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Tuesday, September 20, 2011

Ogre Kingdoms Now & Then - The Now Part 5 - Named Characters



Saramoff here with the next installment of the new Ogre Kingdoms review. We're looking at the special characters this time.

Tradelord Greasus Tribestealer Drakecrush Gatecrasher Hoardmaster Goldtooth the Shockingly Obese:

I prefer to call him King Fatty.

So, King Fatty. The rules for 8th edition made him a monster, which means he couldn't join units and got shot to pieces. Luckily, he's a monstrous infantry now. An ogre with fear and no Ogre Charge and movement 4. Oh dear, they didn't seem to change those bits.

He has decent WS, high strength, monster toughness and wounds, only I1 and A3 with no armour. He strikes at S10 and does D3 wounds, but with no volume of attacks this doesn't present as much of a threat as it should do. Then again, he can cause some damage, if he doesn't get turned to mince for being I1.



The I1 is a huge disadvantage, mostly due to Purple Suns all over the battlefield. King Fatty doesn't even have any magic resistance to help him out. He gets a 4+ ward save though, which helps a little. Unluckily, not against Purple Suns.

What does King Fatty offer his troops? D3 enemy units within 18” and in line of sight gain stupidity, which may help if you didn't have battle standard banner rerolls helping the enemy out. +1 to combat resolutions within 18” for your units and the ability to automatically rally. This might be good and certainly may remove the need for your own BSB, but your own BSB has greater protection against Purple Suns.

I'll beat this dead rhinox until the point of Purple Suns and his horrendous initiative is understood.

So far, King Fatty isn't the best of characters to use. When you check his entry, he's 545 points of “not the best character” you'll ever see. At such a price tag, King Fatty won't see many games.

You can take him if you want, and you don't even need Ironguts fielded as mandatory anymore. You pay your 545 points, take one Initiative test and remove him off the bard in 1, maybe 2 turns. Good luck fielding a slaughtermaster to help dispel that Purple Sun too, what with 545 points of your Lord allowance being taken.

King Fatty is a disappointment, especially as the new book gave him quite a cool story too. Generally worth avoiding.

Skrag the Slaughterer:

I'm gonna get this one out of the way first and say he's 425 points. And isn't too much of a waste of points as Greasus. Most notably, he has I3 as well and is a level 4 wizard.

Skrag comes standard with good combat stats, 6 attacks from a mixture of frenzy and 2 hand weapons, immunity to poison, killing blow, terror, ogre charge and the Lore of the Great Maw to back him up. Being able to unleash a lot of attacks with reliable buffs will help out a lot, but so far he's hardly making up for those points.

Skrag allows you to remove the restrictions of duplicate gorger choices and they can be taken in units of 2. Double the killing power, less manoeuvrability. On top of this, Skrag kept his cauldron so he can buff himself and his gorgers. The more Skrag kills, the better he and his Gorgers get. Obviously, this means you want Skrag in your enemies face as quick as possible.

The benefits the cauldron gives to himself and his Gorgers are actually quite good, and don't take as many kills as before. At 15 kills, both Skrag and his Gorgers have +1 attack each, hatred and regeneration. This makes them quite a potent force, as all of them will have come on board after just 1 kill.

The best way to use Skrag then is to stock up on Gorgers, have him with a good unit, rush him right into the enemy and let the slaughter commence. Gorgers, whilst not the best choice, will get a lot of benefit from Skrag's buffs as well as his area Gut Magic buffs.

Will a Skrag/Gorger army work and will you see it often? It may not come up often but it'll be a very interesting army to face for sure. Whether it can work is ultimately up to what you face and how you use your army. It will certainly have a theme of surrounding your enemy with Gorgers whilst Skrag cleaves into models left right and center.

Skrag can work, if you take a Gorger heavy army (which he allows). Otherwise, a normal Slaughtermaster covers your wizard needs.

Golgfag Maneater:

A name familiar to the more veteran players of Warhammer Fantasy, Golgfag has been in the Warhammer lore for at least a decade, maybe even two. He totals 260 points of your heroes and has the stats of a Bruiser, other than I4 and A6 (due to 2 hand weapons). He also sports a BS4 Ogre Pistol and Light armour.

Easy Come, Easy Go means you get 2d6x10 points of free magical items to gear him with, ranging from 20 points (a potion of strength or something similar) to 120 points (whip out the Argos catalogue) to take at your leisure. It simply says magical items, so whether you're restricted to the generic items of the Warhammer Rulebook or even items from the Ogre Kingdoms book, will need clarifying. Otherwise, you get a random selection of points to work with. Be sure you know what you can get for what points, as to best equip him in any level of luck.

His boys, Golgfag's Maneaters, are properly trusted by your allies and they too trust them as well. They also steal Stubborn and Vanguard. At first this doesn't seem too bad but it means you're now with a Vanguard unit that doesn't have the other skill needed to harass warmachines or hunt wizards and you can't decide on any other rules if you take Maneaters, and you usually will. It also means you can't give Vanguard to another unit, as if you did take 2 you'd potentially have a combo of Vanguard/Sniper and Poison/Scouts for wizard/harsassment duties. All in all, it takes away from the flexible nature and makes, if you take them, a unit of Maneaters, less flexible.

Luckily, it's optional so you don't really need to care. Only if you're allied, and even then you probably won't care.

The question right now is if he's worth those 260 points over a regular bruiser. He's not vastly overpriced and the dot of initiative and extra attack is handy, and you do have a chance for a lot of magical item points to make up for it. If it wasn't for those, he probably would be a bench warmer without a doubt.

He can work and he certainly can get a whole mess of items but at the same time, if you roll snake eyes you're up a creak without a paddle and only a potion of strength. He's expensive for what he does, but not Greasus level expensive. You won't be horribly gimped by taking him but you can do better elsewhere. Just be mindful that a Tyrant is 205 points, and Golgfag is 260 and he takes up a precious hero chunk of points.

Bragg the Gutsman:

On the other hand, you have Bragg.

Bragg is a 210 point bruiser, and although he's meant to be horrifying he only causes fear instead of terror. He has the exact same stats, same light armour, in fact a lot of him is the same.

Then he has this weapon called the Great Gutgouger.

It makes him strike at one strength higher (S6 in his case) which means he essentially has a Sword of Strife. Not being worth just 20 points, the only way Bragg could cost so much is if this weapon cost another 85 points. For 85 points more, in a challenge you get Heroic Killing Blow and anything Bragg kills in a challenge forces that unit to be disrupted.

That's it.

85 points is not worth Heroic Killing Blow of all things. The disruption would be nice, but not for 85 points. Ogres did need a challenge based hero, but at the cost he asks from your hero choices you'll be hard pressed to consider him a good choice.

Bragg is a disappointment, as he looked to be a great challenge-type hero. At his cost however, he's not going to be worth it, especially when you could just take a bruiser. Bragg is unfortunately not that good and if you do have his model, it's at least a nice thing to paint up and put on your shelf.

Comments (17)

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Shadowmancer's avatar

Shadowmancer · 706 weeks ago

Pit of Shades and Penundral Pendulum as well for things that can give Goldtooth a bad day. But they give ogres bad days anyway.
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
You have several methods to deal with this however. Ogres have good wizard and can get good magic defences (Bloodgruel, Runemaw, lone Sabertusks, wizard hunting maneaters, hellheart). Whilst they are dangerous, you only have to worry if they roll well or are a loremaster.

Loremasters tend to hate the runemaw, lone sabertusks, wizard hunting maneaters, hellheart and the likes anyway, because they're somewhat fragile. It's also very hard to cast said spells in combat and ogres are quick at getting there.
Where's the gorgers review? It was missing from rares...
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
That's because it's just been added to the special section.
yeah, greasus was never really good. just a combination of too big, squishy and slow.
i was going to make a skrag army with the old book, and i still might.
as for golgfag and bragg, i doubt ill ever use them. awesome models though. bragg would be a great executioner maneater with a little conversion work
I will never understand the logic behind making Greasus a playable unit. He's fat, can barely move(by Ogre Standards) and when he gets somewhere can't be bothered to deal enough damage. I understand making him a character just for funsies, but at least make his points reflect that.
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
He has a very good story in the fluff section, as well as all armies having their leader or best of the best being a playable lord. Greasus is no exception to this.

Shame about his stats and his old model.
I always feel Fantasy Special Characters are more of an afterthought in the army list than their 40K counterparts. Fun to take if you want to do a fluffy army, but hardly any has army unlocks allowing you to have more variation in your army (skaven has a couple though), or is actually any good (I'm not counting Teclis in this category; he's beyond mere good).
The Ogre Special Characters, while fun and fluffy, really just reaffirm that feeling...

Also, and this could definitely just be local group preference, there seems to be sort of a taboo on taking Special Characters if you play Fantasy, whereas there is no such thing in 40K.
Is that the same for you guys?
2 replies · active 706 weeks ago
its the same in my group, but only for lord characters. heroes and unit upgrade characters seem okay
Angrymarine's avatar

Angrymarine · 706 weeks ago

Theres always been a stigma attached to Special charcters, largely towards them not being your army, or creating "gimmiky lists". That being said, in Fantersy, there have been many more disapointing special charcters then good ones. The normal lord/hero is typically flat out better anyways.
You totally missed the best part about Scragg - he's Ld9. That alone frees up points for me to grab other magic banners on units, and also means I don't have to babysit a unit of ironguts with him. Or if I do, I can at least give them Banner of Eternal Flame.

I think he's probably the only worthwhile SC that ogres have. He'll be great in 'Ardboyz, with the ability to take 1500 pts of models that start the game off the board, and then come on wherever you like.
1 reply · active 706 weeks ago
Tyrants are also leadership nine, but other than his high leadership, Skrag's best part is his self/gorger buffs, being a level 4 wizard and being killy.
You don't think Bragg is a good investment? Being able to negate Steadfast is -huge- for ogres, who aren't generally going to have rank bonuses on anyone, ever.

Granted that in the average fight, your opponent just refuses the challenge, and gets what, one less attack? But when you're going after that horde with the enemy general in it, being able to make his general run and hide can be extremely powerful (especially given that he can't use the general's leadership for rolls that turn!) But if your opponent meets the challenge and can't kill Bragg in one turn, a heroic killing blow can decapitate his force, disrupt his horde, and probably send the entire thing packing (the heroic killing blow gives you combat res for each wound the general had, so you'll probably win combat by a lot!)

The potential to disrupt the enemy's plans is worth a good amount of points, no? Especially when you're up against armies that rely on having that general's high LD available for Inspiring Presence. The potential to tear up a tarpit isn't bad either.
3 replies · active 706 weeks ago
It's too many points for too situational a bonus, I feel. Like you said, most of the time they'll just ignore the challenge and lose an attack; if they're willing to accept, there is a pretty good chance whoever they sent up against him can actually win, because Bragg isn't _that_ good in a fight. Heroic Killing Blow is great and all, but if you don't roll sixes, they can just punch you to death.

If his ability to disrupt the enemy were more consistent I'd like him, but with a Tyrant's pricetag and a challenge-only ability, he just doesn't feel worth it.
Being able to negate steadfast is not worth 85 points, paired with heroic killing blow. Not at all.

Here's the issue with this. He gets one less attack, but saves his champion from a potential Heroic Killing Blow. The combat res bonus you'd get for killing him would be exactly the same as if Bragg just attacked the unit anyway, so there's little benefit in losing your champion.

Most combat generals that are worth a damn can't refuse a challenge anyway or won't want to. Most will be able to kill Bragg in 2 turns whilst you're relying on a 6 to do the job for you. It's exactly like having a lone model in 40k jumping a vehicle, hoping to rend to do some damage to it.

It's a bad idea, when you could take a cheaper bruiser who can actually deck face better.

Bragg won't disrupt the enemies plans. Most armies with killy lords/heroes have high leadership, rerolls or other special abilities like Cold Blooded, The Will of Chaos, or being High Elves.

This isn't even mentioning that it's only useful in a challenge. That hell Pit Abomination you need to kill won't be bothered. Neither will; the hundreds of Stonehorns you face.

Bragg isn't that good. Use him as a Maneater instead.
I'd also like to point out that Disrupting a unit doesn't remove Steadfast. It simply removes their rank bonus from their combat resolution. If they've got more ranks than you, you're steadfast.

So there you go, even by your definition of Bragg's worth, he doesn't do the job properly.
Something that you may not have noticed is that it says that Golgfag Maneater MAY nominate a unit of maneaters as his maneaters in which case they have to pick those specific rules. As it says may, that means that it's optional and that you don't have to make any of your maneaters his maneaters so that disadvantage isn't actually there.

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