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Thursday, February 10, 2011

Creed Playing Chess.

Turn 3 He Outflanks a Bishop.


So, I've been playing about with Space Wolves as of late. Discussion with notable "e-people" as well as some friends has urged me on to try (if not run, at least try) something different. That is heavy infantry. In the past I have only really played either really mech heavy SW, or entire foot lists. What I'm going for here is true hybrid, leaning on really light mech. ~ A buh, this article has nothing to do with Chess. This must be the work of some sort of tactical-


So, to discussion! Ok then, well.

Here's where it all breaks down ~at the first commercial because people these days are 146% convinced mech is king. Lemme get something clear. Mech is king. Mech is el kingshippo del diablo. Mech is the ultima weapon. Why? Well it's resilient, it allows you to break the game down (this is really important) and it's MOBILE. It also allows you to double up on force org slots. This is big too. But frankly, it has weaknesses, and the reason it's king is it just does these things well. If something doesn't do these things well (or as well as mech) it's "bad". What happens when some stuff does this stuff as well (stuff stuff stuff) as mech? Well what you got there is a working foot unit. Or army. Not footdar.

Why not footdar? Cause they do **** worse than mechdar.

So what'm I getting at, and unrelentingly dragging you towards? Hybrid. Sort of. See, in a mech army, during turns 1-4 the mech usually does most of the work, with the infantry pulling out the stops and winning for you turns 4-5 (+6+7). Now, what this army is planning to do is make the infantry do the majority of the work turns 3-5+. How? Well, what's that big thing that infantry generally lack (Sans Move! Move! Move!) but mech give them? That's right, reliable run rolls. mobility. Realistically guys, look at your games. It's not your mech that's doing damage and taking names, it's the infantry. The mech is just the means to an end. Meltavets? Brutal, ball crushing assaults, taking objectives and even killing other infantry. This is the job of the linesman. The mech is mostly just to get him there (or fire support, which, in SW, infantry can provide).

Ok, so, the principle here. Well, lets look at a "typical" SW list. What're you likely to be looking at turn 1? AV11 and Long Fangs. So what do you shoot those with? S7 multiple shot weapons. See, the long fangs help here, because they're also a target on the priority list of those guns, because their long range puts them out of traditional anti infantry firepower. Ok, got it. But Arch, when you don't run that many tanks, your shit's gonna get suppressed. True enough, but people are used to dealing with 30-40 infantry. Not 80.


This pic is more "family friendly."

Well the cat's out the bag now. Seriously though, lissen. I can fit in bare bones mech and long fangs, as well as another 67 infantry. I don't give a shit what happens to the mech after turn 1. It can still play the "game breaking down" thing (I'll get to this later, TCG players might know what I mean?) and it can still tank shock. See, after playtesting (actual playtesting!) a few things became apparent. Lets have a look at the "typical" anti tank weapons you're gonna see.

Autocannon- Prime Targets: AV11, Long Fangs
Heavy Bolter - Long Fangs, AV11, Side/Rear Armour, Infantry
Lascannon - AV11
Melta - At this range I stop giving a shit

Multi Melta - AV11
Multi Laser- Long Fangs, AV11

Note the dominant "long range anti tank weapon" of the edition is also good at shooting infantry, so long fangs are also a target. This is kind of important. Also let it be noted you need to stun, immob or destroy a rhino for me to give a shit. Even then, expect to see infantry get out and run at you for being a dick.

Point made? Hope so. Real men rely on meltas to kill their tanks. It's the least reliant on odds weapon for the job. 2D6+8 pen against AV11 does not **** around. That or vendettas. Again, reliable. Missiles will reliably piss tanks off. So will autocannons. Destroy them? No. Especially not with cover. Railguns will reliably gut**** tanks with what is basically a ball bearing. ~A ball bearing made of biceps and chainsaws.

Ok ok, justification aside, have a look at a list I'm toying with.

Rune Priest w/ Chooser, LL + JotWW
2x5 Wolf Scouts w/Melta
6 WG w/Fists + Combi Meltas
3x9 Grey Hunters w/Wolf Standard, Melta + Rhino
8 Grey Hunters w/Wolf Standard, Melta + Rhino
2x5 Grey Hunters w/Flamer + Lasplas Razorback
3x5 Long Fangs w/4 Missiles
1908

So, with my 92 pts I'm tempted to take either 4 scouts and buy two power weapons for them (to change their threat from minor to significant as they can now beat up infantry) or another razorback and chaff. Looking at this list, you can hopefully see why the mech is essential, but not important. I hope you can (if you can't I'm probably going to write an article on it anyway). And I hope this gives you all something to think about. People really underestimate how hard infantry can be. Especially marines. Even more so with cover. People also underestimate what assaults can do to vehicles, especially with power fists. Sure, it's easy to point to all the answers, but against an opponent who knows what he's doing, all you're doing is reducing the odds your vehicle dies, and reducing the amount of damage he takes. And he's on the good side of the ratio. Just something to share. ~Controversy!

Try it guys, it also helps in Kill Points. If you run an army with good troops (SW, BA +IG) try increasing their numbers a bit. But make sure they have a transport. That's kind of important.

So guys, hopefully now you'll see why I like E4 so much, and why if someone does it to me I go for a spanish opening or a Sicilian. Centre control is important, especially early game. If you can restric- Eh. What. Where's the rest of my-

CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!!!!!





P.s. This is a watered down version with less (i'm not getting rid of all of it, it's a cultural thing) swearing. If you want the full article, see http://kavzar.blogspot.com/ ;]

Comments (12)

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I enjoyed the article contents. Reads a bit like a train of thought as opposed to something intended for readers, but meh - I'm fine with that.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Well I did write it at about 3am. That may have been a large contributing factor. :D
I agree with everything said, and will be using the idea and list to base my 2000 point SW army off.

However. Giving the wolf scouts power weapons is silly. The 93 points would be better spent throwing a PW to each of the 8-9 man GH squads, and dumping the rest into melta bombs for the scouts (or what have you).

The argument that "Instead of having 4 scary assault squads, I have 6" is a pipe dream for the fact that, wolf scouts are scary for a whole different reason. That reason? Taking a melta to the opponents back line. Suddenly his Manticore, his stationary russes, his bassi's and other non-imperial related back-line huggers are now constantly looking over their shoulder and expecting to see wolf scouts.

And thats about as good as wolf scouts get. After that inital "Suprise!", you're left with a small group of 4+ saves, more often then not out of cover (Because how often do you see area terrain on the back line?) and open to whatever he's got laying around.
6 replies · active 742 weeks ago
The argument you put forward was "Well, I then charge whatever's inside the transport", but thats just it. Chances are you're gunning for something that isn't a transport (or you should be). There are very few instances where your opponent will leave a full transport on his back lines, or at least close enough to get the most effect from your melta. Instances like IG command squads sure, but a wolf scout charge will get them clean without the power weapon. Plus, you've already got a PF in the group. Long fangs are another instances, but long fangs are terri-bad in combat, and chances are they wont be putting up much of a fight after you drop a melta, just shy of half a dozen bolt pistol shots and then charge them with a fist.

So I propose you give your already close combat tooled Grey hunters power swords. Why? extra bite. They've got a fist already, and fists are good and they've already got a Banner (That thing that makes a bad roll not so bad) so why not a sword? You've already got the points, their purpose in life is to charge at things, they are fairly good at charging at things, why not make them better at charging things?
At best you're looking at 2-3 PW kills on the charge, and 1-2 after the fact (hard math, schmard math). Your mileage may vary, but in combat, every little bit counts. Plus you've got the power fist in there doing its thing. And the last thing you want (At least most times) is to be stuck in a protracted combat that grinds your 9-10 man squad down to a nub. Okay, sure, the regular attacks will go the distance, but again, the PW is insurance.

And, on a side note for those last 30 odd points you've got laying around. Upgrade your fists to hammers. From memory thats five points, and a hammer also gives you the 'if I hit you, you lose Init'' ability. Which is just like a hidden fist, only crunchier. (honestly couldn't remember if it was the hammer that didnt let you get the extra attack, or the fist or both)
Replying to this one as it's most relevant. If I wasn't buying extra wolf scouts, I'd be buying another unit anyway (so I'm ignoring the next part). Things you are likely to find in the back line:

Long Fangs, lasplas razors
Lootaz
Manticores, Hydras, Chimeras (giving them cover saves)
Devastators (from BA), Autolas Preds
Broadsides, pathfinders, crisis suits etc
Ravagers + Foot Warriors w/Lances
Dakka Preds

Then an additional thing you can usually charge:
Objective Cappers sitting at the 12" line.
What you'll notice is that out of 14 units I can already charge 7, and 2/14 likely have units inside that I can charge. So basically, your argument was "they're bad in about 25% of games so they're really bad." I'm paying a small amount of pts (45 per unit) to basically add a little bit of extra resilience, and make that powerfist running about your backfield really irritating. Having done the math, the Power Weapon is a tiny bit ahead, but I've decided I'm gonna go with an extra scout instead, just to make the unit even more irritating and survivable. We're talking like 0.2 wounds ahead on the power weapon here.

Note that all the units listed above, this wolf scout unit will be able to handle. Quite happily. Another thing. Multi charging in carparks is awesome. Especially something like *shoot chimmys in front of hydras, charge contents, put fist into hydras*.
As to the grey hunters, I wouldn't say they're combat tooled. Sure, they can beat up a lot of units, but at the point where you have 40 it becomes a wash really. You have units you'll either be able to take, or you wont be able to take. All that's really gonna change is the results vs an equal unit of GHs. That said, Power Weapons are such a minor difference, even then it'll be dicey.

And in reply to your post below this, you're looking at .75 kills from a power weapon if you charge. And .5 if you don't.
Well, I'm sold.

Well played, Scottsmen.
You may also want to consider another Rune Priest with the left over points. You can drop another Grey Hunter and have 7 points left. You can then pick up Tempest and Hurricane or Caller for a lot more flexibility and double the anti psych range.
2 replies · active 742 weeks ago
Another Rune Priest.... they suffer from diminishing returns I find. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have Hurricane and Tempest, but I don't think it's worth the 100pts (the first RP is worth it cause you need a HQ choice anyway). I'd rather have a Wolf Lord if I was going for a 2nd HQ. (:
Wait, what? No! It's living lightning and the additional power of your choice. With your Long Fangs not having armor to distract the firepower that tends to go after them, having that extra autocanon and a half with unlimited range is why you'd want the bastard.

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