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Tuesday, April 19, 2011

Email in: GK Terminators and Techmarines?


"Hey Kirby

Just wanted to say thanks for running your blog - I really find it informative and I'm sure to check it every day. A great place to pick up new ideas in a friendly environment!

Anyways, I've been considering running a Grey Knights Terminator-heavy list - preferrably just Terminators as troops, in the 1500 (or maybe 2000) point range. I know your not a big fan of the GK Terminators, but I've been trying to think of how this could work.

Basically, I started with the idea of a deep striking list - using a Libby with teleport homer as a safety net, and perhaps also a GK Master or Captain to bring everything down safely by turn 3 (through Psychic Communion). I toyed with Mordrak but basically think he's a bit pricey and moved away from that idea.

I would also like to run 1-2 Dreadknights with the list, as I think they mesh nicely with Terminators. Again, I know that many think they are not the most sound choice but at 130 they are reasonable value I think.


Finally, what about running a Techmarine with a GKT squad? That idea really appeals to me - they can add so much close combat potential to the unit - but sadly they can't deep strike and there is no option for giving them TDA...

Any thoughts of how a list like this could be made, and if possible how such a list could be played? Although my original thought was to run the list all Deep Striking, the more I'm thinking about the Techmarine idea I'm moving towards deployed the army on the table instead...

Cheers for any advice

Gorman"


The Grey Knight codex really made Techmarines useful. They are expensive but bring some awesome grenades which can really improve the combat ability of units. GKT units in combat are looking to wipe units out before they get to strike back but are still shooting units first. Remember that.

A core of GKT + Dreadknights I think is fine. I'd go with a Librarian as your HQ to provide things like Shrouding, Sanctuary and Summoning as well as powers like Might and Quicksilver to improve the ability of GKT in combat. From there you can add Techmarines for improved combat punch, Paladins for a better GKT unit and Interceptors for more bodies and increased mobility.

Let's start off with a base of a Librarian with 3 skulls and the five powers above, two full GKT units with double psycannons, two hammers, eight halberds and psybolt ammo and two bare bone Dreadknights. This comes to 1390 points. We'll add in two small Interceptor squads at 155 each (psycannon + MC hammer) which takes us to 1700 and then look towards our Techmarines. A techmarine with Rad and psykotroke grenades costs 115 points so we'll take two and have already hit 1930 points. Let's check it out:

Libby w/Quicksilver, Summoning, Shrouding, Sanctuary, Might, 3x Skulls
2x Techmarine w/Rad, Psykotroke grenades
2x10x GKT w/2x psycannons, 8 halberds, 2 hammers, psy bolt ammo
2x5x Interceptors w/psycannon, MC hammer
2x Dreadknight

With 70 points to spare we can add in Heavy Incinerators on the Dreadknights or grab an Inquisitor with Psychic Communion/TDA/psycannon/etc. The Techmarines make the GKT more effective in combat but aren't a necessity in this list. The aforementioned Inquisitor could run the same role of Grenade slinger for much cheaper (but you only get one) and you could use the excess points to get another DK, Interceptor or GKT squad. Personally I would look to do this if I were going the more competitive route but if you're set on Techmarines that's fine as well.

To scale this down you'd need to drop a techmarine and turn one of the GKT squads into a 5-man squads instead of 10-man.

Comments (11)

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I'd drop the Techies in this list and use the points for something else. Maybe a GKGM with the same grenades.
In my view, a Terminator-based GK force needs either a)Fast melta or b)long-range S8+ weaponry. Consider - no one played Deathwing because the only anti-tank they had was 24" Assault Cannons, and they had no good invulnerable saves in close combat. Once they got Typhoon Missile Launchers that fired two shots, and normal 3++ storm shields, people started playing them again.

This is the issue that the GK all-Terminator (or all Paladin) force needs to deal with. Sure, your Termies are great, but a 4++ at best in combat (or 2 attacks at I6) and no ranged firepower greater than a +strength assault cannon means that they have the same weaknesses as old Deathwing did.

What's the solution? For me, it means Dreadnoughts. Psyflemen give you that S8 multi-shot firepower that TMLs do in the Deathwing lists. Unfortunately, there's no great replacement for Ravenwing squads and their fast melta, but VenDreads with meltas or psyfles might do the trick - I suspect the melta versions are too slow though. The psychic powers of GK are much better though, and Shrouding is excellent. I would be tempted to take some cheap squads of henchmen to screen the Termies - in conjunction with Shrouding, that's a 3+ cover save that most heavy firepower isn't getting through, and you're pretty capable in combat still.
Dark Angels don't have either heavy 2 C.M.L or 3++ Storm Shields. In Swedish tournaments they do, for the sake of making all Space Marine Gear the same, but by Codex they don't. And you cannot force your opponent to accept them as having as such.
2 replies · active 744 weeks ago
They do now. FAQ was updated a couple months back to represent this.
Oooooh! Seems I sold of my deathwing too early xD Dang.
Oh well, at least I now have some pretty golden Blood Angels.
I really like this list...I really want a GKT based army but have struggled to get enough boots on the board as we mainly play 1500....at that points level 2 monstrous creatures will cause a lot of havoc. Its a shame the heavy psycannon is a bit meh...
2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
buemmschaf's avatar

buemmschaf · 744 weeks ago

The HPC is fine, it's just not really an antitank weapon. However, putting down a 5'' blast 7/4 rending template does wonders against infantry, especially when you follow up by jumping in and punching the survivors in the throat at str10.
Only problem with the heavy psycannon is actually that it's kinda drowned out by all the storm bolters & force weapons. Concentrated anti-infantry fire isn't really necessary when every last GK and his aunt carries a storm bolter into battle.
So, in a way you're right - the GK are absolutely spoilt for choice regarding anti-infantry, so another might sound a bit meh. Unless of course you go mass inquisitional warbands, playing around with monkeys and servitors. Them aybe some extra anti-infantry templates might be useful.
It lacks the duality of the normal psycannon because of the template - if it was say heavy 6 instead, it would be a solid choice I feel...
Sir_Prometheus's avatar

Sir_Prometheus · 744 weeks ago

So......Kirby, you made the guy a Deep Strike list.....and then didn't include anyone with Psychic Communion. I think if we have learned anything, it's that DS armies, or any reserve based army at all really, need some way to control what comes in at what time, or at worst just have more of it come down sooner.

I also like techmarines, but I don't think they makes sense as merely some way to carry grenades. (though I agree, that's awesome.) They make a lot of sense charging out a land raider (which they can also repair), among dreadnoughts (ditto) or in ruins amongst a gun line army of some kind. (maybe without the grenades, then) This build, you're just wasting too much of their potential.

You really need to switch one out, either for a GM or captain, with communion, and grenades, or a cheap Xenos Inquisitor with the same. Even then, you're kinda wasting half a techmarine
1 reply · active 744 weeks ago
It's not a DS army. You can DS the DK or Interceptors for some mobility but the core of the list (the GKT) should start on the table more often than not. Getting rid of 20 models with 2+/3+ cover is pretty hard. Use summoning to improve the pace of your army overall, skulls to make summoning more reliable + utility against infiltrators, etc.

But yes, if you were going to make a DS list communion is a must. When adding an Inq into this list and taking out the Techmarines you can easily do this to make the DKs more reliable if you do DS them, etc.

Again, I said the Techmarines weren't really optimal in this build and Biscuit has expanded upon it in his post.
I really like Techmarines in a Inquisitorial list, as they can give Grenades AND ATSKNF to an Assault unit of Henchmen. DCA supported with Rad and Psyko grenades, ATSKNF, and the Techmarine providing 2 S8 attacks for use vs Dreads. Only problem is that with such an expensive model with 1 Wound and no Invuln save, I feel compelled to spend the extra 25 for the Warding Stave so he doesn't just get slapped aside in CC.

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