Blood Angels: choose my list

Sunday, May 8, 2011

Blood Angels: choose my list

Posted by Zjoekov

So, my GK project didn't really turn out the way I had in mind. Nothing wrong with them, they're competitive, but not in the way I want to play them. Playstyle is important for these kinda things ;)

Now, result is that I still need a new competitive list for important tournaments later this year, so I pretty much decided to go for Mech Blood Angels. Different reasons: I love Marines. I love Fast vehicles. I love the fact that it doesn't cost me a whole lot of money.

I have 3 lists at the moment, all pretty similar. If you think all 3 of them are equally fail, go ahead and tell me so; including 'why' of course.

List 1:

Mephy 250

Tactical squad; ML, melta/cmelta, rhino 235

5 ASM; melta, infernus, rhino 140

Baal; TL-AC, HB 145

Dakka Pred 100

10 Devastators; 4 ML's 210

Total: 1700

Explaination: Devs and Tacticals usually combat squad. Why Tacticals? I like the 4+2 concept, simple. Rest should speak for itself, if not: ask.

List 2:

Mephy 250

Tactical squad; ML, melta/cmelta, rhino 235

5 ASM; melta, infernus, rhino 140

5 Sternguard; 2 ML's 135

Baal; Flamestorm 115

Dakka Pred 100

Total: 1700

Explaination: Cheaper Baals, points went into 'upgrading' Devs into Sternguard, which has its advantages.

List 3:

Libby; Fear + Shield 100

Tactical squad; ML, melta/cmelta, rhino 235

5 ASM; melta, infernus, rhino 140

5 Sternguard; 2 Lasscannons 155

2 Priests 100

Baal; Flamestorm, dozer 120

Dakka Pred 100

Total: 1700

Explaination: Mephy switched for a Libby. Points saved went into upgrading the Sternguard to carry lasscannons, Dozers for the Baals and to include 2 Priests. 2 Priests potentially make the fire base (the 4x5 Marines sitting back with heavy weapons) very annoying to remove or they can go with my forward Marines to make those a bit more capable outside their transports.

Now to not influence your opinion, I won't say which list I like the most. Actually...I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking. That and because it's a rather quiet weekend ^^

Discuss!

Comments (22)

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sinsynn 106p · 725 weeks ago

A friend of mine is suffering a losing streak from HELL trying to convince himself an 'all-Termie' list with like 20 models is a good idea...it's amusing. He should take a lesson from Zjoekov here, and move on. Lol.

Regarding the lists- 1700 is a weird point value...but are these Comp lists? Mephy in a sub-2000 point list, or 310 points of foot Sternguard with heavy weapons?
So why bring Sternguard if not for the Bolters? Lascannons are just....awful for the points value...And on FOOT?

Since you COULD pack in more ASM's...with more Melta, OR more Tacs with ML's, or a virtual plethora of more points-efficient choices (from Termies to Libby Dreads...I mean, there's SO many things you could do with 310 points! It boggles the mind!), and you chose to go with a 'fluffy' unit, I have to figure that this, combined with the odd points value, means that this is a 'Comp' style list, rght?

1 reply · active 725 weeks ago

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Zjoekov 74p · 725 weeks ago

Lol, no it's not a comp list ;)

Marines aren't easy to remove and these are my only non-scoring marines. What I try to say is: I'm pretty confident they will fire their Lasscannons for quite a while. I want long range Anti-tank basicly and this seemed fine to me. No don't even try to suggest Las/Ac Preds =P

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Lyracian 59p · 725 weeks ago

I quite like Sternguard with Lascannons. They give some extra damage output and long range to the unit. I put have put them in a Rhino though.

Personally not keen on Mephy so I vote for list 3. How is the Fear power working for you? It seems a bit of a odd choice?

1 reply · active 725 weeks ago

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Cambrian · 725 weeks ago

I like list 1 most personally. Though not having a librarian for shield is a slight drawback compared to list 3; however, Mephiston can do a fair amount of damage and gets an easy ride up behind the rhino/pred wall.

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Error · 725 weeks ago

I'd drop the priests in list 3 , and grab rhinos for both stenguard squads. I don't think the priests will work particularly well in list 3 , even with feel no pain 5 man Msu squads will die pretty easily. Investing 100 points to give them a slightly longer life-span seems like a waste of points in my opinion. Overall I think list 3 is the best. You've got the baals to kill long fangs on turn 1 ( if they're deployed outside a transport anyways) and a good amount of long to medium range firepower in the list. I'd question the usefulness of the fear on the librarian. My own personal preferance would be Blood Lance ( For those games when guard players castle up and you hit like 3-4 vehicles at once)

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Bro_Lo 82p · 725 weeks ago

Stelek didn't provide?

I don't care what anybody say... Mephy is strong. Is he worth a Libby, 2 priests, dozers and ML -> Lascannons? Probably.

I agree with Stelek - HBs on Flamestorm Preds just seems a bit whacky to me. I don't see why you want it and when you'd use all 3 weapons.

I don't see a HUGE amount of anti-tank in the list and not very much ranged supression fire at all.

Overall... not fussed with any of the lists massively.

3 replies · active 723 weeks ago

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Zjoekov 74p · 725 weeks ago

Nope, Stelek is sometimes pretty useless to ask things lol. You're completely dependant on his mood basicly.

If I'm completely honest, I'm not sure on any of the lists either. I always have this problem: It's not like I can't make strong lists, I just can't make strong lists which I still like :(

Maybe a total overhaul, dunno, will look at it again.

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Marshal_Wilhelm 71p · 725 weeks ago

I guess it stops it from being a one gun tank.

You use it as a flamer or a HB, as the situation offers. Against Nids, perhaps you'd HB them, to thin them down and stay away from MCs until they have been shot up.
Against Guard, perhaps you'd drive it in and *whoosh*

When a gun goes, you switch to the other mode. Whilst HB are not terrifying, even against AV11 they can do something and if you fire with them last, hopefully you'll have Infantry to shoot at.

Aventine played against Deldar and once the flamer was gone, he was trying to ram skimmers. 6 HB shots would have done well against Raiders and Warriors.

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TMiles001 41p · 723 weeks ago

Umm - he doesn't have any Flamestorm Baals with HBs.
Only HBs are on list 1 which is TL-AC Baals...

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Squ1rrel · 725 weeks ago

bah i dont feel this takes advantage of the codex well. Tact marines are just fail, especially when asms get the reduced transport costs. not a big fan of baals especially when you havent maxed out dakka preads, the ac are expensive, the flamestorm expose themsevles too much to get useable. also the lack of priests is disapoint, especially on your ranged elements

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Archnomad 70p · 725 weeks ago

Clayman said:
All three lists are equally fail, and here's why; Tactical squads, blood angels shouldn't have them, you get better point for point melta, combat, and transports in assault squads. Why're you running Dakka preds? Although, Mephi is always a strong pick.

Archy added:
If there's one thing BA do not need it's infantry clear up. Jake, it looks like you're tryingto run some kind of shooty BA? Like, seriously, this list would be better served by vanilla SM. >_> Another gripe I have are the Baals, as one of the guys who helped me test out MY mech BA, I thought we'd generally agreed that Baals were way over points, considering what you were getting. Definitely not in 1700 when you still have other good things you can take.

10 replies · active 725 weeks ago

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Archnomad 70p · 725 weeks ago

Archy continued:
Yes the 4+2 is a strong concept, but in BA I had much more success with the "6+run back at the end of the game in your 18" transports" concept. That or just keep some units literally in midfield so that they're at most 2 turns away from an objective. It's never been that big a deal for BA, considering their mobility. It's a tool that works better for armies like mech IG, SW etc. It works for Dark Eldar but that's literally because the opponent can remove whatever of theirs they want that's put in front of them. So yes, you could run it, but I wouldn't.

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Archnomad 70p · 725 weeks ago

Seeing as all 3 lists seem to just be however much shooting you can fit into a BA army, I don't think you're going to do particularly well with any of them, as you're not playing to the strengths of the book. I appreciate you're playing at a janky points limit but you can definitely run better than this. BA really reward an aggressive playstyle in my opinion, so what I'd advise is is assault squads with meltas in rhinos, autolas, mephiston and probably terms but I doubt you can fit them. Oh, and sangpriests. You need sangpriests :P.

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Archnomad 70p · 725 weeks ago

So, realistically you can happily fit Mephiston, 6 units of 5 ASM w/Infernus + Melta in rhinos, 3 Lightning Claws and 3 Autolas along with 2 Sangpriests with Combi Meltas and Lightning Claws in 1700. That's 1690. If you take out an ASM unit you have wiggle room for another libby and more combat weapons, speeders etc. But I'd start from there. (:

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Zjoekov 74p · 725 weeks ago

Help apreciated mate. Thing is, I'm aware of a list like that. That's the list you were testing remember ;) I'm afraid I just don't like them....

I'll think about it.

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wisdom like silence · 725 weeks ago

" you're not playing to the strengths of the book."

I disagree. BA have a lot of strengths and he's making good use of fast vehicles in this list. Really if you try to make a SM list in this vein it just gets slower and less durable (no FNP on any squads) in exchange for a few more bodies and combat tactics, which isn't great for mech lists to begin with.

Zjoekov, I think you should choose your favorite list and playtest it, and modify from there. I think you have a good starting point here.

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Zjoekov 74p · 725 weeks ago

<3

Thanks for the support, it's important for a sensetive person like me ^^ I do know that Pringles liked it too so that's at least some people who see it the way I see it.

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Archnomad 70p · 725 weeks ago

I would disagree. Fast vehicles, yes, sure. So you're playing to one strength of the book. >_>

He only has Sangpriests in one list. "Fast mech" is something I tried extensively and it just doesn't perform. The big gripe I have with the list is the Baals and Dakka preds. I really don't think BA need either of these, and certainly not both (although I'd rather have dakka preds over Baals). The problems it runs into is tank killing. If you look at the really "good" Imperial armies (GK aside) they feature a very heavy melta presence. Here Zjoe has 4 units, which I wouldn't say is enough considering their fragility. BA Lasplas are quite nice, and definitely something you could look into though, if you did really want to go down this route.

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Archnomad 70p · 725 weeks ago

I do want to add, while the above lists aren't "bad" (Clayman thinks so though >_> ;) I wouldn't say they're the best BA can get. I feel a list like that is better served by Nilla SM, or if you're going for midfield firepower, GK.

Maybe try something that "really" takes advantage of BA mobility? Lots of multi weapon tanks moving 6" and firing would be a good start. Something like lasplas, autolas, use your infantry to kill their infantry, but take meltas (you need em), and you'll be rolling. I don't feel it's as efficient as the aforementioned "double melta rhino spam" though. >:

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Clayman · 725 weeks ago

I didn't mean "bad" when i said "epic fail" i ment "Hur hur look how clerver i am quoting the article".

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Zjoekov 74p · 725 weeks ago

Yeah, I'm basicly trying to run the kind of army style I like and trying to shoehorn it into BA I guess...

The orginal idea is 4 AV13 vehicles and 4 AV11 vehicles, which match fairly well regarding 'choo-chooing' and stuff.
I like keeping Preds cheap, so that you make target priority harder you know, as the AT is on non-stunnable infantry.

Ya en you're right on the Baals, feels rather stupid that I indeed concluded that with you back then haha. I did like them potentially more in this list though lol.

Fuck this shit. Thanks for the comments, I think I'll need to think what I want then, this might not be it then.

I need a competitive army I like RAWR.

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Volcatus · 725 weeks ago

List 3 looks closest to something competitive to me, with some tweaks. :)

First, I feel the best heavy weapon for a Tactical squad is the lascannon. The 10 point lascannon. I'm not thrilled about giving them Melta weapons though, as they will generally be moving up behind your AV13 and are likely to be out of any kind of useful range.

Second, the Sternguard can be replaced wholesale, and cheaper, with missile launcher Devastators.

Third, your assault units have no real authority in assault. You will have to get out at some point, and they'll need to do some damage when they do. We need to fit in some fists somewhere as well.

Librarian; Shield/Fear - 100
Sang Priest - 50
5 ASM; Meltagun, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon, LasPlas Razorback - 195
5 ASM; Meltagun, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon, LasPlas Razorback - 195
10 Tactical; Lascannon, Flamer, Power Fist, Rhino - 255
10 Tactical; Lascannon, Flamer, Power Fist, Rhino - 255
Baal Predator; Flamestorm, Dozer - 120
Baal Predator; Flamestorm, Dozer - 120
5 Devastators; 4X Missile Launchers - 130
Predator; Autocannon, Lascannon sponsons, Dozer - 140
Predator; Autocannon, Lascannon sponsons, Dozer - 140

So, our heavy weapon count went from 4 lascannons to 8, and 2 missile launchers to 4. We have some presence in CC, and can punch a Dread if we need to. Combat squad at least one of the Tacticals to baby sit the Devs (Sergeant w/ Fist and flamer) and give backfield scoring. The Priest can either ride with an ASM (most likely use), or reinforce the backfield units with FNP.