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Thursday, July 28, 2011

'Ard Boyz Prelim Scenarios

Welp, it's that time of year again: time to try and win some free prizes off of poorly-designed scenarios. Let's see what kind of nightmare we have in store for us this time around.

They can be found here, for those who want to check them out.

Round 1
Pitched Battle, Kill Points. You give your opponent a "traitor" that is a Marine with W2, I5, and 4+/5++, and the Indepedent Character special rule; he is allowed to join only troop units (at least as I read the rule) and is worth five KP instead of one. Turn 1 has night fighting active.

Extra BP are for killing the enemy's traitor, killing an enemy HQ, controlling more terrain than an opponent, and getting "your" traitor into the enemy deployment zone.

Overall? Kinda dumb, but nothing horrible going on. KP mission right off the bat will be somewhat annoying, but I don't think it will be crippling for me. I'm all but guaranteed to get the BP for controlling terrain (Termagants are good at hiding behind things), I can bounce "my" traitor from squad to squad in order to keep him alive; with 10-16 ablative bodies and the ability to Go to Ground, that makes a tough nut to crack. Night Fight is a nice little bonus for making things easier on me as a non-shooting army.


Round 2
Seize Ground, Spearhead. There are automatically five objectives, one in the center of each quarter and one in the middle of the table. Hrmmm, sounds familiar. "Your" objective is worth one, the "neutral" ones are worth two, and the central objective is worth four. Is your opponent's objective worth anything? Seems unclear. Game is always six turns long, with Night Fight on the final turn only. Oh, and no Infiltrate or Outflank on this mission for some reason.

Extra BP are for controlling all the objectives (seriously?), keeping all your HQs alive, having no enemy units in your deployment zone, and killing all your opponent's HS choices. (If they have none, you always get this one.)

This one also looks pretty good for me- tons of objectives is a very, very nice thing to see around, and I can pretty much guarantee that the central objective will be held or contested by me; the flank objective near "my" board edge is likewise fairly easy. Night Fight on this again? Well, sheee-it, son, I'm liking this more and more. Is the mission balanced? It'd be okay if not for the lack of Infil/Outflank and the weird Night Fight. But will I like it? Hells yes.

Round 3
Victory Points, Dawn of War. One HQ unit, selected at the beginning of the game, is worth double VP. No Infiltrate, random game length again. If you're within 375 VP of the enemy, the game is a draw- this is an important number.

Extra BP are for killing all the enemy troops, keeping your "general" alive, and killing all the enemy FA units (darn.)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but spawned Termagants are worth zero VP, yes? Like Tau Drones, they are a Kill Point, but no Victory Points because no points were paid for them. Assuming that is true... yeeha! All of my units end up being ridiculously tough to get KP off of- they have to do four wounds to each Tervigon, bring down two of the three Carnifexes in a squad, etc. Getting the extra BP may not be terribly easy for me (and I give up one to the enemy automatically by having no FA), but it's a fairly simple thing to overwhelm them on VP alone in this one.

Overall
While these aren't great missions, neither are they terrible, and the deck isn't heavily stacked against melee armies the way it is many years. Bar something abominable happening, I can look forward to an easy advancement to the semifinals with these missions.

Comments (47)

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waterlootian's avatar

waterlootian · 711 weeks ago

1st scenario hurts all jumper or all bike armies as the traitor is walking.
2 replies · active 711 weeks ago
Indeed, although I would expect that at 2500 most of them would end up with at least some support from foot units (Devs, etc.) It's still annoying for them, though.
willydstyle's avatar

willydstyle · 711 weeks ago

But he might only be able to join Troops units?
I'd check with your TO on the Spawned termagant/VP issue. I've always seen it ruled that they count as the VP value as if you had bought them as part of the army. It isn't specified though, so it could be ruled either way and it is best to know before the game rather than argue at the end.
MyNameIsMudd's avatar

MyNameIsMudd · 711 weeks ago

Tyranids in tard boys eh? good luck
PiranhaBurger's avatar

PiranhaBurger · 711 weeks ago

Erm, unless i'm missing soemthing in the first scenario the traitor model doesn't have the independant character rule, it merely says (copy and pasting here) "He gains the independent special rule".

last time I looked at a rulebook there was no such thing as independant.
1 reply · active 711 weeks ago
NChomsky3d's avatar

NChomsky3d · 711 weeks ago

Since there is no "independent" special rule, but there they say he's a character that is independent, I'm pretty sure they mean he's an IC. It's not like they haven't made poorly worded entries before.
NChomsky3d's avatar

NChomsky3d · 711 weeks ago

The traitor, who is an IC, is worth 5KP on his own, plus a battlepoint. What's that Vindicare? Why yes, shooting him out of a squad sounds lovely!

I actually like these missions, as they make you (at least in some cases) rethink your strategy. If I put the traitor way in the backfield, the enemy army can often be forced to come to me, which is perfect for my GKs. The lack of infiltrating is a pain, though.
Puppy, what IS your 'Ard Boyz list? I'm curious.
4 replies · active 711 weeks ago
To be posted very this weekend. Kirb likes his schedules. :P
Says Puppy as he ruins it!
You want I should wait three days to talk about the thing that was just posted, or you want I should post right away and get you some traffic? Don't be a whiner, Kirb. :P
Uh. yes? lol
I do find it moderately irritating that they start adding in rules found in the full sized rulebook and not in the minibook a lot of us have... however, my Tyranids are excited for this event, though I'm still working on a list that'll be viable with only 3 Hive Guard
2 replies · active 711 weeks ago
willydstyle's avatar

willydstyle · 711 weeks ago

Victory Points are in the mini rulebook, if that's what you're assing about.
huh, why so they are...
Anything is better than 3 KPs for Rhinos.
2 replies · active 711 weeks ago
Dear God, don't remind me... Ugh! I'd blocked that memory! It's a wonder I even took 3rd that year.
Here I was thinking he was referencing Lords of Terra...
Stelek brought up the interesting point of Al'Rahem. No infiltration/outflank means the platoon auto-dies? Thanks!
2 replies · active 711 weeks ago
willydstyle's avatar

willydstyle · 711 weeks ago

It doesn't mean it auto-dies, it means that the rules have no way of explaining what happens.
Well, barring a fix, it means that he can't be deployed. Same thing in the end.

I wonder which red-shirt they got to write the rules this year?
Al'Rahem really needed the line "Regardless of the mission rules" like terminators have to deepstrike.
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Al'Rahem really just needed to make his platoon infiltrating. I wouldn't have sold the model then.
I find it annoying that they start tossing in wonky rules instead of keeping it simple and to the point. I dont have any issue with understanding how the missions work(barring the question of do spawned gants count), i just enjoy not having to think about anything beyond playing the game... Either way, my Tyranids are looking forward to this year, just need to figure out a list that only has 3 Hive Guard
3 replies · active 711 weeks ago
sorry for the double post, my original one was not showing at all
They add in wonky rules because people seem to be on the belief that playing a 'stock standard' mission over and over is boring.
that's just silly... Sure, I like a little variety once and a while, but that's for when I'm playing Beerhammer with my friends, not for a tournament on the scale of Ard Boyz
NChomsky3d's avatar

NChomsky3d · 711 weeks ago

So I just had a thought. Draigowing/Loganwing/Deathwing etc etc will have a much harder time running the first mission, as you're giving up a 40-60pt model for something that is potentially only 5 or 6. That's a massive point swing.
9 replies · active 711 weeks ago
waterlootian's avatar

waterlootian · 711 weeks ago

Are you giving up a model from your current army list or just an extra model to use as a traitor? I read it as giving the opponent one of my extra space marines to go after although I see your interpretation as well
NChomsky3d's avatar

NChomsky3d · 711 weeks ago

I view it as giving them a model from my army, though I hadn't thought about your interpretation. Would it be up to the TOs?
I also read it as giving them a troop model from your army to use.
As I read it, you are giving them (or more accurately lending them) a model, but do not subtract the model from your own forces. I could be wrong, though.
I think this is correct, it'd be really awkward if you were taking actual models from your armylist... now, a curious point is what if a player doesnt have an extra model to spare? Granted, I have more tyranids than I can shake a stick at, but if someone who's just starting and is fielding every model they own, what happens then? And for that matter, what's preventing someone from taking a horrendously large model and giving it to their opponent? "Here you go, this Trygon is the only extra model I have, now that unit can be seen by everybody"
Granted, it does say "troop model", but is that the same thing as "a model from the Troops section of your armylist"? Common sense says yes, but RAW leaves it up in the air. And what if you have models that shift Force Org locations based on your list, do they count too?
I think it's another one of those cases of the RAW being really bad and the RAI being reasonably obvious. I believe technically it says "troop model," so it has to be something from your Troops selections, but on the other hand, some armies can field some pretty crazy troops these days, like Walkers, MCs, Land Raiders (dedicated transports count!), etc.

In all likelihood the answer is effectively "don't be a jerk" and just give them a random model to use. If you actually don't have one, have someone else lend them a lone model.
Not really, a points swing but hardly massive. Could be a big deal for a squad that goes from 5 to 4.
Ummmm, that's strikes me as down right weird that only the first mission has infiltrate. Infiltrate should be pretty standard, man.
2 replies · active 711 weeks ago
Yes, it's rather stupid.
Indeed though Infiltrating is rare these days.
Not that it would ever happen, but I would find it hilarious if for the first scenario a Tyranid player jokingly gave their opponent a tervigon to use and then found out they had gaunts on hand. Then all of a sudden he finds out it's ridding in a land raider and producing gaunts.
4 replies · active 711 weeks ago
Even if you give them a Tervigon, the model you give them does not have any special rules, etc, from its original profile, so all it does is making a honkin' big target of itself.
My apologies about the tervigon fitting into a transport for some odd reason I thought it became and infantry because of the mission. Regardless the mission doesn't say the unit loses it's special rules so, but then again it also doesn't say it keeps them so it will be interesting how that is ruled.

And for the record termaguants would probably be worth VP
A particular model does not imply particular rules- the same model can be a Devastator, Sternguard, Vanguard, Assault Marine (with pack removed), or many other things. Because the scenario specifies what the rules for the "lent" model are, by implication it does not have any other rules. If you want to argue that it keeps them, you're going to have to come up with something stronger than "but usually it has those rules, so..." because this is pretty clearly a non-usual case.

Is there an FAQ/errata/etc anywhere that specifies the Termagant question, or provides a precedent? The only one I am aware of is Gun Drones, which do not count for VP in any way. That, to me, at least implies that it may be the case that "created" units are not worth VP.
Yeah, but the odds of GW actually clarifying any of these scenarios seems reasonable slim, so those rulings will probably end up being made by the TOs running the different venues. Silly, but there you are.
waterlootian's avatar

waterlootian · 711 weeks ago

FWIW, GW released an updated version of the scenarios doc. Key changes:
1) added "Seize the Initiative" as a special rule to all 3 scenarios so I guess if it doesn't say Infiltrate/Outflank/Scouts that means you can't do it
2) First scenario you give "1 troop model form your army list to represent the traitor". So Deathwing/Jumper/Biker armies lose one of their pricey models and the traitor loses all his equipment and special rules. I was hoping that if I at least had to lose a biker marine, it'd at least hose the other guy up since he can't get in a transport with JJ, bikes or termie armor.
3) Second scenario spells out that the two deployment zones are worth 1 pt each
4) Still no Scouts or Infiltrate for scenarios 2 & 3

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