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Monday, September 19, 2011

Ok, so, Archnomad is thinking about another army.


So, being bored of Space Wolves he's thinking of another army. Originally, it was gonna be Dark Eldar. But he's got something much more... fun... in mind. At the suggestion of Mike Brandt, I'm gonna run Draigowing. But I'm gonna run it well. ;)

How, you ask? Well, first off, I'm gonna run Karamazov. This is something I think everyone agrees on when you're running Draigowing (I mean, it's common fucking sense), because he brings 2 very important things to your army. One, he is another T5 body you can put in your Paladin squad, which means that units need to ping 3 wounds through before you have to put one on your Paladins. This is big. Why is this big? Well it means that you need to (usually) have 4 S8 shots to scare the unit. Second, and most importantly, he brings you the ability to automatically pass a LD test. That's huge. Means you can't be tank shocked/weaken resolve'd off the table. It rocks. He's also a relentless MM, and has a funny orbital strike.

Also, I'm bringing long range firepower, so people don't just kite me. So, this means our list is gonna look like the following:

Draigo
Karamazov
Venerable Psyfledread
Techmarine w/Blind Grenades + Psychotroke Grenades
10 Paladins w/3 Hammers, 2 Psycannons, 2 Master Crafted Psycannons, Apothecary, Banner and Halberd.
1 Paladin with Hammer
3 Psyfledreads
2000



Ok, so now guys, the real reason I put this thread up. I have decided how I'm going to paint this army (bone coloured, red secondary colour, metal and gold). However, I have not decided on how I'm gonna do ol' Uncle Karamazov. See, I hate finecast. Only had bad experiences with it. And a model that old and that big, it's gonna be a disaster. So, I need conversion ideas.

...

Well?

I promise progress shots as the army evolves.[=


***Not worth creating a second article about, but I've now had some test games with the army (proxied of course) and can talk a little bit about how it runs. Now, the main point of the article was to let you know you can expect some hobby posts from me in the future, and also to hopefully get the community adding some ideas in regards to Karamazov conversions, however, I'm gonna talk about how the army plays on the table here, if you're interested, because an awful lot of people doubt the Draigowing. So, barring one seal-clubbing experience (team game where 2 players just fed the deathstar), the games I've had with the army have been pretty good. So far I haven't played Table Quarters (we play NOVA format at our local) just Objectives (Sieze Ground + NOVA format) and Kill Points, but on Objectives what tends to happen is my techmarine will reinforce a home ruin if he can, inside which a scoring vendread will stand, usually close to/on the objective. Then, the paladins will go for the middle objective (even if it's not technically in the "middle", there is almost always a "middle" objective) whilst any other scoring dreads I have will go for ones nearer my table edge. Occasionally the lone paladin deep strikes down onto an objective to cap it (he's taken 2 so far!). So, let's get a little bit more specific.


My last game with Draigowing. Kill Points primary. Objectives Secondary. Table Quarters Tertiary. Spearhead deployment. I got first. I took a quarter with a nice ruin in it, and my Techmarine got busy with that. I was able to give my Vendread and a pair of Psyfles scoring status. Due to me getting first, I decided against scout as I didn't want to advance too readily into his army. My 3 Psyfledreads reserved and Solodin deep struck. I was up against a Nilla marine army with (from memory), Lysander, a Chaplain, 6 TH/SS Terminators, 3 units of tactical marines with Melta + MM in rhinos, a small Devastator unit, and a 10 man unit in a Drop pod with melta + MM, along with a Land Raider Crusader. Finally there was a small Devastator unit (can't remember what they had, they were out of LoS for all the turns in the game bar one). So, a quick blow by blow:

GK Turn One: I move Draigo and his 12 cronies up to the centre piece of terrain, so they have LoS to a pair of dreadnoughts, but nothing else can see them (psycannons peeking round a corner). They open up on a dread and explode it, and my Psyfle opens up on the other one, immobilizing it (this will become a theme) and stunning it.

Imperial Fist Turn One: Stuff moves up, the crusader moves round the central terrain piece to obtain LoS to the Paladins. The 10 man unit in the drop pod comes down on the objective on my board edge, that's not in my quarter. Otherwise the rhinos move up to the other side of the big bit of terrain in the middle (outwith 12" of my Paladins). The Crusader takes a few potshots at the Paladins, doing nothing.

GK Turn 2: A scoring dread and the non scoring one came on (with help from communion) and solodin came down (heedless of communion, he has yet to roll lower than a 5 for reserves). My deathstar shimmied around to the other side of the central terrain (avoiding mass melta fire from rhinos and a charge from the terminators), so that they could just see the raiders, and the rhinos would need to move >6" to get LoS to them. My dreads came on so they could get flank shots at the rhinos. Solodin deep struck down next to an objective and run 1", just inside area terrain. Opening up I exploded a rhino (pinning the unit!) and immobilized another (2). The Land Raider got immobilized and stunned. .

Imperial Fist Turn 2: The terminators decided not to waste time, and made for the central terrain piece, staying outwith 12", and within counter-assault range of the tactical squads. Generally, he shimmied out of LoS with as much stuff as possible. His combined shooting resulted in I think a wound or 2 on the paladins, generally not much happened though. The dreadnought tried to kill off the solodin on the objective (easy KP, right?) but did no wounds. The immobilized rhino repaired itself.

Grey Knight Turn 3: Well, my other dread came in. The paladins walked closer to the raider. My dreads shimmied a little. Then Karamazov blew up the land raider (within 12"). The psyfledreads opened up with the least effective barrage I ever did see. 2 of them managed to re-immobilize the rhino they could see (argh! I immobilized so much stuff this game), and blew off it's stormbolter. The other one blew up the drop pod (the squad that had come out of it was miles from anything).


In a foight, these Dark Elder' 'av bin known 't kick with ther' legs
Imperial Fist Turn 3, and the rest of the game: Here, he made a huge mistake. Basically, he commited. Moving up to unleash a firestorm on the paladins, and also what was meant to be a charge from the terminators didn't work out. Basically in my turn 4 my paladins mulched one squad of tactical marines and consolidated backwards, and in turn 5 his terminators had needed to get a 6 then a 6 on difficult terrain to get the assault on my terminators, which they didn't manage. Then I multiassaulted a rhino, 10 tactical marines and the terminator unit, and rolled the LD2 psychotroke grenade. That swung the game totally my way, and the game ended turn 5. Of course, we had to have Draigo and Lysander finish their duel, which I can proudly say my Draigo (also known as Mister Bendy Sword and Russel Crowe) won, with a wound left!

So basically, the army plays very cagily. Realistically it's not exactly bad in the firepower department (whatever the paladins open up on they will kill, and there's 4 psyfledreads), I'm just scared of armies with things like 3 manticores/demolishers etc. The army is very fun to play though, and turns take about 5 minutes!

----->>>>So anyway, back to something resembling relevance, if you could please leave suggestions for a Karamazov conversion in the comments, I will love you long time <3

Comments (23)

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carldooley's avatar

carldooley · 710 weeks ago

conversion idea - eyeball the Privateer Press Battle Engines. I rather like Cygnar's. Consider putting a Sentinel cockpit on top of the quad legs and mount a Land Raider's Multimelta on both sides of the cockpit. Or, just get an old metal model.
1 reply · active 710 weeks ago
The battle engines are HUGE!

That'd be far too large. I'd like to be able to hide the unit behind some terrain every once and a while. :P

However, when I go back to Cygnar, I do entirely plan on getting a pair of Striders. ;)
maybe you could get a contemptor with MM, say his a ancient dread who gives you all the rules, works with the termies and dreads theme. Can put a dreadknights sword in his hand too, its a good size for him.
Since Karasmov's in an all-GK force, probably best to make him look like a Grey Knight. Maybe a Techmarine half-intergrated (torso/head/arms showing) into a Dreadnought body with Multi-meta/Power Weapon, some Grenade Launchers to represent all of Kara's 'nades and some scanning gear for the Orbital Strikes?
1 reply · active 710 weeks ago
Could be confusing when next to the regular Dreads, though. Maybe a guy in massive terminator armour?
Why not just try to find the older metal model. I have one, shelved now, from my Witchhunters.
I have a scratch built Karamazov I made out of a Black Reach Dreadnought's legs and multi melta, a big square base from fantasy, Cities of Death, Planetstrike Bastion, and IG heavy weapons bits, and a converted Confessor Kyrinov standing on top. I'm pretty happy with how he came out. I did post several pics of him in the BoLS Gallery several months ago if you wanna check him out. In the Lounge and Gallery on BoLS my name is Root. He should be in the Inquisition section if I recall correctly.
I've had a Lysander vs. Draigo moment too. Draigo won the day, also with only one wound left =)

For conversion ideas, I'm thinking start with either a Venerable Dreadnought and build the throne thingy at the front, or start with a Nemesis Dreadknight. Maybe the NDK might be too big though? Too easy to draw LoS to.
darkstarr88's avatar

darkstarr88 · 710 weeks ago

why not convert a dreadknight to represent karamov with some easy conversion work you should be able to convert one of the wrists to mount the multi melta and comes with a pretty big sword, it also has the added benefit of having a paladin inside so your all greyknights
1 reply · active 710 weeks ago
The Dreadknight is huge - the Throne of Judgement only really comes up to its waist. Plus, Kara's an independent character, and having one of those giant oval bases joined into a unit of 40mm would be pretty weird.
I've had the idea rattling around in my head to do a Dreadknight Karamazov, replacing the terminator and stupid harness with his main throne from the old model. Add on a few bits and gubbins, and you have a super inquisitor with multimelta and uber sword!
I think that the dreadnought idea is going to give you the most ease-of-conversion and the best result. I would start with the legs, baseplate, and back of the ven dread for the main structure. A dais/throne would have to be bulked out in plasticard, and if you could find an old seated Calgar you'd be in business. Alternately, the only other seated bitz would probably have to come from an attack bike gunner. Have a couple of henchman on platforms next to him (MM Servitor, Inq. Dialogus) and there you are.
1 reply · active 710 weeks ago
Now that I think on it, I'd start with a pair of robed legs from the Ravenwing sprue. That would look spiffy.
Mr. Potato Head Contemptormazov!
magilerski's avatar

magilerski · 710 weeks ago

Think about Ork Deff Dread - the body/legs are easy to de-ork/imperialize, is different than SM dreadnought, smaller than DreadKnigth and plastic!
I really don't think Draigowing run as a full-on rock army is any good. For one, you have very little threat potential- I mean, you have, what, two units that are actually dangerous to anyone, and only that if you split the Pally squad up? Dark Eldar will laugh you off the table because you literally cannot kill them fast enough for them to care; other MSU armies will be similar.

Running Karamazov is bad because he can only soak three wounds before being effectively useless- a Librarian is cheaper and will allow you to shrug off more wounds. Hell, even just bringing four more Paladins is better. His pass-or-fail ability is nice, but you'd be better served not concentrating absolutely all your resources into a single unit; Tank Shocks will be annoying, but with Ld10 it won't be a major issue. Weaken Resolve has to go through Reinforced Aegis (so testing on Ld5) AND survive your Hood, making it effectively a non-concern. Grey Knights do not lack for psychic defenses.

I think the Techmarine only exacerbates your problem- what is it you're running into that a squad of Paladins + Draigo/Libby can't handle? You don't need a win-more button, you need additional options for movement, deployment, and threatening the enemy.

(If you're not looking for critique... umm, sorry. I think there is a lot to be improved about the list, though.)
5 replies · active 710 weeks ago
Not particularly, but hey. I'm going to test the Libby, don't worry, but bear in mind abuse, Kara is T5. This is a big deal, means I'm no longer worried about S8, whereas I very much am with a Librarian. [=
Also how will a Librarian allow me to shrug off more wounds? :S
And finally, without Kara, I'm still very much taking that risk. I mean, sure, it's unlikely, but it's definitely doable. And Weaken Resolve is range 36", so the IG player, if he's worth his salt, wont be within 24" to be hooded.
3+ cover over 4+ means you're taking fewer casualties. If you run the math fairly quick, that plus points saved means you actually are better off with a Libby than Kara in a big unit.

T5 is nice, but again: you're paying 200pts for the privilege, and he only soaks three extra hits. Three Paladins would do the same and add more CC/firepower.

If an IG is able to hold 36" away from your Pallystar, you will lose, Weaken Resolve or not. Aegis still works, so get that ass into midfield and bust their ride.

You also seriously need some Halberds in there. I6 is one of the things that make them scary, because at I4 you can be overwhelmed by a number of things.
It's really hard to work out if the 3+ saves me more than the extra T5. For example, against Missiles it's useless. Points saved? GK Librarians are ~170, and I'm giving mine a Warding Stave a la Blackmoor.

Yes this is true, sadly I can't have a 13 man squad >: :P

Yup, but I meant just the Psyker unit, not the whole army.

What'll overwhelm them without halberds?

*Annoyingly, looks like I'm going to have to test the Librarian first, as I can't find a nice Kara model. *sigh* If I ever fail a LD test I'm running straight to the big K though.
When somebody talks in 3rd person... their head has finally reached new limits!

If I'm honest.. I prefer MVB's erlier variant with 2 x psyfledreads, 2 x MM dreads.

In objective missions you need to table your opponent or you're done for. Also... against anything fast and not made of paper... you may struggle.
Antebellum's avatar

Antebellum · 710 weeks ago

I played against Draigowing this past weekend at a 1750 tourney. Prettymuch your exact list without Kara and the venerable, and with a librarian. He has about 6-7 unique pallys, some with halberds. I played Blood Hammer.

Terrain was horrible and I set up badly with a Dawn of War, capture and control. The game was only fun because the opponent was nice. Playing against the army is a pain in the ass and boring. Even with better mobility, some luck on his part had me all but destroyed by turn 5 with no chance to get near his objective.

He eventually won the tournament.

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