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Friday, September 30, 2011
Ogre Kingdom Army Review - Part 9: Summary

What a crazy trip this has been.
Most of this writing has been on my holidays off work, where I can focus on it and sticking together all the new ogre stuff I bought. I've got a wonderful Thundertusk now that's trying it's damned hardest to stick to the base. The rest of my time has been writing this, playing Space Marine or eating or sleeping.
Ogres as a whole are an aggressive army, which favour taking a proactive approach of charging the enemy. They have a large amount of attacks in combat and have a good magic phase to back them up, used by tough wizards who can hold their own compared to anything less than a chaos sorcerer. Ogres also have decent shooting, large monsters, heavy hitting cavalry and the options for lots of models or very few. On top of this, their heroes and lords can cause hell and get to some wickedly high damage potential.
They of course have their weaknesses. They will hurt you in close combat but have low initiative, which doesn't help when enemies get spells that prey on this. On top of that, multiple wounds hurt them more than any other army, but they have some methods to deal with warmachines in the form of faster units, specialised maneaters, gorgers or shooting them back.
These strengths and weaknesses ofset each other and help them to be quite a balanced army. You can have a lot of fun picking how your army works and it'll still run well enough for you to do what you cane to do. In most cases, this is carve a path of bloody death through the enemies ranks and eat the fallen.
To go over their main army strengths and weaknesses: Ogres are a close combat army that win combat using a mixture of volume of attacks and support attacks, being very tough and durable per model and benefiting from charging heavily. They have decent shooting via the specials and rare slots. They play aggressively and favour an in-your-face style gameplay, which is boosted by their magic. Ogre Wizards aren't shabby at all, with their greatest selling point being the ability to actually want them in melee and being able to deck enemy wizards in the face. The Lore of the Great Maw isn't too shabby either, supporting your troops with offense and defensive buffs with a few damage spells here and there. Depending on your choice of specials, rares and heroes your army can vary widely, and allows you to really cherry pick what suits you best. Most people also forget that Ogres are actually quite fast, with only Gnoblars being M4 compared to 6+ for the rest of your army.
The downsides are the low model count and initiative value. Both of these mean that 'initiative tests or removed' such as the Purple Sun will rip straight through you. Ogres hate multiple wounds with a passion so warmachines have a field day destroying your movement trays full of fat and muscle. They aren't going to be the best shooters but it's an element to support you getting into combat. On top of that, you're not a high leadership army. These are offput by several abilities to deal with such weaknesses: Warmachines can be singled and hunted out (with lone sabertusks, ironblasters, maneaters and your own spellcasting), whilst wizards can also have methods of being dealt with (lone sabertusks, hellheart, your own counter magic and maneaters). To make an Ogre army, you must offset these weaknesses, the leadership one being as easy as a tyrant or slaughtermaster with a Battle Standard and the latter requiring either some cunning and good placement, or changing parts of your list to help out.
As an Ogre player, I've greatly enjoyed this new update and hope that you all took this little series well. Of all things, I try not to say whether something is good, great or the best, simply tell you my general feelings and let you make your own decision. Enjoy the new figures at least, have a good one.
Also, I post here now. Hi.
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Ogre Kingdom Army Review - Part 9: Summary
2011-09-30T06:00:00+10:00
Saramoff
Analysis|Ogre Kingdoms|Review|Saramoff|Warhammer Fantasy|
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Prometheus 101p · 705 weeks ago
thediceabide 4p · 705 weeks ago
Thalenchar · 705 weeks ago
You don't need a tyrant at all. For me it's not even close. Ld problem can be offset by the Standard of Discipline and what combat prowess the SM lacks compared to the Tyrant is more than compensated for by the SM's ability to cast.
Saramoff · 705 weeks ago
Ogres aren't a high leadership army. If you take a tyrant, you lose out on a Slaughtermaster unless you're at 3k above, and you need the level 3 wizard and magic items he can provide. Then you need a BSB bruiser, as well as a level 2 butcher to augment your magic and save you from getting destroyed in the magic phase.
By all means, take a tyrant. In a 3k or above game, and enjoy having almost 1000 of your points sunk into lords. If you want expensive combat lords on a high leadership army, take Warriors of Chaos.
For 15 points however, you can upgrade your BSB to have a Standard of Unity. Slap it with your Slaughtermaster, 15 point leadership 9. Or take a tyrant. Your choice.
Prometheus 101p · 705 weeks ago
B) How the hell can any army be "not a leadership army"?!? The game forces you to take lead checks, quite a fair bit. You need leadership for that.
C) Check your math. You can actually fit both a Slaughter master and tyrant in 2000 pts, thought you can't really give them any magic items to speak of, so that's a little silly. However, at 2500, you can give one almost full kit, and the other a hell heart.
D) Whatever. It is possible to make the game not all about magic, it really is.
Saramoff · 705 weeks ago
B: Leadership 8 from your general with a BSB is quite sturby. As stated before, it can be 9 with a Slaughtermaster in a unit with a Standard of Unity. For 15 points, this helps to alleviate your leadership issues.
C: Yes, you can, but you have exactly 90 points of magic items between them. You either have a naked tyrant who isn't very killy and a slaughtermaster who's pimped out, a tyrant who's kitted for killing and a naked slaughtermaster (no hellheat, grut's sickle or dispel scroll) or both of them being average and not reaching full potential. Then you need a BSB, and possibly a second wizard. It's too costly. Take a damn standard of unity.
D: Okay, you keep thinking that. Tell that to every army that has a wizard and high magic/wizard defences to compensate. The fact is, a single wizard changes how the game is run. A single wizard with Death grabs a purple sun and you instantly have an uphill battle to face, because 'the game isn't about magic even though the setting is heavily influenced by magic, has an entire phase dedicated to it and has some of the most game changing abilities currently present in it". Yeah, no. That's like saying "It is possible to make 5th edition 40k a game not all about mech, it really is."
Prometheus 101p · 705 weeks ago
B) Not really, at least not enough. And besides, it's not just the 15 pts, it's that you could be using that magic banner for something else, like a runemaw.
C) You put the 90 pts on the tyrant, duh. The slaughter master doesn't need to be pimped out, at all, you can put you hell heart on a reg butcher. The fact that you even suggest otherwise, suggests you really have no idea how a tyrant, and in fact ogres, work. This was further reinforced when you were saying silly things about gut maws.
D) Point of fact, you can do 40k without mech. Ever hear of footdar? Various "wings"? Point is, there are always other ways to deal with the issue. Your response seems to be "Buyin any non-wizard characters besides a BSB is stupid" well, no, I think you're wrong. This is reminding me, btw, when everyone was saying GK librarians were the shit, and guys like Draigo were simply too expensive. And where has that gone? People are realizing Librarians are little flat. Draigo is unkillable.
E) I'd like to point out that I think you have made this entirely too confrontational, though I admit to having responded in kind. It was just a tounge in cheek jab. Except.....I really do think you need a tyrant.
Saramoff · 705 weeks ago
B: The runemaw is 60 points and makes you nearly immune to your own buffing spells. It's not as good as it used to be, and can only be taken on a BSB. This means 60 points on top of a tyrant for not having it for just the leadership 9. Far too costly.
C: So your slaughtermaster doesn't get a Grut's Sickle (to make him a better wizard), and you have a beaty tyrant that can be more or less ignored when the enemy says "no" to your challenge, negating your Gut Maw's biggest point of the item?
I'd like to cut in here and say that whilst you consider *me* the one making this confrontational, you're telling me "I have no idea how tyrants or ogres work". Provocational statements like that do not help your case here.
D: Footdar isn't good. "Wings" tend to be gimmick armies or have some abilities to compensate for the lack of mech. Draigowing has an army of rocks for instance. And yes, wizards are very important. Warhammer is a magic game, with a magic phase, with spells that will destroy your I2 ass. You need to realise this and compensate for it, much like lists in 40k must have anti-tank. Enemies will bring tanks and if you're unequiped to deal with them, you won't stand a chance.
Librarians are still awesome, and draigo is too expensive and not unkillable. On average, Abaddon slugs him in a fight. Draigo is taken for a decent combat character, but mostly for paladins as troops and grand strategy.
Will that be everything? I hope so.
Prometheus 101p · 705 weeks ago
B) I am really quite confident that the Runemaw affeecting you spells is a mistake. There are other >50pt banners worth taking, you're nitpicking.
C) The gruts sickle is nice, certainly not required. I would be much more likely to put it on a butcher, if I took it.
The fact that sometimes people will be smart, and not accept the challenge, does not mean it's not valuable to have a premier challenge ready character.
D) Everything you say from this point on is completely wrong. Do you even play 40k? Have you been paying attention to the several big tournaments won by Footdar? Deathwing has won quite a few, as have Draigowing?
Are you going to the Ard Boyz finals? I am. I got there, using a list with Draigo (wouldn't really call it Draigowing) and no, no librarian. I'm going to claim I have more authority to speak on this than you do. And I use Draigo is lists as small as 1500, too, (though more normally, 1850-2000).
Want to tell me that Land Raiders suck? Go ahead, pick that fight
Saramoff · 705 weeks ago
C: If you want a challenge ready character, take Bragg and you have a legitimate reason to complain your character sucks. Yes, having a huge chunk of your magical item budget negated by saying "no" when you reach combat is huge, and dampens the use of a Gut Maw. Especially when you're asking permission.
D: Dismissing any of my points like that is silly and I'm going to assume you're posting something inflamatory now. No, i'm not going to Ard Boyz because I've not got the best work schedule to do it. No, footdar winning a tournament doesn't make them good. Orks can win. Necrons can win. Melee tau could win too, but it does not make an army good. The fact that you believe tournament results mean "this army is better" shows you lack the judgement to make a call of an army on your own, and must use other people's opinions.
A single land raider will suck when you realise it's got all the armies melta guns pointed at it. And yes, people will pack melta guns. However, I find it strange that you're now resorting to using a tank as your point, when "40k isn't about mech."
Odd that. I've also noticed that you've been posting similar comments on other articles here. I'd advise you to stop this practice, as you're giving yourself no credit.
Prometheus 101p · 705 weeks ago
I wasn't really saying you have to placed at well at Ard boyz in order to have an opinion. (but I do love the "I hear my mother calling me" excuse, btw) But I did, and I really think that should come with a presumption that I do know what I'm talking about.
If you think tournament results don't matter, you're an idiot, STFU.
If you think Draigo is ineffective, I prove you're wrong all the time,STFU.
If you think Librarians are the best GK HQ possible, 100's of tournament players disagreee with you, and you haven't been paying attention, STFU.
If you think Metlas are the solution to LRs, heh, you're bad at math. STFU.
Saramoff · 705 weeks ago
That's strange, coming from the man who accuses me of strawmans and fails to insult me in the following post.
>I wasn't really saying you have to placed at well at Ard boyz in order to have an opinion. (but I do love the "I hear my mother calling me" excuse, btw) But I did, and I really think that should come with a presumption that I do know what I'm talking about.
You haven't shown your expertise so far in knowing what you're talking about. And yes, some of us have jobs that interfere with our gaming. Shift work does that.
>If you think tournament results don't matter
They don't.
>If you think Draigo is ineffective
I never said he was ineffective.
>If you think Librarians are the best GK HQ possible
I never said that either.
>If you think Metlas are the solution to LRs, heh, you're bad at math
Being in melta range gives you an average roll of 15 to pen a vehicle. Yeah, very bad at math.
You went from a post that could have explained within reason your opinion to basically saying "STFU you're an idiot." There's no reason for this at all; I've posted ways to deal with your issues and presented my cases that what I've said makes sense, and all I seem to get in return is inflammatory comments.
Be constructive and mature or don't post. I refer you to kirby's posts about comment etiquette: http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/2011/05/comment...
"I don't want to moderate what is said in the comments. I don't want 3++ to become a cesspit and I certainly don't want to turn people off from coming here to learn and discuss things.
Watch what you say and treat others with respect. That's not too much to ask. "
Prometheus 101p · 705 weeks ago
.......huh?
I would be happy to debate you about the finer points of strategy. You have not seemed interested in doing that, however. Stop being a petty bitch.
By the way, did go through an up and down every post? Cute. You're a child.
artemi7 78p · 705 weeks ago
Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun, Purple Sun...
*laugh*
Though, seriously, I liked reading this through, even though I don't even play Fantasy, let alone Ogres. It's nice to see what a codex is like across the pond, if you will. *laugh*
Saramoff · 705 weeks ago
Mournfangs and Maneaters.
Decent magic.
Crap weapons.
Four line ogre review, bam!
Scuzgob 96p · 705 weeks ago
im currently building up my ogres too, because of the 8th ed army layouts and the new points costs, i no longer have enough core choice models to make an army bigger than 1500pts. WHAT A SHAME, HUH
Saramoff · 705 weeks ago
Scuzgob 96p · 705 weeks ago