Kirb your enthusiasm!


"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Sunday, March 20, 2011

Email in: Returning to WH40k

"Hey Kirby (or however ends up replying to my email! :P )

I'm a returning player to the Universe of 40K. I haven't really played since the 3rd edition, and started back in the 2nd Edition. The first image I ever saw was the Rulebook with the Crimson Fists on the front, so my head filled with nostalgia I've decided to make my new first army a Crimson Fist one (My original first army was Blood Angels, but there seems to be so many of those around and I like to be a little bit different).

My renewed interest has come with my recent migration to your lovely home of Australia from the UK. Now back when I first started playing this was an expensive hobby and now it's even more so.... then I went into a local GW store in Brisbane... After the staff members picked me off the floor I realised it's just far to expensive to purchase from GW in OZ. So, where do you buy your miniatures from? Are there any decent online stores in Oz? I may end up buying from the US.

I reply to this e-mail in the full understanding that being British, you most likely haven't survived Australia this long. It happens. If you have allied yourself with some local Australians for protection from the native wildlife that assaults your home daily, well I would buy your stuff from Wayland in the UK. I generally get all my local hobbying stuff (paints, brushes, palette plates, green stuff, magnets, plasticard, actual books, etc.) locally and get all my models from overseas. If I'm buying from a company I've found Wayland generally is the cheapest and they quite often have 5%-10% extra discounts going. use the Banner at the top of the blog and check the update at the top top of the blog for discount codes. It generally takes 2 weeks to ship which is a pain but worth the 50-60% off you generally save.

"I'm relearning rules and have found your website very useful with the Back to Basics articles and your general lists articles are enlightening too.

So in light of the expense I want to plan my army right from the outset.... I have however not played any game since 3rd edition and no idea if any of my lists will be competitive, your insights are welcome! I want to keep it fairly fluffy too. (I will use magnets where possible to keep costs down too)"

Planning is great. Bear in mind though unless you are really strict, that planning will fall to pieces as you grab stuff you like that often doesn't fit into your list, or you just feel like expanding it, etc. Let's check the list.

HQ1- Librarian 100pts

Troop1 - 10x Tactical w/ Flamer, Missile Launcher & Power Fist - 195pts
Troop2 - 5x Scouts w/ Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher & Camo Cloaks - 100pts

Elite1 - Dreadnought w/ Multi-Melta & CCW - 105pts


Not much to say about this build, I didn't want to go normal 2 tactical squads due to Crimson Fists Fluff."

It's 500 points. Nothing wrong with it.

HQ1 - Pedro Kantor -165pts

Troop1 - 10x Tactical w/ Flamer, Lascannon & Melta Bombs - 185pts
Troop2 - 5x Scouts w/ Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher & Camo Cloaks - 100pts

Elite1 - 5x SS w/ 2x Plasma Cannons, RB TLLC - 220pts
Elite2 - 5x SS w/ 2x Plasma Cannons, RB TLLC - 220pts
Elite3 - Dreadnought w/ Multi-Melta & CCW - 105pts

Total: 995pts"

Plasma Cannons on thanks. You've got some pretty good firepower and scoring power but the Plasma Cannons are I'd look at missile launchers for the anti-tank/infantry duality. Otherwise still solid but it's at 1000 points so there will simply be lists you aren't going to be able to beat.

"Combat squad the tactical squad and use lascannon with RB's to open up any transports for the SS to hit the juicy bits inside. . Scouts will camp on any objectives towards end of game SS will mount up and hold an objective....Dreadnought to provide cover where needed.

HQ1 - Pedro Kantor -165pts
HQ2 - Librarian Epistolary w/ Terminator Armour & Storm Shield - 190pts

Troop1 - 10x Tactical w/ Flamer, Lascannon & power Fist - 205pts
Troop2 - 5x Scouts w/ Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher & Camo Cloaks - 100pts

Elite1 - 6x SS w/ 2x Plasma Cannons, RB TLLC - 245pts
Elite2 - 6x SS w/ 2x Plasma Cannons, RB TLLC - 245pts
Elite3 - 9x Assault Terminators w/ TH&SS - 360pts

Fast1 - 5x VV w/ Jump Packs, Power Weapons & 1x Melta Bombs - 240pts

Total: 1750pts"

Ah 1750. Now we're talking. First, drop the Vanguard. They are terrible in Space Marine lists as they have no Deep Strike bonuses. They are unreliable coming in from reserves and scatter a full 2D6" which makes their special ability pretty unreliable. The Epistolary upgrade isn't worth it for the majority of Librarian psychic powers either (and not sure what you've used here) otherwise you've upgraded the list without actually increasing your anti-tank or scoring potential but have increased your combat ability with a bunch of TH/SS. Doesn't really work for me.

If we take your 1000 list I'd be looking at taking a MotF (access to more Dreads), a 3rd Sternguard squad and then 2-3 Dreads in Heavy Support (they are used in Crimson Fists as I recall with regularity). Keep the Sternguard with Missile Launchers or Lascannons and use the Dreads as midfield + combat support. With any excess points get some Land Speeders or Attack Bikes and give the Tactical squad a Rhino (for 35 points, why not?).

For the Razorbacks as well I'd generally run LasPlas instead of TLLC (this goes for 1000 as well). Two weapon systems and triple the shots at certain ranges is invaluable. Also look at combi-meltas on all the Sternguard without a heavy weapon.

"Same as 1000pts, use lascannons to open up transports and SS to churn up the innards, Assault Terminators team with Libby and IOG there way across the table, Libby uses Avenger before assault phase to thin the crowd. VV will drop in behind enemy lines with deep strike and use heroic intervention to tie up anything that's out flanking me or act as an annoying distraction unit. Scouts will hold objectives with help of VV.

Your input and guidance is very welcome.


Pedro makes TH/SS pretty scary with 3A base essentially but with Terminators + Sternguard + Pedro you've got a lot of points sunk into them. I'd rather see Pedro's +1A ability be an assault deterrent and to maximise his ability to make Sternguard scoring so you can sink more points into Fast Attack/Heavy Support, both of which you really haven't used in either of your lists. With some point fiddling you should be able to get something along the lines of:

MotF w/Beamer
5x Scouts
10x Tacs + Rhino
3x5x Sternguard w/RBack
2x Typhoons
3x Dread

You've still got some combat deterrents with Dreads whilst still having the firepower from the Speeders, Dreads, Sternguard and Razorbacks. Scoring is a little bit light and one of the small Sternguard squads could be turned into a full Tactical squad which gives you a fair amount of MEQ bodies in midfield.

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