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"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit

Saturday, May 21, 2011
Australia Games Workshop responds
Posted by
Unknown
From warmgamerAU.com via Facebook group.
Dear Anthony,
Thanks for contacting Games Workshop about the change in our trading terms for European accounts. I know this has frustrated you and for that I am truly sorry. As a long standing customer, you deserve to know why we made this decision.
As you know, we introduce people to the Games Workshop hobby of collecting, painting and gaming with Citadel miniatures through our Hobby Centres and local independent trade accounts. Games Workshop Hobby Centres run introductory games and painting sessions, beginner lessons, hobby activities and events. We provide all these services free of charge. We only recover this investment if customers then buy products from us.
Where we don't have a Games Workshop Hobby Centre, we support local independent trade accounts. These businesses provide a convenient place for customers to buy our products close to where they live. We support these businesses with local customer service teams and warehouses to ensure customers have immediate access to our best selling products and new releases. Many customers discover the hobby this way.
In addition we invest millions of pounds every year in our design studio and factory to ensure that each month we release more new products. This makes the Games Workshop Hobby more exciting for existing customers, helping them stay in the hobby longer. We can only afford to do this because of the volume of customers we have recruited and developed through our local Hobby Centres and trade accounts.
It is for this reason that we have changed our European Trade terms. Over recent years, a number of currencies have moved a long way from their historical relative values, and this has opened the door for some traders to try to take advantage of these currency movements and offer deep discounts to overseas hobbyists. This has been the case with European internet traders selling to some of our customers overseas.
While this may seem great in the short term, the simple fact is that European internet traders will not invest any money in growing the hobby in your country. Their model is to minimise their costs and free-ride on the investment of Games Workshop and local independent shops in creating a customer base.
We on the other hand have to keep paying our Australian staff, rents and utilities in Australian dollars. While some customers have suggested we halve our prices, the only way we could do that is if we halve our Australian staff's salaries, default on our rents and not pay our suppliers until exchange rates move back into alignment. That's the reality of what a price reduction of this scale means. And we both know that customers who are motivated by price are not going to change their behaviour if it was any less than that.
The inevitable consequence if this was allowed to continue is that Games Workshop would not be able to operate Hobby Centres, nor to support local trade accounts. And if this happened in more territories outside Europe, the loss of volume would leave Games Workshop no choice but to scale back our investment in new product development, further eroding our customer base. Not something that we or our customers would want us to do.
That is why we took the decision to take legitimate action to restrict European trade accounts from selling the goods they purchase from Games Workshop outside Europe. None of the other alternatives were viable.
While I understand that you may still be unhappy with our decision, it was taken to ensure we can continue to support the Games Workshop hobby communities around the world through our Games Workshop Hobby Centres and local trade accounts. And to ensure we continue to invest in developing the best possible new product releases every month. I hope therefore that over time you will see the benefits of this decision for you and your hobby.
Yours sincerely,
Mark Wells
Chief Executive
18 May 2011
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Australia Games Workshop responds
2011-05-21T09:57:00+10:00
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Katie Drake · 724 weeks ago
fester40k 73p · 724 weeks ago
This is where the maths falls over from what I can see.
UK DRP (for instance 1/2 RRP) + shipping + rent + wages + profit on a box of tactical marines:
11.50 (1/2 of 23 pound RRP) + 6 pounds (fairly generous amount if you are shipping the volumes they would) = 17.50 quid.
This = about $25 AUD. A box is $62 AUD RRP. My maths in this example shows a profit margin before expenses of $37 - or 130-odd%.
I'm no maths or economics guy, but work in Small Business IT Support and have to understand how to do Profit analysis's for both customers (ROI) and for the company (are we charging enough).
I'm not going to say "highway robbery"...
Marshal_Wilhelm 71p · 724 weeks ago
GW can afford to make, and _profit on_, money on Maelstrom selling its stuff for less than GW does in its stores in the UK.
If that is so, then jacking Maelstrom's prices up by 200% to sell in an Aussie GW really smells off.
GW store in the UK, is what, 20% over Maelstrom games?
This includes profit and all the "free"* stuff that GW gives away at the store, like painting tips, etc.
GW has to jack up the price by 50% of what it costs in the UK? Pull the other one.
*Now lets assume GW does give away all this free stuff, like painting tips etc and it is all factored into the cost. Which actually means it isn't free at all, so stop pretending like it is good will. When something is giving away for free, it costs the giver, and is not included in a marked up price.
Then they have jacked up their prices on everything, to cover that cost. Well isn't that convenient. That flagfall for 'free' help doesn't get waved if you have nothing to do with the the GW staff does it?
Everyone pays for it, but not everyone pays for it. I don't have much sympathy for such spin and such taxing of customers.
My local independent store, staffed by Aussies running in an Aussie shop, offer a 20% discount on the GW half hour away. They are just as helpful, talk to you about fluff and _don't_ harass you into buying their products.
I really am having a hard time buying such "incredible logic" when I look closer ;)
ru486baby 32p · 724 weeks ago
Autarch79 · 724 weeks ago
Aussies - do you guys somehow get paid enormous sums to work in retail stores?
Slate_Blank · 724 weeks ago
MadPersian 37p · 724 weeks ago
SageoftheTimes 77p · 724 weeks ago
Note this doesn't answer the massive increase in prices, so this doesn't answer a bit question relating to LGSes, namely, weither people in a crappy economy CAN AFFORD TO BUY THEIR MODELS.
fester40k 73p · 724 weeks ago
Traditionally with the weaker dollar, our minimum wage was ~$10-11 USD ($15aud/hr)
Marshal_Wilhelm 71p · 724 weeks ago
MadPersian 37p · 724 weeks ago
@ianlogsdon · 724 weeks ago
Messanger of Death · 724 weeks ago
What we need to know is what the difference in wages between Aussie and UK GW staff.
Trentat · 724 weeks ago
That and their huge trade imbalance.
Think to yourself for a moment: what are Australia's main exports?
There is a reason they built a world class opera house and spend so much on encouraging tourism!
Kirby 118p · 724 weeks ago
dethtron 67p · 724 weeks ago
fester40k 73p · 724 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 724 weeks ago
Drop bears you know?
Messanger of Death · 724 weeks ago
Roland Durendal · 724 weeks ago
Oh wit wrong country!
They export hot women and surfers.
Messanger of Death · 724 weeks ago
Tarragon · 724 weeks ago
But still... that is a surprisingly reasonable answer.
muggins · 724 weeks ago
Loken 29p · 724 weeks ago
SageoftheTimes 77p · 724 weeks ago
Archnomad 70p · 724 weeks ago
=/
darkstarr · 724 weeks ago
SneakyDan · 724 weeks ago
I have written back, outlining some of my ideas as to how they can improve the business in Oz, through the following measures:
Pricing - this shit is not cheap. I've asked for a company statement regarding why its so much more expensive in Australia, and explained the following(this is all paraphrased, by the by). Aussie Razorback = $55 AUD, UK Razorback = $28AUD after exchange rates. I would happily pay $35-40 for said razorback, but $27 dollars more is unreasonable to cover overheads.
GW's own online store - Basically, GW AU should have an online store that reflects these prices as well, and offers free shipping. This same store should also offer price breaks for larger sales ($150 and and increments above that). This would encourage army buyers to spend online, to receive somewhat of a discount.
Lastly is prize support - a personal bugbear. US tournies get vouchers, but we dont?
I'll see if i get a response, im not hopeful.
Ponies · 724 weeks ago
Also Kudos to Wells for taking the time to personalize these. It's a nice touch.
@SackOfOwls · 724 weeks ago
SageoftheTimes 77p · 724 weeks ago
@SackOfOwls · 724 weeks ago
fester40k 73p · 724 weeks ago
There is no logical reason we pay $100 AUD for a $50USD game, that's just how it has always been.
Lurking Horror · 724 weeks ago
Desc440 · 724 weeks ago
Tarkwin · 724 weeks ago
Desc440 · 724 weeks ago
MarshalLaeroth 52p · 724 weeks ago
So that means if those two Maelstrom kits sold, Games Workshop would make $10. However, if GW sold ONE kit at one of their stores, they'd make $50. Maelstrom would have to sell 10 kits to match the profit margin of one kit being sold directly from GW. Sounds like the better deal to me. While its not in GW's best interest to eliminate the independent retailer, they prefer if you buy directly from them. But as the executive said, LGS's are the prime places for creating new players and providing a place for them to play.
Desc440 · 724 weeks ago
eriochrome · 724 weeks ago
In many areas GW has done fine in spite of its Stores not because of them. I have never had a good retail experience in their stores.
CptFornost 44p · 724 weeks ago
So the first world struggles with the results of 25 years of savage, unchecked liberalism and globalization, and we not only had to pay dearly in LIVES (starvation, poverty, lack of healthcare etc.) while they turned their backs on us, we ALSO have to bear the burden of GW's losses.
Guestivus · 724 weeks ago
MadPersian 37p · 724 weeks ago
They explain that the embargo on shipping out of Europe is to protect the local retailers which they believe are necessary to grow the player base in Australia.
Sackofowls brought up a great comparison. Video games in Australia cost nearly twice as much as in the US. LA Noire is $108AUS in Gamestop's AU online shop and I imagine their retail shop too. I imagine many other things are more expensive too relative to the US and Europe.
Lukismness · 724 weeks ago
Stucarius · 724 weeks ago
The, the USD, the Canada Dollar and the Euro are all almost exactly the same value. GW is full of it. They are exploiting a market with no geographic options. They have artificially based their prices on a currency that is not one of the world standard currencies any longer. The GBP and as a result they have created a gigantic disparity in the pricing models for their products all over the world.
The European courts are going to hammer them on this. They will just be the most recent in a long line of companies to get handed their heads for this kind of predatory currency gouging. The courts take this stuff very very seriously because the integrity of relative values in currency is extremely important international trade and there are many many treaties of which The U.K. is no doubt part that enforce these standards.
Our next price hike may come to cover the cost of GW's fines for violating international law. Not that I think it will matter. There is an email and letter writing campaign to send complaints directly to the 5 major institutional investors that represent 75% of GW's ownership. That and the gigantic drop in sales the combination of the price hikes in the middle of a recession coupled with these new trade policies will be GW's poison pill already.
Here is the link to the addresses and identities of the GW ownership: http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2011/05/who-owns-g...
Write them and tell them how disappointed you are as a customer. Get pressure placed on GW management to change these policies and price suicide.
Dan · 724 weeks ago
The cost of models in Australia to some extent will be based on the additional costs of operating there rather than solely on currency differences. I cant see any international laws that they are breaking. I know of no law international or otherwise that stops you pricing your goods at random based on what colour countries are in your atlas, as long as you dont have a monopoly or are organizing prices with competitors.
Dezzo · 724 weeks ago
so what the fuck?
Messanger of Death · 724 weeks ago
Messanger of Death · 724 weeks ago
Messanger
Marshal_Wilhelm 71p · 724 weeks ago
see post #15
Stelek didn't like the one we came up with, but didn't really say why. Lol.
This new one has 2 Melta guns
5 Multi Meltas
2 Flamers
2 Heavy Flamers
3 Auto Cannons
5 Las Cannons
2 C Missile Launchers
4 Heavy Bolters
Which I think is pretty good ლ(╹◡╹ლ)
Messanger of Death · 724 weeks ago
Marshal_Wilhelm 71p · 724 weeks ago
Are they even points efficient at 100 pts?
I get it, but if anything is getting PotMS, should it not be a Pred or Vindi?
The melta guns cannot even fire from their transports! You guys have be drilling me on Mech > Foot and how important it is to bunker up, yet are breaking that rule.
Signed, Mr. Con Fused.
Marshal_Wilhelm 71p · 724 weeks ago
Q_Q
Kommon Cents · 724 weeks ago
MarshalLaeroth 52p · 724 weeks ago
However, I do know that most retailers do markup the price 40-50%, as you said (which I said as well in my original message). This is both from having close relations with several LGS owners (one being a direct relative), as well as general practices in retail (I used to manage a retail store). While you are probably correct in the fact that they aren't making $5 a kit, it certainly isn't anywhere close to what they would be making if they were selling it themselves.
I was given a very specific example of the LGS profit margin (which has been confirmed by several others), that these stores need to sell THREE kits before the LGS turns a profit. Until that point, they are working to break even. And that isn't even counting any applicable discounts the store may give out that requires them to sell more kits before a profit margin is made. ;)
In comparison, I was told that it took the store only TWO kits from Privateer Press/Malifaux/Reaper Minis to turn a profit. Food for thought. :P
Kommon Cents · 724 weeks ago
Lord Shaper · 724 weeks ago
1. No we're not going to lift the embargo
2. We want to you pay double the price to provide money for staff they are reducing in stores Australia Wide.
3. We really want to support you by only giving you one option of where to buy from so we can make more money
I call bullshit of them and I'm sorry I'm done...
Jason · 724 weeks ago
Guestivus · 724 weeks ago
Mont'au Mal'caor · 724 weeks ago
Looking to save yourself and consumers a ton of money? Kill LotR already!
dethtron 67p · 724 weeks ago
Simon · 724 weeks ago
If we were to assume for a moment that GW were to sell products at cost price to their staffies, that would mean the regular price was at 100% mark up? But few companies offer cost price to employees, so we can only assume cost is cheaper than discount price, meaning mark up is over 100%, minimum.
Also, is their a "retail cost" and a "supplier cost" at GW? Obviously any retail business, like a book store, has a cost price of, for example, $10 from the supplier, who in turn have a real cost price of $5. After all, the supplier needs to make a profit too. But since GW are both the supplier and the retailer, what cost price are things being based off? Is GW-supplier making a profit from GW-Retail, who then make a profit off of GW-customer?
Lyracian 59p · 724 weeks ago
alex · 724 weeks ago
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/05/gw-news-wh...
I laughed. To sum it up, buy your toys at your FLGS or GW, support them, don't abuse online shopping and kill the store.
Your bag of chips cost $4 and I can get them for a $1 at US? Damn your cost of living is high.
@InDavesLife · 724 weeks ago
For a moment, lets put AUS aside.. Why is Canada on the embargo list? If it's a matter of currency, then explain how they're hurting while the CAN and US dollars are so close. Why are prices at most stores in Canada 20% higher, which some independant locations can afford to sell at 15-20% off 365 days of the year?
If there's any waning interest in the hobby, maybe it has to do with GW axing Canada's Games Day and lumping it into the US one. (To which a few Games Workshop employees openly grumbled about during this last Games Day in Baltimore when asked about it) Somehow GW can host a Games Day in a bunch of countries in tightly packed EU, but can't host two in the expanse of North America? That's a company saying they don't care about a country's hobby base.
Back at the AUS issue, if it's a money thing, how can gamers buy online at better prices than AUS shops can get their supplies at? I mean, what's so different from X gamer buying from Y European online store vs A shop buying from B euro GW supplier?
Guestivus · 724 weeks ago
VT2 79p · 724 weeks ago
If they wanted more sales, they'd price their models to be afforadable. If they wanted to keep ticking, they'd ditch their useless stores.
If the much-tooted stores were so important to them for 'recruitment,' they'd not downsize most of them to one-man operations.
MadPersian 37p · 724 weeks ago
Pricing really isn't as simple as people are making it out to be.
VT2 79p · 724 weeks ago
Very high price on luxury items, made for rich people. Fine.
Very high price on hobby-thingies (toy soldiers, paint, glue, gear), made for kids and young adults. Dumb.
MadPersian 37p · 724 weeks ago
eriochrome · 724 weeks ago
MadPersian 37p · 724 weeks ago
One thing to consider though, despite the presumably low cost of additional plastic for models and additional payments for the packaging and labels, there is a limiting factor to how much you can produce at a low cost.
The produce their models in the UK (or at least my Aegis Defense Line box say so). Say they have 10 (totally made up) molds for one line and they are running at close to maximum capacity for one shift of workers. You can produce a bit more at low cost per model by running the molds up to maximum capacity for one shift of workers. However, to produce more you are either going to have to pay for another shift of workers or for overtime for the first shift of workers to run at above capacity on your molds. This would increase the cost of the units beyond your initial capacity. Alternatively you could invest and buy more molds and increase your capacity for one shift of labor which would also increase the cost and this is a long run decision, not a short run decision.
While you are absolutely right in your post, as I said before in my post to VT2, pricing and output decisions are not as easy as many people I've seen posting about GW's pricing changes and European export changes are willing to acknowledge. People want to pretend it's as simple as "lower price, sell more, more profit," but it really is not.
These decisions are very complex and the only entity that has all the information necessary to make those decisions is GW. Just by looking at their pricing changes, you can see that it wasn't an across the board increase in prices, so you can see that the decision is deliberate and targeted. Whether or not they made the decision correctly is something that can certainly be argued, specially once we see their 2011 annual statement, but making these over simplified claims about pricing isn't the best way to go about discussing this topic.
Lurking Horror · 724 weeks ago
Yes, higher profit per item means you have to sell less product to make the same money. But if you reduce profit per item in line to make actual sale prices affordable, the pickup they would gain in turnover would more than offset that percentage reduction to return a higher overall amount.
MadPersian 37p · 724 weeks ago
Really the only way for a distributor to make more money is to either increase his profit margin (by obtaining the product at a lower price by buying a lot), or buy lowering prices to sell a greater volume. They are not going to run into the problem of having increasing costs for each extra unit they obtain for resale.
However, GW will have a certain capacity, where if they reach it, the cost for each additional unit produced will be greater than the last one produced. Which is why they are better off finding a sweet spot where they are selling the correct number of units at a price above their marginal costs to make maximum profit.
They can't just reduce prices to sell more because after a certain amount of units sold, the cost to manufacture each additional product will increase past a certain amount, and this will decrease their profits.
Sethis · 724 weeks ago
Minimum Wage is £5.85 per hour. Someone on this salary will bring in slightly less than £11,000 per annum assuming they work 35 hours per week. This is the kind of wage people working in supermarkets earn.
Semi-skilled or BA/BSC Graduate work can be in the £8.00-£12.00 per hour range, averaging from £15,000 per annum up to £24,000 for competent people in decent jobs. A good, educated to university level young person can expect to reach that in a "normal" profession by their late 20s.
A battleforce here is about to cost £60 after the price rise. This is the amount of money I (on an ~£8.00 per hour job) can afford to spend on little plastic men if I saved up for about two weeks. If I earned a bit more (say £10 per hour) then I could maybe afford to buy that in just one week, assuming my cost of living didn't rise.
I am curious as to how different it is for people in Australia. Is the Warhammer hobby a much bigger investment for you than for us? If so, how do you afford it?
MeatPuppet · 724 weeks ago
While wages in Australia are generally higher (at least on average with the presently strong AU$) the cost of living is much higher as well, and if I was back in Aus not only would I have less money per month to spend on plastic crack, but it would also cost me twice as much to purchase.
Jason · 724 weeks ago
Those wage rises have to be paid for by employers, they are paid for by charging more for products and services. The net result is that the wage rise is absorbed by cost of living increases. Those on the minimum wage gain no advantage, those not on the minimum wage don't get a pay rise so their real world income actually drops.
widderslainte · 724 weeks ago
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704...
soylent · 724 weeks ago
aurenian · 724 weeks ago
christian · 724 weeks ago
I'm Aussie and I'm finding it very difficult to seperate Sound from Noise in this discussion. And I want to quite badly because I genuinely, honest to God, can't afford to expand my games at these new prices but I want to keep playing and converting and all that stuff. So I really want to know if this is a fair position for GW to take. Or if it's nonsense. And plan my purchases immorally and accordingly.
So anyone out there got non-casual expertise? Real hands on wisdom?
Christian
Guestivus · 724 weeks ago
But is it really relevant whether this is a fair position for GW to take or not? If you genuinely can't afford these (and I know I can't) then when does it become worth your while to play a game with models that despite claims to the contrary are not objectively the ferraris of sculpting or game mechanics?
Guestivus · 724 weeks ago
But is it really relevant whether this is a fair position for GW to take or not? If you genuinely can't afford these (and I know I can't) then when does it become worth your while to play a game with models that despite claims to the contrary are not objectively the ferraris of sculpting or game mechanics?
Dorps · 724 weeks ago
Mr Cynical · 724 weeks ago
One of the reasons I don't use the local store- there are 2 in bris-north ..
is that they don't stock 90% of the offbeat models I want- I'll be assed if I'm going to a brick and mortar store to order something to be delivered to the store. and then have to go to the shops to pick it up when it comes in...
Last 3 visits to the brick and mortar- got any sisters of battle? nope, got any adeptus arbites?, nope, Got any temple/officio assasinorium assassins? nope
steel legion? nope
My understanding is that most of that stuff is being written off and made in resin later... but functionally for me- that means it's easier to look it up on the internet and buy it where I find it. And I don't have to deal with some kid who was born after I started playing in 1989 treating me like I'm NEW to the hobby
Teen born Post Slaves to Darkness "hey, have you been here before, can I show you these marines"
Me "I play Chaos, preferably Khorne but Undivided when I have to, and what I can't tell you about the grimdarkness hasn't been grokked"
Ok, I'd never be that condescending without the anon cover of the internet- I usually just glare. If they are particularly smarmy I might mention that I can field 10,000pts of troops with mark of khorne but got thrashed doing just that in apocalypse so I might be looking at another slightly more tactically sound army like iron warriors using space wolves rules
Anyway. I don't like their stores and although I would feel bad for the 2 staff who I would want to talk to about more than how much change I'm getting and when their next releases is, we live in a capitalist reality. So bring the competition bitches. My next purchase may not, in fact, be GW. I will be carefully weighing my options, scouring the internets, and buying minis based on style, craftsmanship and price (and of course what I "need" in my wargaming and rpg toys at the time)
You hear that GW? Price!
Coillscath · 723 weeks ago