Dark Angels Email in: Deathwing

Sunday, January 16, 2011

Dark Angels Email in: Deathwing

Posted by SneakyDan

"Figured it'd be easier to mail you guys the list, than wait for you to be online to chat. With the new FAQs updating the rules for Stormshields, Cyclone Launchers and Power of the Machine Spirit, how would you rate this army list?
130 Belial

240 Deathwing Squad
       4x Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
       1x Cyclone Launcher, Chainfist, Stormbolter

240 Deathwing Squad
       1x Power Sword, Stormbolter
       1x Chainfist, Stormbolter
     1x Cyclone Launcher, Powerfist, Stormbolter
       1x Powerfist, Stormbolter
     1x Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield

240 Deathwing Squad
      1x Power Sword, Stormbolter
     1x Chainfist, Stormbolter
     1x Cyclone Launcher, Powerfist, Stormbolter
     1x Powerfist, Stormbolter
       1x Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield

240 Deathwing Squad
     1x Power Sword, Stormbolter
       1x Chainfist, Stormbolter
       1x Cyclone Launcher, Powerfist, Stormbolter
     1x Powerfist, Stormbolter
       1x Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield

265 Land Raider Crusader
       Extra Armour

265 Land Raider
     Extra Armour

130 Predator
       Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons

1750

Cheers,

Dan."

I knew you'd be happy to see your beloved Deathwing useable again mate, especially since its your only fully painted army :D. Righto, on to things I can see that are glaringly wrong. The predator has to go. As far as being useful, your better off sinking the points into other things, for supression purposes. I've got a fair idea of what models you have, which makes this a WHOLE lot easier. PS Fluff is not included, because new speeders are goddamned amazing, at 75pts per typhoon.
Disclaimer: DA Codex is STILL at a friends place so working the AB. Corrections may be needed.

This is what I'm seeing for you.

Belial, TH/SS
5 Man Deathwing Squad, Apothecary (yay FNP!) 4 TH/SS, 1 x Chainfist/SS/CML
5 Man Deathwing Squad, 4 x TH/SS 1 x Chainfist/SS/CML

This is your DW assault half, by the way.

5 Man Deathwing Squad with 4 x SS/P-fists 1 x Chainfist/SS
5 Man Deathwing Squad with 4 x SS/P-fists 1 x Chainfist/SS

Land Raider Crusader, no upgrades
Land Raider Godhammer, no upgrades
1 x Speeder Typhoon
1 x Speeder Typhoon

4 x Missile suppression shots, + the raiders. Doesnt seem like a lot of shots, but its basically some very awesome thunderbubble in practice. DW Assault drops the 2 x cml squads in close on turn 1, and they can hopefully supress something. Other 2 squads jump raiders, and roll forward, typhoons hug cover and try to snipe suppress stuff. Leaves some points spare, as well, assuming AB is correct.

This is a quick reply to everyone else, I'll be talking to Dan in detail later.

Cheers, Sneaky

Comments (16)

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Bigbaboonboy · 760 weeks ago

Hmm, ok the codex has had a rebirth in the last few days, but as far as I can tell you are still restricted by the codex options for the Deathwing. Not one of these squads is legal by my reckoning.

It would be fantastic to have the option of Chainfist and SS for 5 points but alas, such things are left for the use of the Space Wolves only.

Revised the list basically reads like many a Deathwing now will:-
Belial
Multiple Deathwing units all with Cyclone and TH/SS
Mutliple Typhoons
Other shit according to taste and points

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Captain Kellen · 760 weeks ago

In DA lists you can't take a SS and another type of CC weapon, you have to take the TH... If you want a chainfist you have to stick with SB and P-fists then upgrade...

Just making a clarification...

CK

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Lyracian 59p · 760 weeks ago

My first thought was the same as others "not a valid list".
Also Deathwing Assault only allows 1/2 the terminators in reserve to arrive first turn so no good there either.

I think you should drop the Land Raider and take more Terminators and speeders. Probably a Librarian too (even though they have weak powers). Maybe a bike unit for the Teleport homer.

Belial; 3 Typhoons; 6 Deathwing Terminators with CML is 1765 points.
If you drop one CML you you can play it at 1750 and you have 30 scoring terminators.
Drop one squad of terminators and you have 220 points to spend on other units and the points to get FNP Terminators.

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Dezzo · 760 weeks ago

Belial
DW Squad. 2 TH/SS, 3 SB/PF (attach Belial in this squad)
DW Squad. 2 TH/SS, 3 SB/PF + 1 Cyclone
DW Squad. 2 TH/SS, 3 SB/PF + 1 Cyclone
DW Squad. 2 TH/SS, 3 SB/PF + 1 Cyclone
DW Squad. 2 TH/SS, 3 SB/PF + 1 Cyclone
DW Squad. 2 TH/SS, 3 SB/PF + 1 Cyclone

Landspeeder, MM/HF
Landspeeder, MM/HF
Landspeeder, MM/HF

2 replies · active 760 weeks ago

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steve · 760 weeks ago

Would it not be better to have more TH/SS than SB/PF in each squad? That way you can take the 3+ invulnerable saves instead of a 5+.

0 Vote up Vote down

Dezzo · 760 weeks ago

you need to shoot stuff. this is 40k lol.

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steve · 760 weeks ago

Belial (Lightning Claws)
5x Termies (5x TH/SS, CML, Apoth)

5x Termies (5x TH/SS, CML)

5x Termies (5x PF/SB, CML)

5x Termies (5x PF/SB, CML)

Ven. Dreadnought (PC, HF)

Crusader

Crusader
____
1750

Why not deploy the two Thunderhammer squads in the Crusaders, and use the other two with SB/PF to hold your rear objective(s)? It seems to me that 10 Termies would be hard to shift, and each squad can also dump 5 Stormbolters and a pair of missiles a turn into something. Of course the rock part of the army is scoring too, making it more flexible AND more efficient than a Codex: SM army. I just threw in the Dread because I am old school (3rd edition), and to me anything in a DW army other than Termies, LRs and Dreads feels wrong.

With the pair of Crusaders, you can block LoS to the foot Termies and Dread during your advance, or even leave the two foot squads in reserve and Deepstrike one in on the first turn.

1 reply · active 760 weeks ago

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steve · 760 weeks ago

"making it more flexible AND more efficient than a Codex: SM army"

I meant, of course, moreso than my SM army, which centers around two Thunderhammer squads in Crusaders and two Meltabunkers.

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SneakyDan · 760 weeks ago

thanks for corrections guys, no codex makes it problematic, was relying on AB..... And that's never good. :) spoken to Dan anyways, probably toss his revised list up tOnight.

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tehixe · 760 weeks ago

The more I think about it, the more it seems like DW just isn't the way to go.

First of all, the best DW asset, the CML, is a contradiction. It has extreme range, but the squad is best used as a close assault unit. If you want to use the range, you forfeit the assault. If you don't care about using the range and you deepstrike close to the enemy, then you forfeit your missile spam because only 1/2 your guys show up on turn 1.

DWTs are still great. But I don't think they make a great army all by themselves because what they have in firepower and toughness, they lack in mobility.

Now, Ravenwing is great because you can fill up your Troops with bikers and still have 3 FA slots for cheap-ass typhoon speeders. But they suffer because, although they have the ability to get close really quickly with Scouts, they've got no serious assault power. They can't drop a biker command squad like C :S M, Sammael's upgraded squad is a pale shadow of that unit.

So logically, shouldn't you combine Ravenwing and Deathwing? That combines your assault, mobility, and firepower into one mean machine. Apart, Ravenwing and Deathwing have serious weaknesses built in, but they tend to fill those in nicely when combine, I think.

5 replies · active 760 weeks ago

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Kirby 118p · 760 weeks ago

Your assessment of DA is pretty spot on and even with the changes, this is still their issue. Whilst running 6-8x Deathwing squads + Typhoons more a lot more anti-tank power than there was before and a lot of scary terminators, it's almost a game of "move me in if you can" which is difficult with 30 odd terminators but your offensive output is pretty much relegated to 20 odd missiles. This is a huge step up but still pretty uni-dimensional.

Adding ravenwing to deathwind helps this out a lot in banging in some units close to the opponent quickly and importantly having melta to pop tanks and you can fit in 3x typhoons, 3x ravenwing, 4x deathwing at 2000 points but you're paying a lot on HQ and the ravenwing aren't exactly creating saturation problems, etc. So whilst price ineffective I think this is the best way to go with the new DA. You're running full foot + a couple of typhoons if you wish (doesn't have to be and in fact you could not run typhoons or sammel and run just 3x ravenwings and then more deathwing squads), you have scary combat units, mobile ranged firepower and mobile short-ranged melta whilst your army is also never leaving the board unless it gets killed. Fun times but still issues with model count and unless the Ravenwing are built sturdy enough can become quite immobile. A fine balance needs to be struck.

When the codex really does get updated this is what we want the force to be able to do effectively. This is certainly a nice step and versusing this type of army is annoying as hlll because of the survivability and ability to get in your face.

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Dezzo · 760 weeks ago

"Contradiction" is also sometimes known as "Duality".

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Guest · 760 weeks ago

I think you should read the post on Stormravens; it nicely delineates the difference between these terms.

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willydstyle · 760 weeks ago

A CML is just as effective at 12" as it is at 48", it's just that the extra range gives them the capability to fight back against armies that can run away from them.

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Brendan · 760 weeks ago

Also, you don't have to elect to deep stike everything or nothing. In many cases, (if you have 5+ squads) You could reserve 3 and deploy 2+, then DS 2 squads turn 1 and have a majority of your army on the field. (only one squad in reserve, who you can either DS or walk on depending on your pregame assesment.) Thats not to say that Deathraven is not the way to go, I think that points really hamstring that particular build in many ways. At Less than 2k points sinking 335 points into HQ choices, leaves few points to pick up other expensive troops. You could field one of the 2, but if you take Belial you are going to be giving up on having cheap Typhoons (probably the more viable option if you want to run more than a squad or 2 of termie). If you take Sammi then you have Bikes as troops and can get the Typhoons, but your troops will be fragile (especially if you use them for terminator delivery) and expensive.

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tehixe · 760 weeks ago

Good points guys. I suppose I can wrap my head around pure DW after all. The great thing about them is that they can start on the other side of the board and just walk at the enemy, since they are no less vulnerable in the open than in cover. And that's a good point, that you could deploy some of them on the board and teleport the rest, putting most of them on the table on turn 1.