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Friday, January 14, 2011

Back to Basics - Writing your list.


Note: this is not about building win/loss tourney lists. This is for people starting out. Remember this as you read this article.

So you've starting to play Warhammer 40K. Great! A rich universe, filled with space skeletons, space marines, space elves, space daemons.... you get the drift. Next are the shiny models, and the armies they belong to, and the painting, and modelling, that goes with them. Even more fun. You know what isn't fun? Writing your army list, only to have your face smushed into the dirt over and over and over again.

Yeah, it happens to just about everyone who joins this hobby. It happened to me for oh, I don't know, 10 years when I first started playing as a youngster ( I think the rad kids call them "noobs" now, goddamned beatnik goodfernothins *grumble*). I had far too much allowance as a kid of 11, and that meant I played a LOT of armies. Like, all of them. Yes, every single goddamned one, and for both Fantasy and 40K. And I was freaking TERRIBLE. Like could not win a game. Even with childish cheating.

Seriously, I was am that bad.



I've found that a lot of my friends that join the hobby have the same problem, whether they are new starters, or coming back from a previous edition. They all seem to have the same problem, and that is list building.
This brings me to the meat of this article - how does one go about constructing a list? Without talking specifically about tournaments (comp or otherwise) how do you make the choices that lead you to create the army that you play games with?

What Codex should I play?


The question. It defines what you will do when you play 40k from this point onward (with this army anyways) Do you take the awesome of pyramids and space undead that is necrons, or the noble (and a little sexy) Sisters of Battle? What you need to do, when selecting your army, is LIKE that army first. Don't listen to grizzled veterans who will tell you that space wolves are the new hotness, and imp guard are unbeatable, but your chosen army is shit, and you shouldn't play it. When you are starting out, pick a codex that you like the fluff of, and go from there. You will enjoy the hobby more if your running an army that you like the back story of, as it gives it more character.

Next on the agenda - design your army list before you make purchases. Figure out what (within your codex) you like, and want to play with, and build on that. Make sure your army has some sort of theme, and make sure you LIKE that theme. When you design your army list, think about how you want to play that army. Armies fall into 3 basic categories

Assault: You have dudes. They have swords, and axes, and possibly hammers. They like to hit stuff with these implements.
Examples: Blood Angels Jump marines, Drop Pod wolves, Orks of any kind, 'Nids of any kind, etc.

Gunline: You have dudes. They have guns. Lots of guns. They like to shoot stuff.
Examples: Tau, Imp Guard, Space Marines, etc

Balanced: Your dudes have swords and guns, but are not picky about which they use.
Examples: Anything, really.

If you match your army list with your idea of how the game should be played, you are probably on the right track.

What units should I take?


This ones easy - Anything you like. No, seriously. But remember this- Not all FoC choices are created equal. In every book, there are substandard choices, which we here at 3++ are quite often happy to point out. Does this mean you should NEVER take them? No. It means you should be aware that those choices will not be the best in your codex, and therefor are not using your codex to its full potential. Is that bad? God no. I freakin love Blood Angels vindicators, but anyone with half a brain will tell you they are bad. Would I take them to a tournament? Probably not. Do I still think they are cool, and would I build a FLGS army with them?
Oh feck yes. Ask any author on this blog, and anyone who frequents the tournament scene, whether they have a fun army as well as a tourney army. I for one can say I have like 3 non-tourney armies that I own/intend to own, and I will play them locally. Hell, I'm even intending to take one of them to all the local tourneys this year, just so I can have some fun in the comped environs.

If your not having fun, your not doing it right.


Refine your list


This ones harder for newer players to understand. The key concept is to play games. Lots of games. Once you have your army, and you start to play with it, don't change it up too much. Many a new player disregards good lists because they don't auto-win for them. The list is merely the tool at your disposal, its how its employed that makes a good list terrible, or a terrible list play really well. Play as MANY games with your army as you can, and then if you still don't like it, make some changes. Read sites on the internet, (3++ IS THE NEW BLACK!) and sift through the information. Realise that what you read on those sites is not gospel (except for here, of course) and that it is merely information and opinions posted by randoms across the world. Any experience is worthwhile having, even if its bad experience.

This is kind of a ramble, so I'd like people to post up their first armies, and what drew them into the game. I think its important to remind people that although we advocate competitive gaming, in essence its still a game, and if people aren't having fun, we won't have anyone to compete against.

SneakyDan

Comments (19)

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My first army was iron warriors in third edition. The rules for the iron warriors were in a white dwarf at that time. I liked the color scheme, the rules (I get to field 1 basilisk with my chaos space marines, whohooo!), I didn't really like the look and feel of deamons so the army was perfect for me. 11 years later i'm still playing iron warriors but with rules from a codex that isn't CSM because they just don't feel right. I play them as Space Marines or Space Wolfs (mainly for the razorbacks, combat squads, long fangs).

I'm hooked to chaos so every army I build has a chaos look but not the rules. My all bikes space marine army is based off fallen from the ravenwing, berzerkers on bikes, converted white scars and others. A real warband built from the scum of the galaxy that worship more there bikes then any emperor or chaos god.

Like Sneaky Dan said the important part is to like your army and have fun playing it. The good part about space marines is that your codex doesn't give you exactly the feel that you want, try an other codex maybe the units are waht you were looking for in the first place.
Pink-haired girls in Star Trek uniforms? Oh, there's an article...

I started two years ago. My cousin (played GW games for about 17 years or so, but on a break for a few years at this time) gave me a quick overview of all of the armies. I was flipping through the Space Marine codex at the time, and I came across Librarians and asked "which armies have sorcerors?"

"Eldar, Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines..."
"CHAOS Space Marines?!"
"Yeah. They have 4 different gods, with Tzeentch being about a lot of sorcery.
"They sound cool. I might want to try some of them out."
"Yeah, They also have a giant crab walker."

He then showed me a picture, and I was deboxing one two days later.
Good article, thanks
Also, don't be shy about pointing out that you are a new player! Even if you pick a great list, either based on advice from here or because you are a list building prodigy, you are STILL going to get crushed by an experienced player if you both play to your full abilities. Play games with people who will teach you as you are going along, so that you understand why that unit is where it is and what will happen if you don't respond. Otherwise the game is sort of pointless for everyone; somehow all of your guys are dead and your opponent is kind of bored.

My first army was Dark Angels, back in 2nd edition. I picked marines because they were in the box. I started to paint them up as Blood Angels, and quickly decided that painting red and black was a nightmare using red paint that took 50 coats to cover every mistake I made with the black. Since Dark Angels were in the same codex as BA the army quickly shifted to them.
I got sucked into the game by playing Space Hulk at a buddies house back when I was 19. We were all using the plastic boxy-terminators that were the norm at the time and he had these cool metal miniatures with like feathers and stuff hanging off them. He called them Deathwings and I said, hey cool, gotta me some of those. Went down to the local hobby store and asked for some super cool metal terminators for Space Hulk. The guy looked at me like a crack dealer sizing up a new potential revenue stream and pointed me towards the wall. Terminators! TERMINATORS! And there were three kinds. I had no idea! There were the basic blue ones, and the ones with feathers, and the ones with goddamned WOLF PELTS! I was sold.

Years later I still have those minis, and while the new generation of models is miles better, I'm still kinda in love with the stiff armed Wolf Guard Terminator Seargent and his wolf-top.
I wanted to get into the hobby for years before I did. My first box was beserkers, then a hiatus for 7 years before the guys at work all got back into it. I stepped up by asking about the armies, and who locally played whT, and the one army that wasn't played was Orks. So I asked more about them, and found out about the pirate fluff, ramshackle vehicle, and crazy scratchbuilt attitude!

I was sold.
My first lists were not too bad, as played a friendly escalation tourny league thing, and even in the old codex orks @ 400 points were a bit crazy.
By the time real games came along I had a battlewagon and a looted leman Russ

By the time the new codex dropped, I started building my 5 BW orks lists and the rest is history.
My first army was an Imperial Guard army bought off of ebay, but I hated them quite a bit, marines were so much cooler. After talking to one of the local veterans at the time I decided that I liked the idea of guys with big armour curb stomping everything, and so I started Space Wolves, bought a battleforce off ebay, and then started trading all my guard. For most of 4th ed I ran a Blood Claw w/Rune Priest Stormcaller Hammer of Doomsauce. Back when Grey Hunters were a bit expensive (18 power weapon attacks followed up by 48 normal attacks killed everything in one go, to consolidate into another unit, annihalate it, and then they all just stood there in their little storm and got shot and lived). Also ran my Venerable Dread with his never missing Plasma Cannon.

That was then, now my list is much different (no claws).
Lurking Horror's avatar

Lurking Horror · 742 weeks ago

My terrible beginnings were kind of the opposite to SneakyDan's - I never had any money to spend on the hobby. My brother and I went halvsies in the 40k box, and we split everything down the middle. So my 10 Space Marines ended up being painted in a wide variety of colours, using cheap oil paints. I scavanged and traded for more guys, and added the models from Space Crusade to my collection. I still have all these minis, but they're shoved in a box that hasn't been opened for quite some time.

My gaming history started off just as bad as SneakyDan's. My brother was playing Eldar for most of 2nd Ed, and would routinely trounce me with Warp Spiders and Dark Reapers. And stupid psychic powers. The idea that it was somehow my fault, or that I didn't have any variety of units didn't occur to me at all. Then 3rd Ed came out, and suddenly my terrible Space Marines army managed to win a game. Against Eldar. And then it was my brother's turn to get all grumbly about stuff. I liked it :)
1 reply · active 742 weeks ago
Lurking Horror's avatar

Lurking Horror · 742 weeks ago

All the time in between, I've mostly been a collector. I'm not good at painting, and don't really want to be. I'm happy enough with what I can do, and I get enormous satisfaction from doing it myself, but I don't really enjoy it as such. Its only in the last year or two that I've started taking gaming seriously and wanting to get better at it. I originally started going to tournaments just to play against a wider variety of opponents and armies. That's still a big part of the appeal for me, but I'm also wanting to push myself and my (lack of) playing abilities.

Two comments, because it was "too long" for a single post o.0
two main points for new guys:

1. magnetize everything.

2. don't pick any codex older than 1 edition.
3 replies · active 683 weeks ago
why magnetize everything?
Ninja6fett's avatar

Ninja6fett · 733 weeks ago

So you can switch stuff around. For example if you magnetize your sargeants arms/weapons you can swap them around. If you change your list around and decide you don't want a powerfist on a tac sarge you can just pull em off and give him back his chainsword.

Same goes with Dreds, vehicles etc.

In my case since I'm making a counts-as BA army I'm also magnetizing all my backpacks so I can switch between jump packs and regular ones if I decide to run razorspam or whatever later.
Starting off with tau, and then moving onto nids, I highly wish I'd taken the time (and money) to magnetize mine. Woulda saved alot of busting apart suits and fexes from stupid combinations of gear.
I started playing around the end of second edition. I asked the GW shop owner which marine chapter was best in close combat. I've been playing Space Wolves ever since.
Black Templars.

First mistake.

White on black for someone with no painting skills is a bitch. Second. Templars suck. Being new to the game means you dont know jack about how it really works, or what works and what doesn't (The book says it works, WHY WOULD THE BOOK LIE?!?)

Second mistake

"Self taught"

Reading about doing something and actually doing something are two very different things (Go figure). So, like most struggling 40k players, i went around asking for help. The problem? Most people dont know shit about templars. Most people will tell you what works for their army, and assume it should work for yours.

What followed was more or less a year of being soundly beaten in every match I ever played.

Then one day a guy let me look at the wolves dex', with the passing comment of "You can build most chapters out of it"...

and that kids is how I discovered my furson-I mean, how I got to playing space wolves.
3 replies · active 742 weeks ago
What you brought up here is EXACTLY why I created Implausible Nature. To the letter. You are 110% correct in the statement most people don't know anything about Templars. And sadly, that includes some of the actual BT community. Much like what this blog/YTTH does, I do my very best to ensure that new players/returning players to the Black Templars skip the whole "a year of being soundly beaten in every match" and give them the tools to very quickly up their game with the BT codex. I cannot say that I've made as huge a difference as Kirby, Stelek, or other big-name bloggers out there...but I get daily emails from BT players who are showing markedly better performance. There are others like me, but not nearly as vocal and "loud" as I am about promoting the advice (Note: I don't believe myself to be the one and only sole authority on the BT. Just one of them). So if one is willing to look, they can find information on their chosen codex to attempt to up their game. They just need to be willing to accept the advice given to them and implement it in their lists/games. Unfortunately, it is a skill to be able to separate the good advice from the bad stuff.

The problem is that most players want to play the Black Templars in the imagery of the codex fluff. Unfortunately, in this edition, that simply is not the best way of doing things. Nor the most competitive. And that turns most players off, as it is the whole reason they came to the codex in the first place. Why play a codex that doesn't do what you want as well as you thought it would? This is one of the reasons the new 5th Edition codices are so popular. They allow you a multitude of builds, most of which are competitive. To be competitive with an older codex like the Black Templars, you have to be willing to bend, scrape, and claw every ounce of efficiency out of the book to be successful. Sometimes that'll take you out of your comfort zone, but anything less will cause you to get your ass kicked in games. :(

Lastly, I don't believe that this is a game that new players can sit there and teach themselves how to play. Or even in a small group of friends. While they'll "learn" the game and have fun doing it, they won't really get GOOD at it unless they're willing to look for help outside of the comfort bubble. They are looking through yellow colored sunglasses, but the guy at the local shop wears blue colored sunglasses. Because of this, he sees things differently from the new player. He will be able to put into action tactics and lists that the new player has never seen before, thus, probably destroying the new player in their lack of experience. And if you really want to be GREAT at the game, you need to learn from the National/International players to get a real feel for competitive play. Often, this can only be done via the Internet (and requires the ability to decipher good advice). But again, the new player needs to take the initiative to step outside the bounds of their kiddie pool if they want to learn how to be great with their army and the game itself. :D

BTW: none of the above is directly related to you Comrade, other than the intro to my comment. ;)
Just wanna chime in for a sec and say that Implausable Nature is an excellent site.
Unfortunately, it made the one Black Templar player in my group of about 15 gamers completely miserable to play against, so I'm not neccessarily sure that's a good thing.
But it is probably the best BT site out there....
Miserable, as in they are now a complete cock ass to play? Or miserable, as in they are now a difficult opponent to beat?
Rites of Battle is excellent as well. But yes, Implausible Nature has been tremendous for me as a new BT player.

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