible with ravagers or support, but have mobility if close in support is needed.

Bloodbrides have enough hitting power for most melee tasks and with haemonculi joining them and giving FnP means they can tar pit pretty effectively too.

Warriors hang around in raiders for lose support and Slicus who starts in the unit of 9 jumps out and joins the witches when required.

Your opinions and cricism is welcome.
ChrisH"

I like this list but think we can do some things to make it better. Main issue is there are only three units moving towards your opponent, the Bloodbrides so some more units like Reavers or Venoms moving forward I think are good options. Silcus is a good HQ but not sure he fits this list. He's not going to start with Bloodbrides as the Haemons are there and it seems like you're just taking him for his contraband ability when most of the Drug results will improve the Bloodbrides anyway. Dropping him frees up some points to get some more units moving forward and we can fiddle around with other things. Haywire grenades on the Bloodbrides...hmm, yes and no. They obviously allow the unit to not fail against vehicles/Dreadnoughts but at 2pts a model they are expensive so for the moment I think we can drop them, especially when you consider the number of DLs in the army atm and they ride around in DL Raiders. Shardnets = good but I'd personally go for three and give the Syren a Phantasm Grenade Launcher as well. Since Silcus isn't riding around with the Warriors we can also max them out and give them a cannon.

So what to do with the extra points? Well first off I think some Reavers with Heat Lances. This gives a couple more units heading towards the enemy and more armor busting (particularly with some AP1). The Warrior units are quite mobile as well with Splinter Cannon/Blaster combo so some upgrades on their Raiders like Splinter Racks can make them more potent as they get closer and bring more anti-infantry and anti-tank to bear. Putting this all together we get...

3x Haemon
3x 9x Bloodbrides w/3x Shardnet, Syren w/Power Weapon, PGL, Raider w/flicker, night shields
5x Wracks w/liquifier, Venom w/2x cannon, night shields
2x 10x Warriors w/cannon, blaster, Raider w/flicker, splinter racks, night shields
2x 3x Reavers w/heat lance
3x Ravagers w/flicker, night shields

Totals: 1994 points
61 infantry (6 jetbikes)
9 vehicles

No weapons on the Haemon but dropping some night shields on the Raiders frees points up for this. The Bloodbrides are expensive but are excellent tarpits with torrenting punch whilst the Raiders and Ravagers put down suppression fire. The Warriors and Reavers offer up a lot of mobility and more options in terms of anti-tank and anti-infantry whilst the Wracks are a solid objective holder whilst putting out 12 poisoned shots.

Comments (18)

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TimW · 768 weeks ago

I've been looking at the DE codex quite a bit and been talking to some friends about it. Although I'm not going to start collecting models for a couple months...waiting for the internets to come up with a good build before I purchase any models, trying to be frugal not cheesy. Posts like this are great.

The Dark Eldar Warrior squads seem to be lacking something (a problem with the codex right now, the troops aren't very good)..Sure they've got the blaster but that is one shot that is NOT ap1, making it unreliable for tank-hunting. It seems like if you want them to be able to tank-hunt they should have the blaster and the blast pistol, drop the splintercannon...but I think the Warrior squads can leave the tank-hunting to their transport and focus on mopping up remnant squads on the board. The splintercannon is probably the only upgrade I'd give them.

2 replies · active 768 weeks ago

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Joe G · 768 weeks ago

The troops aren't very good? I'm confused.

I kind of agree with you on the fact that a blaster is unreliable, but the rest of the logic doesn't sit well. I think the argument that only AP1 AT weapons are reliable is flawed. The reason Dark Lances/Blasters are unreliable has more to do w/ S8 and only a single d6 pen. If I roll on the chart, I'm generally happy. The problem is when I don't get to roll at all. The way I see to overcome this is redundancy. Preferably in the form of dark lances, but blasters can work as well. You can expect to get to roll on the table once per ravager, and similarly once per unit of trueborn with 3 blasters. All told, if I can get 5-6 rolls on the table per turn, I think I'm doing ok against most armies (depending on point level of course).

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Kirby 118p · 768 weeks ago

What else are you going to take other than a blaster? Shredder? THe blaster gives the unit some duality as the Warrior squad is essentially anti-infantry with 20 splinter shots on the move. When you combine the blaster with the DL from the Raider you've got two nice lance shots which can be spread between targets as needed.

DE Troops are quite good as well o.O. Wracks and Hellion swaps backed up by Warriors and Wyches? 4 good options? Yes please.

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Sorrowshard · 768 weeks ago

3 units of bloodbrides seems unnecessary where you could buy some other things to fill the holes , I think you are fairly low on AT punch for 2k, my 1500 -1750 lists feature more and sometimes still struggle with mech due to the nature of lances....... drop one unit for some lance/blaster trueborn ?

Single units of three reavers don't do it for me, I recommend taking at least 2 heat lances in a unit to make it worth bothering and the extra bodies mean your meltas will resist torrent better, not to mention their fly overs will actually do something.

Why night shields on the raider ? To get the most out of the warriors they need to be within 18 at least and preferably 12, what on earth difference does it make to have them ? I find them fairly useless at long range too. If only going for one type of field , take the flicker as it protects you in CC too , something that really pissed of my CSM opponent recently when his DP bounced off then got poisonhosed to death. @ 12" with splinter racks warriors are awesome.

I would drop all the Night fields except the Ravager mounted ones and get those Haems some liquefiers and 2 syrens upgrade to agonisers or something.

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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Kirby 118p · 768 weeks ago

Night shields give flexibility. Say agains a Vulkan list you can play a lot easier in that bubble where they basically cannot hit you and you can hit them until you want to move in. Are they necessary? No. Are they useful? yes.

You could easily go with two bloodbride units but Iwouldn't replace them with a single trueborn unit. I'd probably go for more Reavers then and expand the squads. When you only have the points for small squads, multiples are better than one large squad hence 2x3 and 14 lances, backed up by a couple blasters and heat lances is fairly decent anti-tank.

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Resv · 768 weeks ago

Night Shields are absolutely brilliant! I'm surprised at how often I have been seeing people pass over them. Why are they good? Because you can use them to mitigate fire from your opponents back field for one. The other use, and my personal favorite use, is mitigating small arms fire. Tau and Marines really hate night shields as they need to get REALLY close to torrent down your raider. They may not seem like much but they can really frustrate the HELL out of your opponent, think of them as an added surprise.

The thing that kinda bothers me about this list is that your Haemo's aren't helping your Blood Brides in their chosen tasks besides giving them a free pain token. If there was a way you could work out some points to get some of the rather outlandish arcane gear available then I think that would be a big help. Flesh Gauntlet, Agonizer, Liquifier Gun (personal favorite), and Scissor Hands are all quality options that will really help out your Haemonculi be more useful to your 'Brides. To do this I would think about possibly taking out one of your units of Warriors and buying up another unit of Wracks on a Venom. While I am not sold on this idea I do think it is worth a look as it can give you another strong unit of objective holders AND a bit more punch in CC.

5 replies · active 768 weeks ago

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Sorrowshard · 768 weeks ago

Nope, not getting it , I dont see how they, mitigate backfield fire at all, sure if you keep your ravagers right right at the back, but as for everything else, as I said , DE armies don't/cant hang back, most peoples long range fire can reach you anyway - 6 inches on mostly 48 inches aint gonna do shit to protect your raiders that have to close (most of them) situationally , if your opponent has 'the dumb' It might stop him shooting you but its unlikely and I never assume my opponent can't guess ranges if they can usually make it within 6" for melta shots, how is this going to help ? maybe its my playstyle but they have been all but useless on all but the ravagers and even then its been situational.

Stripped them off and saw no difference at all.

I would rather spend those same ten points that works all the time every time and even in CC

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Kirby 118p · 768 weeks ago

Long-ranged firepower units are quite often hidden behind other units like Rhinos and Chimeras to gain cover, etc.. You deploy 36" away from their front line (i.e. rhinos/chimeras) and their 48" guns can still hit you. Add in night shields and they can't unless they move forward which exposes them and limits firepower depending on list. See above as well.

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Sorrowshard · 768 weeks ago

if a board is 48 wide and 48" enemy weps are reduced to 42 ? how does that help your forward raiders ? you have nothing to gain by Being set up right on the back line, even if you are its unlikely all his 48" fire is set up pressed at the back of the table, the only way the night fields gain use is diagonally and @ extreme range , closing with his forces at all will kill that benefit (if you even got it in the first place), other than ravagers which only have a 36" range so will invariably be in range of something in order to actually shoot anything, the theory being that at extreme range the fields should help cut some return fire from its flanks... anything else its a waste on , any other raiders are going to be midfield if not closer.

Used them for about six games and I think only once did they prevent shooting at me, just seem highly situational to me

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neverXmoor · 768 weeks ago

Diagonals, bro. That said, I prefer the flickerfield.

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Kirby 118p · 768 weeks ago

+1 to moor; that being said flickerfields are a better buy (read: as close to an absolute as I'll ever come). Night Shields are much better on Ravagers/Razorwings/Bombers but they do offer up uses against certain army types. If you were to drop them? It's not a huge thing but to disregard them offhand can be.

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Joe G · 768 weeks ago

Dunno if tooling up the haemonculi makes any sense either though. They are there in the force multiplier capacity. Ideally, the bloodbrides don't even drag them to the combat (given they don't have fleet, and hence slow the unit down). Exit raider, leave haemy on board, haemy flames something in shooting phase has been working for me.

I think the point on night shields is that they generally don't do that much against backfield firepower past turn 1 on raiders (as you're probably advancing with them), and you need to move the raiders up close to the enemy anyway. If he wants to devote small arms fire to the raider, I'd rather him do that than shoot at my infantry. By dropping the nightshields on the bloodbrides, you can fit in 3 liquifiers on the haemonculi, which I think has greater utility.

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Cyklown 51p · 768 weeks ago

Except turn 1 is the real key. Everyone gets an alpha strike against DE t1 unless they get to go first, and this gives them something that helps out the classic "hid the raiders" tactic.

Flamers are great and all, but aside from units in cover that extra chance to get your superwyches into combat is going to do a lot more of you.

Looking at the wych weapons, I'm rather into the razorflails even with the awesomeness of shardnets. Sure, they get more attacks on you, but with 2 around you're still nerfing a decent chunk of guys with proper model placement, and while they can stack poorly with some combat drugs the increase in hitting and wounding rates is rather impressive. Still, I suppose it's one of those cases where noncombat troops will die too quickly and against dedicated combat troops you really want the nerfing that is losing upwards of half of their attacks.

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ChrisH · 768 weeks ago

Thanks for all the feedback.

I've done some changes to the initial list since I emailed it to Kirby. I'll dig up my list when I get home and post it.

As for nightshields, on raiders I think they are great for stopping rapid fire death, on ravagers I don't know yet, only battle reports I;ve seen don't seen to have ravagers equipped and i've yet to test the list out. This might give me some points for CC unprades for hemmies.

As for the hemmies, I think weather they assault or stay in the raider will be case dependent but I like the idea of the raider toting a d6 ap template as well.

I did the maths on razorflails vs hydra gauntlets and I think hydra gauntles work out better 90% of the time (based on average rolls). If your charging with bloodbrides and have an extra attack from drugs the flails win, otherwise gauntlets for more hitting damage (higher strength from drugs also alters this result). As such I prefer shardnet/impalers as i'd rather have that extra defence over (on average) 2.5 extra attacks.

1 reply · active 768 weeks ago

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Kirby 118p · 768 weeks ago

The extra defense will generally win hands down and it isn't drug dependent which is always good.

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ChrisH · 768 weeks ago

This is my current list. Still has some room to move bits and pieces around. As for anti tank, my local meta is fairly mech light and im unlikely to fight more then 4 or 5 vehicles in a game.

HQ
Duke Sliscus =150

Haemonculus - liquifier
Haemonculus - liquifier
Haemonculus – Shattershard, power weapon =195

Elites
8 Bloodbrides - 2 shardnet/impaler, 1 hydra gauntlets, haywire grenades
+Syren - power weapon
+Raider - nightshield, flickerfield =255

8 Bloodbrides - 2 shardnet/impaler, 1 hydra gauntlets, haywire grenades
+ Syren - power weapon
+Raider - nightshield, flickerfield =255

5 trueborn - 2 splinter cannons
+Venom - splinter cannon, nightshield =155

Troops
9 Warriors - 1 blaster
+Raider - nightshield, flickerfield =176

10 Warriors - 1 blaster, 1 splinter cannon
+Raider - nightshield, flickerfield =195

9 Wracks - 1 liquifer
+Raider - nightshield, flickerfield, grisly trophies =185

Fast
3 Reavers - cluster caltrops =86

Heavy
Ravager - flickerfield =115

Ravager - flickerfield =115

Ravager - flickerfield =115

Total 1998

2 replies · active 768 weeks ago

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ChrisH · 768 weeks ago

I decieded to skip the night shields on the ravagers, several reasons but we use alot of over in mid field and that blocks off sight alot so for best shots im probably gonna need to be little closer to the back line. I'll see how they do without for the moment.

i don't like agonisers, that extra 10 points for what is basically a +1 str some of the time (drugs/furious charge), id rather spend those points elsewhere.

Also given heatlances on reavers trade 1 spot vs the multiple flyby attacks, i'd rather just boost them back and forth.. May change after i test them.

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Sorrowshard · 768 weeks ago

not enough AT , best games I have had with DE so far has let me control the opponents mobility / shooting from the onset with lance weps , i whitewashed a Vulkan list today for the loss of one unit of warriors and their raider because i got first turn and none of his vehicles were able to shoot or move from that point on , each turn I would prob kill maybe one so the fire intensified on the remaining tanks, he essentially hardly got any shooting out all game and after having his transports destroyed I was able to decide how and when i was going to deal with his remaining units.

At 2k that list seems fairly low on AT , its possible to get over 40 lance weps at 2k , you should be shooting for around 25-35 by my reckoning.

thing is VS mech armies your reavers will have almost nothing/ nothing to fly over , the heat lances will give them something to do, it will also help with your At situation.

Flickers are amazing , they have pissed off all my opponents so far , seems I cant roll 5+ armour , but a 5++ for my transports , gold