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Saturday, May 21, 2011

Australia Games Workshop responds



From warmgamerAU.com via Facebook group.

Dear Anthony,

Thanks for contacting Games Workshop about the change in our trading terms for European accounts. I know this has frustrated you and for that I am truly sorry. As a long standing customer, you deserve to know why we made this decision.

As you know, we introduce people to the Games Workshop hobby of collecting, painting and gaming with Citadel miniatures through our Hobby Centres and local independent trade accounts. Games Workshop Hobby Centres run introductory games and painting sessions, beginner lessons, hobby activities and events. We provide all these services free of charge. We only recover this investment if customers then buy products from us.


Where we don't have a Games Workshop Hobby Centre, we support local independent trade accounts. These businesses provide a convenient place for customers to buy our products close to where they live. We support these businesses with local customer service teams and warehouses to ensure customers have immediate access to our best selling products and new releases. Many customers discover the hobby this way.

In addition we invest millions of pounds every year in our design studio and factory to ensure that each month we release more new products. This makes the Games Workshop Hobby more exciting for existing customers, helping them stay in the hobby longer. We can only afford to do this because of the volume of customers we have recruited and developed through our local Hobby Centres and trade accounts.

It is for this reason that we have changed our European Trade terms. Over recent years, a number of currencies have moved a long way from their historical relative values, and this has opened the door for some traders to try to take advantage of these currency movements and offer deep discounts to overseas hobbyists. This has been the case with European internet traders selling to some of our customers overseas.

While this may seem great in the short term, the simple fact is that European internet traders will not invest any money in growing the hobby in your country. Their model is to minimise their costs and free-ride on the investment of Games Workshop and local independent shops in creating a customer base.

We on the other hand have to keep paying our Australian staff, rents and utilities in Australian dollars. While some customers have suggested we halve our prices, the only way we could do that is if we halve our Australian staff's salaries, default on our rents and not pay our suppliers until exchange rates move back into alignment. That's the reality of what a price reduction of this scale means. And we both know that customers who are motivated by price are not going to change their behaviour if it was any less than that.

The inevitable consequence if this was allowed to continue is that Games Workshop would not be able to operate Hobby Centres, nor to support local trade accounts. And if this happened in more territories outside Europe, the loss of volume would leave Games Workshop no choice but to scale back our investment in new product development, further eroding our customer base. Not something that we or our customers would want us to do.

That is why we took the decision to take legitimate action to restrict European trade accounts from selling the goods they purchase from Games Workshop outside Europe. None of the other alternatives were viable.

While I understand that you may still be unhappy with our decision, it was taken to ensure we can continue to support the Games Workshop hobby communities around the world through our Games Workshop Hobby Centres and local trade accounts. And to ensure we continue to invest in developing the best possible new product releases every month. I hope therefore that over time you will see the benefits of this decision for you and your hobby.

Yours sincerely,

Mark Wells

Chief Executive

18 May 2011

Comments (86)

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Katie Drake's avatar

Katie Drake · 724 weeks ago

That... is actually incredibly logical.
3 replies · active 724 weeks ago
It is, apart from the single fact that the base cost of the item to add calculations to should not be UK RRP, it should be UK GW DRP.
This is where the maths falls over from what I can see.

UK DRP (for instance 1/2 RRP) + shipping + rent + wages + profit on a box of tactical marines:
11.50 (1/2 of 23 pound RRP) + 6 pounds (fairly generous amount if you are shipping the volumes they would) = 17.50 quid.
This = about $25 AUD. A box is $62 AUD RRP. My maths in this example shows a profit margin before expenses of $37 - or 130-odd%.

I'm no maths or economics guy, but work in Small Business IT Support and have to understand how to do Profit analysis's for both customers (ROI) and for the company (are we charging enough).

I'm not going to say "highway robbery"...
Logical, but I don't think his maths is correct, which debunks his 'theory' or rationale.

GW can afford to make, and _profit on_, money on Maelstrom selling its stuff for less than GW does in its stores in the UK.
If that is so, then jacking Maelstrom's prices up by 200% to sell in an Aussie GW really smells off.
GW store in the UK, is what, 20% over Maelstrom games?
This includes profit and all the "free"* stuff that GW gives away at the store, like painting tips, etc.

GW has to jack up the price by 50% of what it costs in the UK? Pull the other one.

*Now lets assume GW does give away all this free stuff, like painting tips etc and it is all factored into the cost. Which actually means it isn't free at all, so stop pretending like it is good will. When something is giving away for free, it costs the giver, and is not included in a marked up price.

Then they have jacked up their prices on everything, to cover that cost. Well isn't that convenient. That flagfall for 'free' help doesn't get waved if you have nothing to do with the the GW staff does it?
Everyone pays for it, but not everyone pays for it. I don't have much sympathy for such spin and such taxing of customers.

My local independent store, staffed by Aussies running in an Aussie shop, offer a 20% discount on the GW half hour away. They are just as helpful, talk to you about fluff and _don't_ harass you into buying their products.

I really am having a hard time buying such "incredible logic" when I look closer ;)
what shop is that and were is there internet site
I cannot possibly believe that it costs that much more to operate in Australia.

Aussies - do you guys somehow get paid enormous sums to work in retail stores?
16 replies · active 724 weeks ago
Slate_Blank's avatar

Slate_Blank · 724 weeks ago

Yes. Look up Australian minimum wage and compare to US for example. Will astound you.
You were correct. I was astounded. $15AUS $16US. Wow.
Living wage isn't the thing that hits hardest, if the US government forced british-style single payer, all businesses could probably afford to raise wages to a living wage, or an equivalently higher level. It's mostly just the combo of having such a large level of unemployed people, and not being interested in releasing a quality product over a ton of product that means lower and even mid-level people get paid nothing, while the top of the pyramid gets paid a ton.

Note this doesn't answer the massive increase in prices, so this doesn't answer a bit question relating to LGSes, namely, weither people in a crappy economy CAN AFFORD TO BUY THEIR MODELS.
Ah yeah, but we dont do tipping _at all_, so take that into account as well.

Traditionally with the weaker dollar, our minimum wage was ~$10-11 USD ($15aud/hr)
Considering tipping is pretty much compulsory, and we having higher wages, as you say, the gap is not so big.
Tipping isn't a factor in retail though. And in the US minimum wage for a job with tips is around $3 (I think).
Minimum wage may not equal GW wage. Fast food chains like MacDonalds pay minimum wage in Australia. Their staff consists of unskilled labour.

What we need to know is what the difference in wages between Aussie and UK GW staff.
It's actually the huge import tariffs that account for most of it.

That and their huge trade imbalance.

Think to yourself for a moment: what are Australia's main exports?

There is a reason they built a world class opera house and spend so much on encouraging tourism!
Natural resources and agriculture.
wine. delicious wine
Beef, cotton, food, Crocodile based celebrities (Crocodile Dundee, Crocodile Hunter).
Convicts (oh wait we import those) and deadly shit too.

Drop bears you know?
Heat seeking sting rays and baby snatching dingoes. Gotta love Ozlandus.
Roland Durendal's avatar

Roland Durendal · 724 weeks ago

terrorism...

Oh wit wrong country!

They export hot women and surfers.
I still think they should at least try to scale back the prices. After all, they're still ridiculously high.

But still... that is a surprisingly reasonable answer.
Perhaps they should close all their retail stores like every reasonable person has suggested.
I agree with the above sentiments, but I'm sure GW doesn't have to raise its prices every year, atm there doesn't seem to be a limit which is very worrying. But the letter goes far in explaining their decision over the trade embargo, hopefully we'll get one that focuses more on the prices increases.
1 reply · active 724 weeks ago
Main difference here is that they're raising prices above inflation and that'll hit LGSes hard. While this letter makes sense for the former, the latter better have a damned good reason for existing. Then there's the rumour gagging (hopefully they'll release enough info to make rumours less necessary).
Problem isn't the ban on european shipping. That's a symptom. The real issue is the cost of boxes which should be about $45, and are $62 (AU).

=/
they are aware that continuing to anger the foreign player base through paying higher amounts than overseas, annual price rises and restrictions will also destroy there consumer base,
SneakyDan's avatar

SneakyDan · 724 weeks ago

I also received the above email, but mine was a little more personalized after the corporate reply. Apparently Mr Wells is a rugby player, because he responded to my past as a representitive player, which I'd mentioned as the reason I'd returned to the hobby. He goes on a bit further in mine, stating that GW didn't want to have to do this, and that they can't control exchange rates. It's a perfectly logical letter, and I appreciate it from a business standpoint.

I have written back, outlining some of my ideas as to how they can improve the business in Oz, through the following measures:

Pricing - this shit is not cheap. I've asked for a company statement regarding why its so much more expensive in Australia, and explained the following(this is all paraphrased, by the by). Aussie Razorback = $55 AUD, UK Razorback = $28AUD after exchange rates. I would happily pay $35-40 for said razorback, but $27 dollars more is unreasonable to cover overheads.

GW's own online store - Basically, GW AU should have an online store that reflects these prices as well, and offers free shipping. This same store should also offer price breaks for larger sales ($150 and and increments above that). This would encourage army buyers to spend online, to receive somewhat of a discount.

Lastly is prize support - a personal bugbear. US tournies get vouchers, but we dont?

I'll see if i get a response, im not hopeful.
1 reply · active 724 weeks ago
The thing is Dan, you -did- offer solutions and that's definitely a great step in the right direction. I'd expect another response as it seems like they want to establish some sort of dialogue with the customer at large.

Also Kudos to Wells for taking the time to personalize these. It's a nice touch.
Imports circumvent this. Why spend $100 on a new game on a console, when you can go online and get the correct amount?
Even purchased off steam the suppliers jack the prices.

There is no logical reason we pay $100 AUD for a $50USD game, that's just how it has always been.
Lurking Horror's avatar

Lurking Horror · 724 weeks ago

Nobody knows. Except that apparently we're a decent target to gouge.
There's a fault in the logic here: while local retailers will get a sales boost, overall, GW will be selling less products. If an Aussi could afford two Razorbacks thanks to Maelstrom, he can now only afford one due to Oz prices. The ban won't make people suddenly have more money to spend on the hobby.
5 replies · active 724 weeks ago
And if they get the same amount of money but only have to make 1 Razorback, this is bad for GW how?
So what you're saying is that Mr Wells is spouting bullshit? How shocking!
That is actually incorrect. Games Workshop's margin is very, very small when they sell to local retailers. For example, AoBR being $90. Games Workshop's cost is probably around $35-40 for that kit. Then they have to have the retailers buy it from them for about $45. Generally speaking, "cost" to retailers/distributors is roughly 50% of suggested retail price from the manufacturer. That gives GW a "profit" of only $5. Whereas, if they sold themselves, they'll be getting $90 for the kit and making a $50 profit on it.

So that means if those two Maelstrom kits sold, Games Workshop would make $10. However, if GW sold ONE kit at one of their stores, they'd make $50. Maelstrom would have to sell 10 kits to match the profit margin of one kit being sold directly from GW. Sounds like the better deal to me. While its not in GW's best interest to eliminate the independent retailer, they prefer if you buy directly from them. But as the executive said, LGS's are the prime places for creating new players and providing a place for them to play.
Ya, what I was trying to hint at (and failed, it would seem) is that Mr Wells is trying to pull the wool over our eyes...
This really depends on how you define Margin. The cost of production and shipping of most kits is only like 15% of the retail price. AoBR retailed for 60 so it certainly costs no more than 30 dollars to deliver to a trade account. So they would be making 15 dollars per sale. Now if you include the GW Store overhead in the trade account cost I could see the low margin you talk about but that is not fair since the store has to buy his own overhead out of the difference between wholesale and retail he should not be charged for the GW retail store overhead. From what I have heard the trade accounts are almost always highly profitable even generating only half the cash per sale.

In many areas GW has done fine in spite of its Stores not because of them. I have never had a good retail experience in their stores.
So I live in South America and there is no actual development, heck, not even a damn hobby centre anywhere in the whole subcontinent. But I still have to pay premium for 'Free' Customer Service "around the world". Funny that, I have yet to see a single red shirt here.

So the first world struggles with the results of 25 years of savage, unchecked liberalism and globalization, and we not only had to pay dearly in LIVES (starvation, poverty, lack of healthcare etc.) while they turned their backs on us, we ALSO have to bear the burden of GW's losses.
1 reply · active 724 weeks ago
Not to mention we'll also tell you how to live your lives.
The response does explain the relatively higher prices in Australia. They believe they need a retail presence in order to build the player base in Australia. Rent and labor costs more in Australia. I believe import tariffs are also very high in Australia. So they have to have a higher retail price in Australia.

They explain that the embargo on shipping out of Europe is to protect the local retailers which they believe are necessary to grow the player base in Australia.

Sackofowls brought up a great comparison. Video games in Australia cost nearly twice as much as in the US. LA Noire is $108AUS in Gamestop's AU online shop and I imagine their retail shop too. I imagine many other things are more expensive too relative to the US and Europe.
1 reply · active 724 weeks ago
Lukismness's avatar

Lukismness · 724 weeks ago

L.A. Noire can be bought for $78AUS, pew pew.
Stucarius's avatar

Stucarius · 724 weeks ago

What in the world are you guys calling this reasonable talking about?

The, the USD, the Canada Dollar and the Euro are all almost exactly the same value. GW is full of it. They are exploiting a market with no geographic options. They have artificially based their prices on a currency that is not one of the world standard currencies any longer. The GBP and as a result they have created a gigantic disparity in the pricing models for their products all over the world.

The European courts are going to hammer them on this. They will just be the most recent in a long line of companies to get handed their heads for this kind of predatory currency gouging. The courts take this stuff very very seriously because the integrity of relative values in currency is extremely important international trade and there are many many treaties of which The U.K. is no doubt part that enforce these standards.

Our next price hike may come to cover the cost of GW's fines for violating international law. Not that I think it will matter. There is an email and letter writing campaign to send complaints directly to the 5 major institutional investors that represent 75% of GW's ownership. That and the gigantic drop in sales the combination of the price hikes in the middle of a recession coupled with these new trade policies will be GW's poison pill already.

Here is the link to the addresses and identities of the GW ownership: http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2011/05/who-owns-g...

Write them and tell them how disappointed you are as a customer. Get pressure placed on GW management to change these policies and price suicide.
1 reply · active 724 weeks ago
They use GBP because they are a british company, not even a particularly large british company. The above letter was not about USD canada dollar or euro. This new embargo does not effect players in any of these countries. Gouging and price fixing or whatever you are accusing them of would suggest they are rolling in the money, they have been making small profits or losses in recent years so it simply isnt true.

The cost of models in Australia to some extent will be based on the additional costs of operating there rather than solely on currency differences. I cant see any international laws that they are breaking. I know of no law international or otherwise that stops you pricing your goods at random based on what colour countries are in your atlas, as long as you dont have a monopoly or are organizing prices with competitors.
i got no gw in my country (at least for 10 years) and i am still hit by the embargo

so what the fuck?
6 replies · active 724 weeks ago
Welcome to the world of WTF... grab some gloves and lub and get to work. We all know GW likes it that way.
Though in all honesty I will still continue to buy GW products at the increased price. Just means it will take me even longer to collect any new armies (bye bye Dante-wing). Some of the staff are great while others get under my skin. But as we all know plastic crack is great and it is very hard to break an addiction.

Messanger
So I have a new list, but am undecided: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?show...
see post #15

Stelek didn't like the one we came up with, but didn't really say why. Lol.

This new one has 2 Melta guns
5 Multi Meltas
2 Flamers
2 Heavy Flamers
3 Auto Cannons
5 Las Cannons
2 C Missile Launchers
4 Heavy Bolters

Which I think is pretty good ლ(╹◡╹ლ)
I didn't like the one I suggested either. Was running with the theme you had presented with plasma cannons lol. I disdain all versions of plasma weapons. However, I like the list Stelek suggests and going to steal it :)
You like 130 pt LasBacks?
Are they even points efficient at 100 pts?
I get it, but if anything is getting PotMS, should it not be a Pred or Vindi?

The melta guns cannot even fire from their transports! You guys have be drilling me on Mech > Foot and how important it is to bunker up, yet are breaking that rule.

Signed, Mr. Con Fused.
You don't like my 2 x Dakkanators, 3 MM bunker, 3 Typhoon list?

Q_Q
Kommon Cents's avatar

Kommon Cents · 724 weeks ago

This letter explains very clearly the policy of restricting trade. The example by Marshal Laeroth is incorrect. having worked in high finance, many times involving funding to start up manufacturing the typical markup to resellers is still around 40 to 50% . If they sell it themselves they make far closer to 100% or above on RRP in their own stores. Look at the GW balance sheets in the annual report. I don't have it handy at the moment but if memory serves me right the dividends payout and reduced costs point to a healthy profit margin from all sales - in house and to resellers. No company can stay in business only making $5 per kit. You would have to sell 500 million units ot there abouts to have the profit levels GW has after expenses and liabilities. This is not an attack on Marshal but rather setting the facts straight. By the by the last finacing i did was a $5,000,000 dollar funding of a bakery and there the margins on a loaf of bread are $1.50 to $4.00 a loaf and all the bread goes through resellers (grocery chains). the reason resellers can create discounts is due to overpricing by GW in the first place, that is why in my opinion Gw doesn't address the price hikes but the embargo only.
2 replies · active 724 weeks ago
I don't know the exact markup, nor do I know the actual production cost of each kit. And I don't know how much each independent retailer pays GW for their kits. I giving a broad example, using even numbers to illustrate the point.

However, I do know that most retailers do markup the price 40-50%, as you said (which I said as well in my original message). This is both from having close relations with several LGS owners (one being a direct relative), as well as general practices in retail (I used to manage a retail store). While you are probably correct in the fact that they aren't making $5 a kit, it certainly isn't anywhere close to what they would be making if they were selling it themselves.

I was given a very specific example of the LGS profit margin (which has been confirmed by several others), that these stores need to sell THREE kits before the LGS turns a profit. Until that point, they are working to break even. And that isn't even counting any applicable discounts the store may give out that requires them to sell more kits before a profit margin is made. ;)

In comparison, I was told that it took the store only TWO kits from Privateer Press/Malifaux/Reaper Minis to turn a profit. Food for thought. :P
Kommon Cents's avatar

Kommon Cents · 724 weeks ago

I think we are on the same page. What GW is doing is overcharging their resellers in OZ. Now if you need to sell three kits to turn a profit there is something very wrong. Each kit should turn a profit and than that profit is applied to overhead and final margin is achieved. Cost of Goods sold is always what should be looked at. if you are bringing in goods that do not generate enough profit to cover your COGS then youu need to stop carrying that product. By your example it is only by the third kit that a net profit is generated and that speaks to pricing structure wich brings the example right back to the issue of GW overcharging the resellers. Again the ONLY WAY GW WILL EVER LEARN is to vote with your wallet. Thanks for the discourse. i think one day GW will be seen in the same light as GM except there will be no government bailout to rescue them.
So the unfluffy answer is this:

1. No we're not going to lift the embargo
2. We want to you pay double the price to provide money for staff they are reducing in stores Australia Wide.
3. We really want to support you by only giving you one option of where to buy from so we can make more money

I call bullshit of them and I'm sorry I'm done...
There are no import tariffs in New Zealand. We are an open market. Our average income (after conversion) is the same as the UK. We still pay more than 50% more per item than they pay in the UK.
1 reply · active 724 weeks ago
And in South America and most of Asia there aren't any GW stores either, so that line of reasoning falls flat for those regions as well.
Mont'au Mal'caor's avatar

Mont'au Mal'caor · 724 weeks ago

Dear Games Workshop:

Looking to save yourself and consumers a ton of money? Kill LotR already!
1 reply · active 724 weeks ago
that'd go over great since the Hobbit is about to come out....
GW gives their staff, atleast in NZ, a 50% discount on products. Which means cost of product to the retail store is probably in the 25-30% range.

If we were to assume for a moment that GW were to sell products at cost price to their staffies, that would mean the regular price was at 100% mark up? But few companies offer cost price to employees, so we can only assume cost is cheaper than discount price, meaning mark up is over 100%, minimum.

Also, is their a "retail cost" and a "supplier cost" at GW? Obviously any retail business, like a book store, has a cost price of, for example, $10 from the supplier, who in turn have a real cost price of $5. After all, the supplier needs to make a profit too. But since GW are both the supplier and the retailer, what cost price are things being based off? Is GW-supplier making a profit from GW-Retail, who then make a profit off of GW-customer?
1 reply · active 724 weeks ago
They give UK staff a 50% discount as well. My friend that works in a supermarket gets a 10% staff discount. That shows what sort of profit margin they are making on direct sales. I do not know the costs they charge to the independent stores but I guess it is about 65% of retail since most of them offer a 20% discount.
After I read this:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/05/gw-news-wh...

I laughed. To sum it up, buy your toys at your FLGS or GW, support them, don't abuse online shopping and kill the store.

Your bag of chips cost $4 and I can get them for a $1 at US? Damn your cost of living is high.
20%? I crunched the numbers a couple years and it was closer to 37% for us up here on average. But yes, it reads mostly as false reasoning.
Pure bullshit.
If they wanted more sales, they'd price their models to be afforadable. If they wanted to keep ticking, they'd ditch their useless stores.
If the much-tooted stores were so important to them for 'recruitment,' they'd not downsize most of them to one-man operations.
7 replies · active 724 weeks ago
The thing you don't acknowledge is that they don't strictly want more sales. They want more profit. Frequently you can make more profit by selling less product for a higher price. GW is not best of by selling the most it can. It's best off by selling a certain amount of product at a certain price based on their revenue and cost structure.

Pricing really isn't as simple as people are making it out to be.
Yes, it is.
Very high price on luxury items, made for rich people. Fine.
Very high price on hobby-thingies (toy soldiers, paint, glue, gear), made for kids and young adults. Dumb.
This is just an oversimplification and just plain wrong. GW could very well make more profit by increasing prices and selling fewer items. It's based on their cost structure and where they are currently selling at on their demand curve.
But GW corporate structure is high overhead(stores and factories) and low incremental cost of production (the next piece of plastic is cheap once the machine is tooled) so selling more is going to be better as it averages the high overhead over more units. Also the product has a network affect where more people play and hence buy when they know people who also play. You cannot really play table top games by yourself.
Both things are true. The network effect is certainly there and it is probably one of the big limiting factors in the sales of it's competitors products.

One thing to consider though, despite the presumably low cost of additional plastic for models and additional payments for the packaging and labels, there is a limiting factor to how much you can produce at a low cost.

The produce their models in the UK (or at least my Aegis Defense Line box say so). Say they have 10 (totally made up) molds for one line and they are running at close to maximum capacity for one shift of workers. You can produce a bit more at low cost per model by running the molds up to maximum capacity for one shift of workers. However, to produce more you are either going to have to pay for another shift of workers or for overtime for the first shift of workers to run at above capacity on your molds. This would increase the cost of the units beyond your initial capacity. Alternatively you could invest and buy more molds and increase your capacity for one shift of labor which would also increase the cost and this is a long run decision, not a short run decision.

While you are absolutely right in your post, as I said before in my post to VT2, pricing and output decisions are not as easy as many people I've seen posting about GW's pricing changes and European export changes are willing to acknowledge. People want to pretend it's as simple as "lower price, sell more, more profit," but it really is not.

These decisions are very complex and the only entity that has all the information necessary to make those decisions is GW. Just by looking at their pricing changes, you can see that it wasn't an across the board increase in prices, so you can see that the decision is deliberate and targeted. Whether or not they made the decision correctly is something that can certainly be argued, specially once we see their 2011 annual statement, but making these over simplified claims about pricing isn't the best way to go about discussing this topic.
Lurking Horror's avatar

Lurking Horror · 724 weeks ago

So the fact that the "internet traders" Games Workshop is so intent to shut down are making more money by having higher turnover doesn't enter into the equation?

Yes, higher profit per item means you have to sell less product to make the same money. But if you reduce profit per item in line to make actual sale prices affordable, the pickup they would gain in turnover would more than offset that percentage reduction to return a higher overall amount.
The pricing model for a distributor and a manufacturer are not at all similar. Typically, a distributor's cost for obtaining more of one product is cheaper than obtaining less of that same product for resale due to block discounting. Although this isn't always the case and I don't claim to know what GW's distributor pricing model is.

Really the only way for a distributor to make more money is to either increase his profit margin (by obtaining the product at a lower price by buying a lot), or buy lowering prices to sell a greater volume. They are not going to run into the problem of having increasing costs for each extra unit they obtain for resale.

However, GW will have a certain capacity, where if they reach it, the cost for each additional unit produced will be greater than the last one produced. Which is why they are better off finding a sweet spot where they are selling the correct number of units at a price above their marginal costs to make maximum profit.

They can't just reduce prices to sell more because after a certain amount of units sold, the cost to manufacture each additional product will increase past a certain amount, and this will decrease their profits.
It would help me a lot if someone from Australia could copy/paste what follows, and substitute AUSD for themselves instead of GBP.

Minimum Wage is £5.85 per hour. Someone on this salary will bring in slightly less than £11,000 per annum assuming they work 35 hours per week. This is the kind of wage people working in supermarkets earn.

Semi-skilled or BA/BSC Graduate work can be in the £8.00-£12.00 per hour range, averaging from £15,000 per annum up to £24,000 for competent people in decent jobs. A good, educated to university level young person can expect to reach that in a "normal" profession by their late 20s.

A battleforce here is about to cost £60 after the price rise. This is the amount of money I (on an ~£8.00 per hour job) can afford to spend on little plastic men if I saved up for about two weeks. If I earned a bit more (say £10 per hour) then I could maybe afford to buy that in just one week, assuming my cost of living didn't rise.

I am curious as to how different it is for people in Australia. Is the Warhammer hobby a much bigger investment for you than for us? If so, how do you afford it?
3 replies · active 724 weeks ago
MeatPuppet's avatar

MeatPuppet · 724 weeks ago

Hi, I'm an Aussie who is currently working in the UK. As I've posted before, when I moved over here I took more than a 34% pay cut (in net wages if you directly compare the currency values) and yet I find that I have more in the bank at the end of each month to use for hobby/savings than I did in Aus.

While wages in Australia are generally higher (at least on average with the presently strong AU$) the cost of living is much higher as well, and if I was back in Aus not only would I have less money per month to spend on plastic crack, but it would also cost me twice as much to purchase.
You highlight the myth that raising the minimum wage actually improves net incomes.

Those wage rises have to be paid for by employers, they are paid for by charging more for products and services. The net result is that the wage rise is absorbed by cost of living increases. Those on the minimum wage gain no advantage, those not on the minimum wage don't get a pay rise so their real world income actually drops.
widderslainte's avatar

widderslainte · 724 weeks ago

According to this, it was $15 AUD (about $16 US) a year ago:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704...
this is the exact same letter that got sent to bols. hmm
Maybe what he said is true. But I don't see GW going out of their way to find a solution that works for everyone. There is no compromise in that answer.
No offence to anyone but does anyone with a track record, first-hand, academically or professionally speaking (not a mum, not a mate) have hard, apolitical, factually relevant science to drop? Because I've seen every opinion from 'Execute the French Bourbon motherfuckers' to 'Shut up, suck the capitalism up, neckbeard'

I'm Aussie and I'm finding it very difficult to seperate Sound from Noise in this discussion. And I want to quite badly because I genuinely, honest to God, can't afford to expand my games at these new prices but I want to keep playing and converting and all that stuff. So I really want to know if this is a fair position for GW to take. Or if it's nonsense. And plan my purchases immorally and accordingly.

So anyone out there got non-casual expertise? Real hands on wisdom?

Christian
1 reply · active 724 weeks ago
Who ever has apolitical science? That notion has always been silly. :P

But is it really relevant whether this is a fair position for GW to take or not? If you genuinely can't afford these (and I know I can't) then when does it become worth your while to play a game with models that despite claims to the contrary are not objectively the ferraris of sculpting or game mechanics?
Who ever has apolitical science? That notion has always been silly. :P

But is it really relevant whether this is a fair position for GW to take or not? If you genuinely can't afford these (and I know I can't) then when does it become worth your while to play a game with models that despite claims to the contrary are not objectively the ferraris of sculpting or game mechanics?
from what it seems they are saying is that without the price gourgeing that they do to Australia they can not get new releases out so in other words it is what Telstra used to do offer huge discounts in the major cities then screw over country users
Just to add my insane to the works...
One of the reasons I don't use the local store- there are 2 in bris-north ..
is that they don't stock 90% of the offbeat models I want- I'll be assed if I'm going to a brick and mortar store to order something to be delivered to the store. and then have to go to the shops to pick it up when it comes in...
Last 3 visits to the brick and mortar- got any sisters of battle? nope, got any adeptus arbites?, nope, Got any temple/officio assasinorium assassins? nope
steel legion? nope
My understanding is that most of that stuff is being written off and made in resin later... but functionally for me- that means it's easier to look it up on the internet and buy it where I find it. And I don't have to deal with some kid who was born after I started playing in 1989 treating me like I'm NEW to the hobby
Teen born Post Slaves to Darkness "hey, have you been here before, can I show you these marines"
Me "I play Chaos, preferably Khorne but Undivided when I have to, and what I can't tell you about the grimdarkness hasn't been grokked"

Ok, I'd never be that condescending without the anon cover of the internet- I usually just glare. If they are particularly smarmy I might mention that I can field 10,000pts of troops with mark of khorne but got thrashed doing just that in apocalypse so I might be looking at another slightly more tactically sound army like iron warriors using space wolves rules

Anyway. I don't like their stores and although I would feel bad for the 2 staff who I would want to talk to about more than how much change I'm getting and when their next releases is, we live in a capitalist reality. So bring the competition bitches. My next purchase may not, in fact, be GW. I will be carefully weighing my options, scouring the internets, and buying minis based on style, craftsmanship and price (and of course what I "need" in my wargaming and rpg toys at the time)

You hear that GW? Price!
Coillscath's avatar

Coillscath · 723 weeks ago

Pull the other one, Mr Wells. It's got bells on it.

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