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Tuesday, November 2, 2010

Vulkan: Should he always be used?



Vulkan. He’s that guy everyone complains about being in every single SM list as a no-brainer choice. News flash; he’s not. This was sparked by a comment by LKHero saying that the Space Marine codex is limited in builds, not internally balanced and a Vulkan is a no-brainer choice. Whilst I believe the SM codex is the weakest in terms of internal balance of the 5th edition books, only Heavy Support is really limited. Every other FoC has at least three good options (Bikes cheat and fit into both Troops and FA) which leads to a whole bunch of different lists. However, the focus of this post is Vulkan, so let’s take a gander at him.

Vulkan is a great character and adds quite extensively to many Marine lists. For an extra 90 points over a regular captain he has a good combat presence and statline with a S6 power weapon, 3++ and heavy flamer to boot but importantly makes all flamers/meltas in the SM army twin-linked and thunder hammers master crafted at the cost of combat tactics. For an army with a lot of flamers and meltas in every slot, this can be amazing. In case you missed it, that was a conditional. An army with lots of flamers and meltas in every slot (except Heavy Support. Do NOT buy MM Devs lol). Not every SM list has this and thus not every SM list needs Vulkan. Let’s explore why.

At anything above 1750 Vulkan is going to be extremely cost efficient in most Marine lists. A normal Captain with Relic Blade, digital weapons and SS clocks in at 150 points so for 40 extra points you get twin-linked on all of your meltas and flamers over combat tactics, master-crafted on the Relic Blade and a heavy flamer. So if you were going to take a Captain w/Relic Blade & SS and not on a bike, yes Vulkan is pretty much a no-brainer at appropriate point levels. However, most SM lists don’t run Captains like that for good reason. They don’t add anything to the army other than some S6 power weapon attacks. So the real comparison needs to be made against a Librarian which means we are coughing up and extra 90 points for Vulkan. That’s a whole Land Speeder and extra plus the loss of psychic defense and powers such as Null Zone to gain twin-linked on our flamers and meltas. Although this is a steeper price difference between the ‘standard’ HQ and Vulkan, it still doesn’t rule out his efficiency.

Looking at an SM list with something like 10 MM, 6 flamers (3 combi) and 6 heavy flamers you’ll quickly see why he is very efficient (hell buying 9 MM/HF Speeders essentially ‘pays’ for Vulkan’s efficiency) and that's without Termiantors. However, is that extra 90 points always worth it? In point efficiency terms, more often than not yes. But in relative terms, not always. Let’s take a gander at my potential Centurion list (1750):

Libby w/Null Zone, Avenger
3x Riflemen Dreads
2x10xTacs w/flamer, MM, Rhino
2x5xTacs w/LasPlas Rback
2x2xLand Speeders w/MM/HF
3xPredators w/HB

Vulkan only impacts on 4 units (large Tacs and Land Speeders) and I need to make room for him. Sure dropping the Dreads down to MM Dreads adds to the number of units he effectively helps whilst saving points but also makes this list suffer from lack of ranged anti-tank. Whilst adding in Vulkan doesn’t make it a bad list (with some working), it’s a different style of list. The list is a lot more focused on close-ranged firefights (which it will usually win) and when you add in Terminators ala Thunderbubble, this advantage is heightened. However, a Vulkan Mech or Vulkan Thunderbubble list is fundamentally different as you need to ensure you are taking as much advantage of Vulkan’s abilities as possible which ends up forcing your list to focus on close-ranged firefights.

Is one better or worse than the other? Not really, they have different advantages and disadvantages but blindly putting Vulkan into a list isn’t always going to get you a maximum return on points invested and needs to fit the style of list. Adding Vulkan into the above list is the same problem as a normal Captain; what need do I have for that S6 combat firepower when I’d rather not be in combat? It’s a nice back-up but since I’m not gaining the most out of his Chapter Tactics, he doesn’t fit that list. This obviously means Vulkan isn’t a no-brainer choice. Yes he is probably always going to be point efficient but that doesn’t mean the unit fits into an army. By adding Vulkan you change the dynamic of the army list and either need to build around this or change your list to account for this. This is a great thing of 5th edition army books. A single character takes a ‘standard’ codex build (builds even) and modifies them to make a distinctly different list. Vulkan is good but he's specific to a certain army style and even though he's point efficient, blithely putting him in any list doesn't make the list necessarily better.

Comments (28)

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Darth Izuna's avatar

Darth Izuna · 752 weeks ago

Could Vulkan work in a biker list? Lots of fast TL melta and flamers seems pretty awesome. Or would that be a pain to work with points wise?
1 reply · active 752 weeks ago
yes and no. To start off you need Vulkan + a Captain on a bike which is already 300+ points. Doable since a pure Bike list runs double Captain + Command Squads but Vulkan isn't a Captain so you're down to one Command Squad and you need to fit him somewhere. He can't teleport with Terminators and running a single Raider is begging for it to get blown up. Two raiders + terminators is viable but no more command squad and you have minimal saturation (you could fit in Vulkan, 10 termies, 2 LRs, Bike Captain + 2 full size bike squads and a small bike squad or speeders at 2k). Pods? He's then left alone (and his squad) and Termies can't get in Pods either so you won't have a very survivable squad. Hybrid lists like Fast'N'Slow? Expensive as you're already tight on points at 2000 which means dropping the Preds most likely and then you lose saturation, etc.

Unless you want to simply grab Vulkan and attach him to a bike squad which goes slowly and/or deep strike Termies, this isn't really going to work until 2500 where you can grab multiple Terminators in Raiders and some speeders for saturation.
Reminds me of early discussion of the tyranid Doom of Malan'Tai; both very potent and low cost in points. But given he needs a pod (reserve bonus considerations) and takes an elite slot (AKA nid Anti-mech slots) he's suddenly no longer a no brain choice...

I have to say I do really like Vulkan lists. Just something about marines running around with tons of flamers and TH/SS termies.
I used to play against a vulkan biker list. Its only really viable at 2500 where your bike captain and vulkan can be afforded. But it was a crusader and redeemer, 10 hammers, the two above mentioned characters, a tac squad in rhino, some speeders, and bikes with melta everywhere. Very effective shock army.
I wonder what you think of captain sicarius.. is he worth taking or just completely bogus?
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Bogus. if you're going a foot Captain go Vulkan. Siccy gives a tac squad a USR...woo. If he gave every Tac squad a USR on the other hand...
He adds very little for his points.
kimchi loves company's avatar

kimchi loves company · 752 weeks ago

Totally agree. Vulkan is great for certain builds, in my opinion he is de rigueur for a drop pod list given that he makes their weapons of choice so supurlative. On the other hand if you want to keep your enemy at arms lenght and/or are meching it then no vulkan is not your man. Great article.
3 replies · active 752 weeks ago
Unfortunately, no. Drop lists need a MotF (if you're not bringing 6 Dreads on the drop, you're not running a competitive drop list). 1 HQ down. True competitive lists NEED psychic defense. Especially a list that has a place for him to ride. So there's your 2nd HQ. No room for Vulkan, sorry.
I disagree that drop lists need 6 dreads. That's one way to play, certainly, but not the only. Podding Sternguard/Tac squads/Land Speeders is a decent way of doing it. Problem is of course that a pure drop list would love to fill those heavy slots with Dreads or something else that can effectively drop.
I guess that depends on your definition of "decent." Marine drop lists roll pretty badly to most strongly competitive armies because they are forced to either bring half their stuff in on the wrong place or walk across the entire field. Yeah, you can sit some Tacs on objectives, but that means you have no firepower on the field, because 2-3 Missiles/MM don't count.

Drop lists are very fluffy and fine for casual play and low-level competitive, but they fare very poorly against anyone who understands how to use reserves.
Vulkan is good. But, he's balanced because, to justify his 190 pts price tag, you have to build your army in a certain way, one that has a max range of 24" in a Multi-melta.
3 replies · active 752 weeks ago
If I'm playing a Vulkan list with only MultiMeltas as heavy weapons I know the game is practically won on deployment. I just need to stay 24.1" away from your army in your turn, and by being too Vulkan-centric there's nothing at all to threaten me.

Now, if it's a player with Missile Launchers or someone like Zen who brings along a Thunderfire cannon (and knows how to use it) then I know I'm in for more of a real fight.
But if you are bringing a lot of missile launchers, you are bringing Vulkan too....why?
*looks at Dreads, Speeders and Attack Bikes.* Wow, another blanket statement which doesn't work out. As Gx says, take advantage of Vulkan or don't take Vulkan. Vulkan lists are short-ranged but nobody likes 12" fire on the move MMs and Space marines have some of the largest access to them. Vulkan lists lose out in firefights with only Heavy Support really to offer up ranged suppression and Devs aren't too hot in the SM list. Does this mean the lists are bad? No. Immolator spam laughs at the thought of not being competitive because they don't have ranged weapons.
Ahoy Kirby! So the reason why I said Vulkan is a no-brainer is because for 40 points more than a Captain, you can change an entire army. Similarly, the Duke is considered a no-brainer for me. For a few points more than a Archon, you have the option to make all your transports DS and give a squad's poisoned weapons the chance to wound on 3+. You pa for the benefits and that's what I find highly attractive. Vulkan for me, is a no brainer for SM lists that plays with Hamminators, anything with a heavy flamer or prefers to run MM or MM bikes (over HF/MM LS). If you're not interested in running any of those, then sure you don't need Vulkan. He is, however, an undisputed bargain in the SM book.

Oh, and maybe it's just me, but I've seen too many lists based on Vulkan marines in the competitive scene. To a point where I feel that's the only build worth taking to tournaments. SM isn't as mono-build as most people think, but I think the strongest of the competitive builds hover around Vulkan's ability to buff all the strongest elements of your army for free. Here's an example of my Vulkan list here:
http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2010/03/salamanders.ht...

You can also find my other Space Marine builds here.. featuring the Raven Guard and Crimson Fists Chapters :) http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2010/03/raven-guard.ht... http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2010/03/crimson-fists....
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Oh I agree if you're going to take a Captain, take Vulkan instead (assuming not on a bike) but Captains just shouldn't be taken anyway so meh *shrug.* Even if he wasn't as cost efficient he brings something to the army outside of face punching in combat which is what HQs like Captains, Chaos Lords, etc. do. Those days are long-gone and the HQ needs to help the army in some form which Vulkan does very well. That being said I don't think every SM list benefits from or needs Vulkan which is what I was interpreting your comment to say (I think your above post indicates otherwise).

Good lists can still come out of SM without Vulkan even in a list where you can include Vulkan (i.e. my 1750 list). Changes to that list to include Vulkan would make it a much different army as overall I'd have to be more aggressive and would invarabily drop the Rifledreads down to MM Dreads, etc. Also, other lists like Bikers have a hard time fitting him in at all and I feel too many people focus on his efficiency which is always high rather than whether or not he's right for the army.
Don't forget that Vulk also has a 2+ armor save, so he's a real beast to bring down.

That said, he inclines your army to be woefully short on medium/long-range firepower, which can be a very dangerous thing. He also, as Kirb points out, costs a non-insignificant number of points and does not, himself, bring a whole lot to the table. Sure, he's got a Relic Blade and nice saves, but so what? That doesn't help when you're trying to shoot the enemy to death, like his army generally is.

Vulkan, along with Khan and Shrike, is one of the "good" SM chapter leaders. He is far from overwhelming and he is anything but a no-brainer; if all you do is toss him into a regular SM list, you're wasting points.
You have the points wrong in the article. Captain with Blade, Digital and Shield is 155 not 150. The extra 35 points gets you Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Heavy Flamer and Master-crafted weapon. If I was bumping your Centurion list to 2k I would add Vulkan even though he only enhances the Tactical Marines and Speeders.

Vulkan may not be the best primary HQ to take for all armies. As a secondary HQ though the only reason to take a Captain on foot over him is to make use of the Command Squad.
6 replies · active 751 weeks ago
Pretty much what I was getting at. For 190 points, he's a STEAL. Sure, he doesn't fit in a Raven Guard list, or CF list, or Kirby's shoot'em up list, but he's undeniably one of the best buys in the book in terms of wargear.. not just his ability to amplify an entire army's weapons. That's what I mean when I say he's a no brainer. For the RTS loving competitive gamer, he's as cost effective as you can get.
Absolutely he's a bargain but if you aren't taking maximum advantage of his special ability, how often do you see plain old combat HQs? Not often anymore because there are better designs which impact the army (like his special ability). You don't often see Captains just for Command Squads because it's so cost ineffective when you consider the whole army.

Woops re: points and yes I forgot about AA ^^.
You mean plain old combat HQ's like Vulkan, Kantor, Khan or Shrike? Other than Libby's they are about the only HQ that seem to get used! It is going back to the Hero-hammer argument of everyone using special characters. 190 Points gets you a plasma-command squad with Champion. They are quite good at killing Monsters and Terminators.
190 points + the price of the Captain.

Even though Kantor is meh each of those HQs you said changes the army in some way. Vulkan leads to a short-ranged but very reliable army. Kantor improves combat effectiveness and makes Sternguard scoring. Khan gives you a better combat unit w/H&R + FC and provides deployment differences for the whole arm. Shrike makes Terminators plain scary but has limited applicability, etc. Let's look at other characters commonly seen. Dante makes SG scoring. Logan makes WG scoring. Swarmlord/Tyrants make their armies and units better. Bike Captain makes Bikes scoring. Hell even Warbosses lead to Nobs as Troops. Most of these are good combat models themselves but are taken for their abilities. Let's look at good HQs who are really only combat monsters.

Mephiston. Winged Nurgle DPs. Nothing else is jumping to mind...Primes? Though they are cheap. Anyway, other things like Chaos Lords, Captains, etc. with a bunch of buffed wargear just aren't worth it anymore. All the above models like Vulkan, Logan, Dnate, etc. may be good combat fighters but their use is based around their abilities and FoC changes which is why Vulkan is such a bargain in the appropriate list even ignoring his cheapness compared to a similarly equipped Captain. In the right list twin-linking all my melta/flamers + master-crafted TH can easily cost 200 points and I'm getting a guy who does this for 190 who can do stuff himself? Neato. Still doesn't make him an auto-include in all armies and makes all armies better.
I think we are talking at cross purposes here. Librarians are the best primary HQ for marines simply because they give you something you can not get elsewhere; psychic defence.

Unlike other marine dex I have never seen Ultramarines taking two Librarians. The most common choice of second HQ in a Mech-marine list is Vulkan and Kantor (even if you do not like him). If you are taking two HQ's the only reason to take a foot Captain over one of those two is to make use of the command squad, or you really want combat tactics.

I do not see it as 190 + Captain, you are getting ~30 point discount on your special character so you can take the Command Squad not the other way around. As I said about your army list, even if he just buffs Tactical Marines and Speeders I would still take Vulkan as the second HQ in a mech-marine list.

For me Vulkan is the default second HQ for mech-marines. I might replace him with another choice if I had some purpose in mind such as wanting to use a Plasma-command squad or Khan's hit-n-run. I disagree with your last sentence. Vulkan does make all mech-marine armies better even if he only boosts Tactical squads.
Two HQs for Mech Marines is expensive and doesn't add a bunch. You see two RPs or RP/WL or RP/Logan or two BA libbies or BA Libby/Dante because they are offensive units in their own right whilst bringing utility. Vanilla Libbies are just plain utility (although Avenger is a nice spell it's still limited by range) and so is Vulkan and the two combined don't add enough to really be considered.

If I'm taking Vulkan and all he does is improve my 2-3 tac squads, I shouldn't be taking Vulkan. If I'm taking Vulkan and running MM Dreads, Termies, Preds, MM Speeders/ABs and flamer/MM tacs, then we are talking but to just buff Tacs? No. In 1750 list he would at least buff Tacs and Speeders but you lose the utility of the Libby and have to shave points elsewhere. If you dropped the Dreads to MM Dreads then yes he becomes a good buy. Is it a better or worse list? No; it's a different list.

He's simply not an auto-include. He's good for what he does in making a close-ranged army even more potent and is very point efficient and whilst he can fit into most SM lists due to the Imperium's reliance on flamer and melta technology, it doesn't mean he has to go into the list.
Well I was doing Salamanders back in 3E and I'm glad to see a proper Salamanders character (Xavier didn't really cut it) I agree that you have to 'gear' your army (basically focus almost exclusively on MM, MG, Flamer, HF and TH weapons) in order to maximise points value. It can be fluffy as well which is great.
fowlplaychiken's avatar

fowlplaychiken · 750 weeks ago

You guys need to check the FAQ's. Vulkan's Hf/MM twin linkage only applies to models who start with combat tactics; thus, it does not benefit land speeders, dreads, etc. So, in essence, how many meltaguns/MM, flamers and heavy flamers do you have on your infantry models? Probably not very many.

My salamander army has 3 tactical squad MM, 3 tactical squad flamers, and vulkans heavy flamer; thats all that qualifies for twin linkage. I have a ton more MM and heavy flamers; they just are not twin linked because the FAQ clearly states they do not benefit.

I do have thunder hammer terminators, and the master crafted hammers rock ;-d
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
My FAQ doesn't say that and unless it's been updated (GW site shows no FAQs for 40k atm) then *eyebrow.*

Vulkan's rule states: All units in army lose the combat tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as master-crafted, and all flamers, heavy flamers, meltaguns and multi-meltas count as twin-linked.

Not lose and replace with bonus. Lose. Bonus. It's an absolute rather than a conditional.

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