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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Monday, February 7, 2011

Email in: a unique marine list i would really like some input on

I'm really behind on emails, there's just too many of them atm! I'm going to be doing a lot more replying back to the send which often won't have as much detail but I don't want 3++ to just become e-mails. They are a great filler and help with discussion at times but lately there's been more of these than significant articles. This will happen at times (i.e. when I don't have the time to write a fully fledged article which seems to be a lot lately lol) but I'd rather it not be the norm.

Anyway I'm posting this e-mail right now because it's a 'BoLS transfer' reader which I think is +1 for the 'BoLS experiment.' lol


I have just recently started reading your blog after it had been mentioned on BoLS and several podcasts and i have to say, this is now my FAVORITE 40k blog and i have been going through all your old articles. I think your Codex reviews are possibly the best ones i have read. (the Tyranid one being the best imho) They give very in depth and thought out opinions that make me reconsider some units i initially did not like.

After reading the Space Marine codex review, an article about infinity gate-ing TH/SS terminators, and your Vulkan article. These got me thinking about an army that used Vulkan to the max and had infinity gate terminators, I came up with this:

I'm glad you like the blog (let alone that it is your favourite). I'm sure Puppy will be glad to know you like his Tyranid review articles as well :). First thoughts on your concept...not going to work except at 2500. You just have too many points tied up in the Libby (100+), Vulkan (190) and Terminators (200-400) to make a really balanced list. It's a scary rock and the Libby is certainly a cheaper way of moving the Terminators around than a Land Raider. In the end it's the points and you either need to take the Libby or Vulkan. Let's look at the list.

1850 Space Marines

190 Vulkan:
140 Librarian: terminator armor, storm shield, null zone, gate of infinity
400 Terminators (10): thunder hammers, storm shields
200 Tactical Squad (10): power fist, meltagun, missile launcher
40 Rhino: dozer blade
200 Tactical Squad (10): power fist, meltagun, missile launcher
40 Rhino: dozer blade
200 Tactical Squad (10): power fist, meltagun, missile launcher
40 Rhino: dozer blade
130 Dreadnnought: multi-melta, heavy flamer, extra armor
65 Drop Pod: locator beacon, deathwind launcher
100 Land Speeder: multi-melta, typhoon launcher
100 Land Speeder: multi-melta, typhoon launcher

I have 5pts left over so i guess i give a Sgt. melta bombs or something. I can also lose the dozer blades on the rhinos to make the dread an Ironclad w/ meltagun

You run out of points quickly as seen by no Heavy Support choices which harks back to what I was saying before. Otherwise it's not too shabby. You've got some excess point spending here and there (MMs on the Typhoons, PFists on the Tacticals, EA on the Dread). What you really need to do is drop one of the HQs. Doesn't matter which but which one you do drop depends on how the rest of your army plays out. If you drop the Libby (leaving Vulkan), I'd look to get foot-slogging Dreads w/MM/HF and change the speeders to MM/HF. Any Dakka Preds you can afford will help your firepower immensely as well. The issue here is your list is rather slow, minimal on ranged firepower and isn't using Gate+Termies.

Dropping Vulkan then (leaving the Libby) gets you more points to play with and the Gate+Termies idea. What I'd do here is attempt to run 2x Dread (either 2x TLAC or 2x MM) with one Pod but have both the Dreads walk. You can use the Pod to teleport onto if you like but it's not too necessary again. From there I'd also add Dakka Preds and you've got a pretty decent 1850 Thunderbubble list. You've got a pretty strong scoring presence which could be minimised somewhat but otherwise this list moves up to midfield and parks itself there. Your opponent then has to remove ~10 vehicles, 30 Marines and 10 TH/SS Terminators which is no easy task. Your transports also give you mobility though your firepower isn't super hot.

The army works like this: You want to go second but going first is not that big a deal. Everything is deployed on the table (except the dread in drop pod obviously) but try and hide your army as much as possible. and have the librarian and Vulkan start out joining the terminator unit. On your turn 1 you drop pod hits, deploying the dread. Then you have the librarian use infinity gate with the terminators and Vulkan and have them land next to the drop pod and they do not scatter because of the locator beacon. So on your first turn you have 10 terminators with Vulkan, a librarian, a deathwind launcher drop pod, and a dread all in the opponents face. granted the terminators will have their asses stuck for a turn while an entire army shoots at them, but if anything can survive that it is storm shield terminators. You also have the deathwind launcher and dread to provide some shooting and other targets. PLUS you have the fire support from 3 tac squads and 2 land speeders helping out too! (that's 7 missile shots for those who are counting) The next turn you charge in and get to work with all the fancy twin liked melta, flamers, and thunder hammers. I think it is a pretty competitive list but that's just my opinion haha so I'm hoping for your opinion and thoughts.

Love the site and hope you give this list a look!


Marcos Cronander"

One problem here with Gate: the locator beacon has to be on the table the turn before you can use it. No Terminators teleporting with no scatter on T1 I'm afraid. The Deathwind launcher cannot shoot on the turn it drops either as the Drop Pod moves at cruising speed. Both would be nice but alas the rules restrict us! Again we look at what Vulkan brings and it's pretty minimal. It's nice to get master-crafted Thunder Hammers and re-rolls on those couple of melta shots but your army is basically waiting for T2 when it can get in your opponent's face with the Terminators and it doesn't have the killing power to reliably pressure your enemy to do so. Rather than looking at this as an aggressive list it's more of a midfield list with a bite (the Terminators). If your opponent is very defensive or passive you can put a lot more pressure than normal Marine mech thanks to the Terminators but if your opponent is going to be able to crush you when they reach you, you use the Terminators as a defensive screen and demand they go through it (i.e. goodluck).

Overall the major issue of the army list design is building around Gating Terminators. Gate is a great utility power and can make you very aggressive when used right. But building a list around it will often see your list fall on it's face when it doesn't work. What happens if someone destroys the Pod before you teleport, or you scatter (no homer) poorly or the psychic power gets blocked? None of these are that unlikely so your list needs to be able to operate with it succeeding which the changes certainly help with.

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