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Thursday, May 19, 2011

Warmachine and Hordes - An Introduction.



Well, in the near future, I'll be getting right back into Warmahordes. Considering a lot of other people have been contemplating it, I decided to do a little primer series for the game. Now, I could do a full tactical review for most (all the competitive ones anyway) units in most of the books. However, that's not really what I feel is necessary. What I will be writing up is a shiny little idiot's guide to the game, to let you know what's what, seperate the warlocks from the warcasters and generally help you get into the game (hopefully I'll pique your interest).

So, Warmahordes. Warmachine and Hordes. One thing a lot of people don't know is that both game systems can (and should) play against each other. The two games are fully compatible. They use slightly different rules systems, but are absolutely intended, balanced, etc for cross gameplay.


Now, Warmachine and Hordes are both skirmish level games. They (mostly) use relatively few models compared to 40k, and a tiny amount compared to WHFB. For example, my 35pt Circle Orboros force has 15 models. However a Terminus McThrall army may have as many as 50 models. The game itself is based (competitively) around objectives, like 40k, but objectives work differently. I'll cover that later though. The really big change between games, for me at least, is that the range of everything has been shortened drastically. This game takes place at phenomenally short ranges, but things are capable of moving very quickly. As a result, positioning and movement is phenomenally important.

Moving swiftly onward, I suppose I should explain the main game and what it's built around. Basically, in your army you will have either a Warlock (Hordes) or a Warcaster (Warmachine). These cost 0 points, and in fact actually give you "free" points towards your army. These guys are often the lynchpin of your army. They decide the playstyle and units you will use. Also, if they die, game over. Fatality. Asta la vista, etc. Often these are powerful combatants able to go toe to toe with anything barring warjacks/warbeasts, and some (Butcher springs to mind) able to tear down anything in the game in a turn in close combat. However, they're all fragile, or fragile enough that unnecessary exposure can cost you the game if capitalised on.

Warlocks and Warcasters each have a fundamental mechanic that keeps your Warbeasts (Hordes) or Warjacks (Warmachine) running. Warlocks have Fury, while Warcasters have Focus. The systems are similar, but different.  Different enough that the playstyle changes entirely. Also, as a note, Hordes tends to have better big guys, while Warmachine has a more "combined arms/infantry heavy" approach. But anyway, Warcasters all know spells, that they spend Fury/Focus to cast. These can cause horrific damage, or support your army. Generally each caster will have one "amazing" spell, and a bunch of other useful ones. Of course, this depends on your role, but the variety among abilities and spells  means that while you can't "make your own" warlock, there's absolutely enough variety to go around.

Next we have the Warbeasts and Warjacks. The big guys that people get into this game for. Well, they do not disappoint. They are the strong arm behind most armies. They have all sorts of cool stuff, my personal favourites being power attacks. Your War"x"s can headbutt, throw, arm lock, slam, push and kill each other. It's awesome, it's like a wrestling match that takes place on top of your opponent's army. And hell, having your Warpwolf pick up and throw a choir boy at eFeora to nail that last wound is so sweet (seriously, I've done it). I'll of course do a more detailed section on all of the unit types in this article, but this is a brief overview of the unit. Basically, the majority of these guys are either heavy beaters in close combat, or decent shooters. But all of them tend to have combat ability (comes with being 10ft tall and 10 tonnes in weight I guess).

Next up, we have what I list as "support." Now, as I mentioned, WM takes a more combined arms approach, so to those guys, these are your army (Circle is my main force, 2nd is probably Cryx or Khador). Basically, infantry are good. They're able to take Warbeasts down through sheer weight of numbers, or some elite infantry (the Great Bears of Gallowswood swing to mind (hoho! Wit!) almost immediately) can just cut them in half in a few slices. There's really not much to say about infantry. Their role varies greatly depending on what they are. Whether it's the awesome magical shenanigans of my Druids, the sheer PitA factor of a Winter Guard deathstar or the "through infantry like a hot knife through butter" of Exemplar Errants, most units definitely have a role. And chances are, they're the only unit in your army with that role.  Finally we have solos. They're sort of like characters, and almost all support. They tend to either have one nifty thing they do, or be absolute powerhouses, but easy to kill. That said, some Khadoran ones are like little Warjacks in their own right.

So, I'll cover this in more topic later, and also, please vote in the poll! I'll go through the armies based on that. :3

Comments (52)

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Daedalus Nix's avatar

Daedalus Nix · 725 weeks ago

Thanks for starting this Kirby. I've been toying with getting into Warmahordes myself (not just because of the price hikes, but price & time commitments are the biggest factors)

Downtime Item 1 Today was to find a good Warmachine for Idiots primer :D . Dooone :)
1 reply · active 725 weeks ago
It's not Kirby that wrote this, but you're welcome.

To all the comments saying "good timing", you'd almost think it was planned. :P
Nice article. Excelent timing too, with all that GW's end-of-the-world announcement.
Good stuff Billy, looking forward to more :D
As a note, Warjacks tend to have higher armor and a stronger base attack than Warbeasts, but Warbeasts often have a bit higher defense and can usually swing more times. Warbeasts are also much easier to heal in general and can often operate at full or near-full capacity until completely destroyed, but Warjacks will usually have more damage boxes. In general, most people seem to agree that Warbeasts are, by themselves, better than Warjacks in general, though they do often cost a couple more points.

The tradeoff here is that as Warjacks die, the Warcaster has much more autonomy and can focus on himself more - the loss of a jack has no personal effect on the Warcaster. On the other hand, if the Warbeasts start dying, the Warlock loses not only spells (animi) to cast, but also potential transfer targets if damaged. Thus Warbeasts are much more important to the army in Hordes than jacks are in Warmachine.
10 replies · active 725 weeks ago
So... Warbeasts power up a Warlock, while Warjacks drain on a Warcaster? Is that right?
So does that mean Hordes starts in high gear and slows down through play, while Warmachine starts in low gear and then powers up as the game progresses?
Kind of. This has to do with the Fury and Focus mechanics, which I'm sure Archnomad will explain more, but in brief:

Warcasters have a Focus stat, and automatically receive that much Focus at the start of their turns. They can use this Focus to cast spells, use it to increase their Armor stat, or they can give it to warjacks (usually up to 3/jack). Warjacks need Focus to perform special actions, such as charging, running, or performing power attacks, and they need to spend a focus to make an extra attack with a weapon beyond their initial one. This means Warmachine is a resource-management game at heart - how much focus to give to a jack, how much to keep for spells, how much to keep for Arm in a given turn? As the jacks get destroyed, the choices get simpler, but the Warcaster never loses power.

In Hordes, the Warlock has a Fury stat. He starts with that much Fury, but does not replenish at the beginning of their turns. Fury can be used to cast spells or to transfer all damage from a hit to a friendly beast (usually making them difficult to assassinate). Beasts do not need to be given anything from the Warlock; instead, they have their own Fury stat. They can be "forced" by the warlock to perform actions (same list as in Warmachine), but they can do this as many times up to their Fury stat. In addition, all Warbeasts have an "animus," or personal spell. The Warlock can cast the animus himself, or the beast can be forced to cast it itself. At the beginning of the Warlock's turn, he can harvest off of his beasts an amount of Fury equal to the Warlock's Fury stat. If a Warbeast is left with Fury on it after the harvesting, it makes a Threshold check and if it fails, it will Frenzy, giving up its regular action to attack the nearest model (usually friend or foe). This makes Hordes a "risk-management" game - how much Fury do you need, how much do you dare generate, can you risk your beasts frenzying? It also means that as the game goes on and the Hordes player loses beasts, he loses spells he can cast (the animii) as well as his protective mechanism (transferring damage taken).
STOP STEALING THE MATERIAL FOR FUTURE ARTICLES!

FREE TIBET!

Also, there are of course exceptions. Hell, I'd say it's a 50/50 thing. I wouldn't say jacks are harder than beasts. For example, Skorne Warbeasts are harder than Cygnar 'jacks. And Cryx Jacks and Circle Beasts are very similar, with Troll beasts being harder than Cryx Jacks. :3

Spot on with Warlocks and Warcasters. However, seriously, articles on this are coming. Stop stealing material. :P
Heh, I thought I might be crossing a line here. I'll try not to steal your thunda. It's all for a good cause though!
I genuinely don't mind. But this is seriously what the next article is about. I'm half tempted to just copy paste this in. ^^
Plagiarize away with my blessing!

Edit: Honestly, though, looking back at the articles Kuolema made, they pretty much discuss the differences between the two quite well and in depth. I'd link to his stuff here, and then go on and explore different concepts/article approaches.
Umm. Something like that. Privateer markets Warmachine as a game of resource management, and Hordes as a game of risk management:

In Warmachine, a Warcaster generates a specific amount of Focus per turn and must choose to allocate this between casting spells and powering up Warjacks. The dilemma here is do I power up my 'Jacks to kill stuff, or do I use my Focus to cast spells that support my army?

In Hordes, Warbeasts generate Fury by performing certain actions, and a Warlock can leach a specific amount of Fury from these Warbeasts to cast spells. Leaving Fury on a Warbeasts means that it might frenzy and attack friendly models. The dilemma here is how much Fury to generate, if I generate too much trying to kill my target, is it worth killing some of my own models? Also is it worth risking the life of my Warbeast? A dead Warbeast will not generate the Fury I need to cast spells.

I love both games but am far better at Warmachine, though I am trying to bolster my Hordes skills atm.
VinsKlortho's avatar

VinsKlortho · 725 weeks ago

I wouldn't say that Warcasters power up as the game progresses, but they do seem to maintain a steadier strength throughout. The Warcaster does attrition better than the Warlock does. When the Warcaster is down to just himself he is still getting the same amount of focus every round to cast spells or do whatever, not to mention unspent focus boosts his armor value. When the Warlock is down to just himself then he is, most of the time, getting no fury whatsoever to cast his spells and boost his attacks unless he starts trading his own health for fury on a 1 to 1 basis. Not to mention the Warlock's survivability from unspent focus comes from being able to spend it to transfer damage to another Warbeast and when he has no Warbeasts left, then its not a very effective defense.
VinsKlortho's avatar

VinsKlortho · 725 weeks ago

Warlocks do have an advantage when it comes to having a balls-to-the-wall nova alpha strike round compared to Warcasters. The Warcaster has to distribute his focus to jacks at the start of his turn and his jacks are pretty much limited in getting extra attacks by this focus. The Warlock has his own fury pool/mas fury score(usually 5-8) that he replenishes by taking fury off of his beasts. The beasts themselves can generate fury up to a certain maximum level(usually 3 for a light and 4 for a heavy) and can gain extra attacks and boosts when they generate fury. A Warlock can "run in the red" by having every single one of his beasts go to maximum fury for an absolute nasty round of pumping out damage even beyond his maximum ability to take all that fury off on the next turn. If this doesn't end the game though this can lead to a lot of beasts frenzying and either attacking your own guys or being generally uncontrollable which usually leads to them underperforming.
VinsKlortho's avatar

VinsKlortho · 725 weeks ago

I've heard people say that Warmachine factions play more of a resource management game while Hordes factions play more of a risk management game.
What is an average point game? How long does it take to play an average game?
1 reply · active 725 weeks ago
Average points depends. Just starting off you might play a battle-box size game (12-15 points) or a 25 point game. Most tournaments and the most common games are played at either 35 or 50 points. 35 takes ~1-1.5 hrs to play if both players are competent and understand rules, while 50 might take ~2 hours maximum. Quite often games finish much faster than that, since the games ends when one caster dies.
Umm. Something like that. Privateer markets Warmachine as a game of resource management, and Hordes as a game of risk management:

In , a Warcaster generates a specific amount of Focus per turn and must choose to allocate this between casting spells and powering up Warjacks. The dilemma here is do I power up my 'Jacks to kill stuff, or do I use my Focus to cast spells that support my army?

In Hordes, Warbeasts generate Fury by performing certain actions, and a Warlock can leach a specific amount of Fury from these Warbeasts to cast spells. Leaving Fury on a Warbeasts means that it might frenzy and attack friendly models. The dilemma here is how much Fury to generate, if I generate too much trying to kill my target, is it worth killing some of my own models? Also is it worth risking the life of my Warbeast? A dead Warbeast will not generate the Fury I need to cast spells.

I love both games but am far better at Warmachine, though I am trying to bolster my Hordes skills atm.
Chosenbythesun's avatar

Chosenbythesun · 725 weeks ago

I love WarmaHordes. Please keep posting articles.

Also Warbeasts provide a spell for your Warlock to use, if the Warbeast dies, you can't use the spell anymore.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
This is true. The relationship between a Warlock and his/her Warbeasts is much more synergistic than that of a Warcaster and Warjacks.
We were talking about Warmachine in the chatbox.

Glancing at the models I decided I like mercenaries (something about my fantasy Dogs of War rubbing off).

15 points
Ashlenn D'Elyse +6
Mule 8
6 Arcane Tempest Gun Mages 6
Cylena Raefyll and 5 Nyss Hunters 7

For 25 points add
Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer 2
6 Horgenhold Forge Guard 5
Eiryss Angel of Retribution 3

I suppose for 35 points I'd bulk up the Horgenhold and Nyss Hunters to 10 man squads. That's 6 points leaving 4. That'll get me a Talon.
1 reply · active 725 weeks ago
Well, I use Ashlynn most frequently. Mercs are a bit more complex than the other lists, since you don't have free access to Mercs - you play a limited sublist, and then you can limit yourself even more by picking the Theme Force for a specific caster.

That said, for Ashlynn at 15 I'd recommend
Ash
-Vanguard
-Nomad/Freebooter
Cylena and 9 Nyss Hunters

If you really like the Forge Guard, go for it, but I find that the Nyss Hunters are plenty good enough in melee for me, and the Forgeguard get left behind since they're too slow. Ashlynn's spell will speed them up, but if you have it on Nyss Hunters instead it gets their defense to very hard to hit and they'll be in your enemy's business really fast.

When you do have the points, you want the Gun Mages & Officer to have the Mule Marshalled on them, because the Officer allows the Mule to use their own magic shots.

Other things to note are Taryn di la Rovissi, who's a Gun Mage solo who has the ability to let you ignore enemy models she hits so you can fire through them. It's... pretty brutal.
Okay, so the chatbox is down for me again. Do you mind looking at my list at some point? (If not, here it is)

Warcaster: Warwitch Deneghra (+5)

Battlegroup:

1 Defiler-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------5

1 Nightwretch------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------4

Units:

1 unit of Bane Thralls (Leader & 5 Grunts)-----------------------------------------------------5

1 unit of Bile Thralls (Leader & 5 Grunts) ------------------------------------------------------5

1 Necrotech w/ Scrap Thrall------------------------------------------------------------------------1
5 replies · active 725 weeks ago
It's not bad at all, to be honest. It'll do fine if you know what you're doing with Denny. (:

Although I like the 4pt deathchickens more, if you do that you could upgrade the necrotech.
Thanks! I think I'll make that swap. Or pull out the necrotech and the Defiler and stick a Slayer in. I'm not sure. I need something that can go toe-to-toe with the Butcher if needed, so...
Nah man, you don't go toe to toe with the butcher. You debuff the hell out of him and destroy him with your infantry. (:

Feel free to slam him too, so you automatically hit him. But with denny you can ruin his armour.

I wouldn't bother with a slayer, you really want 2 arc nodes. (:
Good point... If I hit him with Crippling Grasp, Parasite, and The Withering in one round he should be just about useless for long enough to tear him about, especially since Bane Thralls have a debuff of their own.
Apart, that is. Though "tear him about" does sound interesting.
I have some questions on the nuts and bolts of the games.
I see Warmahordes guys using a bunch of cards and tokens when they play, are these essential or optional? Do cards come with the model kits? Do you get tokens in the starter box?

Looking at PP's online store I see books for each faction and Prime/Primal books that I assume are the main rulebook since I don't see anything else that looks like it would be. I thought I'd heard that all factions are updated at once and there's no codex creep, what's the situation there?

GW seems to view the internet as some kind of evil voodoo witchcraft to be feared and hated. How about PP?

Are there factions that are much better or worse than the others, or is it pretty well balanced? Any shitty, useless units/models?
14 replies · active 725 weeks ago
The cards come with your models. They're necessary, as they have all the stats on them, and often you'll mark damage taken on them (preferably with dry-erase marker on plastic sleeves). PP does produce a faction deck, but that's mostly for people who already had a bunch of old models with older cards. Tokens are optional but quite useful - PP sells these separate with faction colors, but you can always just use wood circles or coins or beads or something similar.

PP just released Mark II this past year - 12 books in 12 months. They updated all the factions to a new (and generally agreed) better rule set. The faction books updated each army to the new ruleset. The main rulebook contains the rules of the game and the stats for a small selection of models (the ones originally introduced when they first started). With each new expansion, there's only 1 book to buy, and it contains rules for all of the new additions in that expansion for each army.

PP loves the internet and communicates vigorously with their playerbase. They have a very good forum and PP staff actually respond to questions and such.

Factions as a whole are pretty well balanced; some might argue that in terms of pure scale Cryx and Legion are the "strongest" while Skorne might be the "weakest," but it's a matter of microns, really. Of course every faction has units that certainly outshine others, though there are very few terribad-never-take units and everything is at least playable, if not competitive.
*grumbles about stealing all my replies*
you snooze you lose!
I was at work, good sir! :P

In all seriousness, thanks for handling this. Saves me work ;)
tzeentchling sounds better. maybe he should replace you :P...er I mean work together...
muahahahaha... my master plan is all coming together. :D
Not sure what I'd say. "The game focuses on competition more than on hobby." Past that.... o.O I'd just be saying the same point and giving a few examples. :3 I only ever really focused on competitive 40k, so I'm probably the wrong guy for that sort of material.
And not entirely true anyway. The rules are written tighter so there's less confusion, but the playerbase runs the gamut from highly competitive to entirely theme-oriented.
To add to this, one of the 'problems' with Warmahordes is that the factions are distinct. Legion or Khador IMHO are the most comparable insofar as they're the most direct - you can tell what every unit can do and it can do that thing well, and then you'll go to town with them. Cryx and Circle are heavily tricks oriented - Cryx with the debuffs and Circle with just being maneuver-heavy, though you can build very strongly against those archetypes if you wish.

Menoth and the Trolls layer buffs, and Skorne, Cygnar, and Retribution are all very combined-arms oriented to one degree or another - little wows you on paper until you line up your activations correctly. Mercs and Minions are all over the place.

All of which is to say - if a playstyle clicks with you then it does, and if it doesn't then it's going to be really difficult to play. That said, with the variety of Warlocks and Warcasters out there each faction can build radically different builds - playing Grim Trolls is NOTHING like playing Madrak Trolls.
Thanks for the reply, sounds pretty cool. Might have to get a Legion of Everblight starter sometime soon...
One other thing to add here, that seems very small but makes a HUGE difference:

Privateer Press releases expansion books that include a few new models for every faction, broken up by Warmachine and Hordes (which generally alternate). The flow was disrupted briefly as they upgraded the system to Mk.II, but generally what happens is an expansion comes out and everyone gets 3-5 new releases, all tuned against one another and tuned against the existing metagame as they see it.

Furthermore, because they include the rules of a given model with the actual model itself, they also release models more or less constantly in a slow trickle, as opposed to all at once.

It's a system that usually works well, partly because EVERYONE is excited when a new book comes out, and by buying the book you not only know what your new stuff does, but you know what everyone else's new stuff does. Having the ability to easily reference your enemy in a book you were already going to buy anyway for your own stuff is quite nice.

As a last little note, in WM/H, the books in general are entirely optional, with the possible exception of the rulebook (which is nice to have handy to reference). Everything you need is on the cards. The rules are also worded very carefully and consistently on the cards, and they have a (very active, up to date) section on their forums for ruling on rules interactions, which gets responses from the company directly and (usually) efficiently.
I'd like to add that there are few shitty or useless models per se, but the effectiveness of a unit/model will vary greatly depending on your choice of Warcaster/Warlock.

Warmahordes doesn't work like 40K, where TH/SS Terminators are always a good choice, since your army is generally designed around the capabilities of your Warcaster/Warlock. At the the simplest level, ranged units are pretty poor in an army led by a Warlock whose spells and abilities include a crapload of melee buffs; and melee units are less useful in an army led by a Warcaster with a crapload of range or aiming buffs.
I would love to see a quick overview of the factions and their general play style as I am keen to check this game out.
1 reply · active 725 weeks ago
That's what I'm talkin bout!
How well do warmachine and horde armies compare when playing against one another? Seems like it would be hard to balance that sort of thing.
3 replies · active 725 weeks ago
Imagine if Warhammer and Warhammer 40k used the same game system with all units scaled to the same standard.

human<elf<Chaos Warrior<Space Marine<Greater Daemon

You'd be able to play armies against each other without concern for which system they were made for. Warmachine and Hordes is like that.
Guestivus's avatar

Guestivus · 725 weeks ago

Nah, they're really not separate games in the slightest. Picture it sort of like previous edition's Tomb Kings or Ogres compared to any other Fantasy army. The magic system is different, but that's it, everything is still designed to play with everything else.
Ah ok, that makes sense then. Thanks!
TheLunaticMoon's avatar

TheLunaticMoon · 725 weeks ago

Very nice article, Arch. Quite informative and a joy to read. I am certainly looking forward to future installments.

I'm getting a Cygnar force together myself. Really like their take on the combined arms approach. Played a couple games with my battlegroup set and quickly got hooked on the game and my Warcaster of choice... STRYKER!! He's just such a nice versatile 'caster with a tool for most anything except Stealth models at range. I eventually intend to have an eStryker Tier 4 force as well, for thundery melee goodness.

I really need to swap out my Charger for a Hunter (a.k.a. Huntard) ASAP, though. Spending half of Stryker's focus a turn on a single range-oriented light 'jack isn't all that appealing to me. I'd rather have my accurate, deceptively effective pop-gun lurking in the bushes.
Just started Warmachine a few months back myself, looking forward to more articles :-)

Very fun to play, alot quicker and alot more brutal than 40k.

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