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Thursday, April 26, 2012

Eldar Codex Review Part 20: Pathfinders & Rangers

CMON

It's been a while since I've touched this project...so I'm back to finish it off ^^. We've got mostly the Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices and then anything people want reviewed from Forgeworld books (which have not already been done) I'll lend a post to as well. Before we get to that though, let's finish off the Troops with the last choice not covered - Rangers.

The Review -

Rangers, and Pathfinders, are essentially the Scouts of the Eldar army. They have the usual assortment of infiltrate, stealth, move through cover and scout special rules which makes them great at finding locations outside of your usual deployment zone, sitting in cover and being hard to remove. Because they are Troops this also means they are scoring and with the ability to go to ground for an effective 2+ cover save, they aren't exactly easy to remove considering their points cost. Beware of flamers though!


Beyond this, the application of Rangers are limited however. They do have BS4 thankfully, so they are actually capable of reliably putting some hits down unlike Space Marine Scouts but they cannot carry any other weapon choices and aren't exactly super cheap and if anything can bypass their cover save, Rangers are very fragile. Their gun is quite nice though - the usual Sniper Rifle but with AP1 options. This makes them decently usable against anything - they can potentially pin infantry, hurt tougher targets and Rend against tanks (where the AP1 can come in quite handy). They aren't going to do any of this super reliably though, particularly for their cost. In this regard Rangers are basically a scoring paperweight which are quite durable for their points unless the right weapon type is brought against them. They can contribute to the game but shouldn't be relied upon.

The Pathfinder upgrade is certainly a useful option. At five points a model it makes them quite a bit more expensive but allows the unit to have a 2+ cover save without going to ground - useful as you will continually have movement and shooting options. Furthermore, they get the AP1 bonus twice as often as your regular Rangers (i.e. 50% of their hits) - nice but not a deal breaker.

Potential Uses -

Rangers really have two uses - cheap scoring unit and disruption. With their ability to infiltrate and gain an excellent cover save, Rangers/Pathfinders make an effective backfield scoring unit which your opponent has to dedicate an inordinate amount of firepower to take down (unless he can bring the right weapons to bear). Infiltrate allows them to deploy outside of the deployment zone and take objectives earlier in the game and force the opponent to deal with them in some way or allow the Eldar army a free objective. In non-objective games the ability to infiltrate+scout a speed bump/bubble-wrap unit further up the board or in a flanking position holds a lot of tactical advantages.

Remember, their damage output is not something to be relied upon but it can be useful - they can shoot at nearly anything and have a potential effect. If the enemy gets close to them though, expect to die. They are terrible in combat and short-ranged firepower can overcome their 2+ cover save pretty easily due to T3.

Their main source of competition here is the Guardian Defenders as backfield scorers. Guardians do have access to a heavy weapon, more reliable Leadership with an Embolden Warlock, more bodies and a lot more firepower if the enemy gets close but are only getting the bog standard 4+ cover save (3+ when going to ground). Both of these options have their strengths and weaknesses though with 2+ cover save potential and the ability to Infiltrate into more advantageous positions, I would generally give the slight nod to Rangers if looking to take such a unit.

Potential Changes -

Either a price drop or increase in abilities - perhaps both. Rangers being able to pick where their wounds go would be excellent but I'd be capping this unit at a maximum of five if this were the case. The ability to take a lot of models with this ability would just be silly but as a bit of utility and added bonus against infantry for small squads, it would work wonders to increasing their damage and disruption output. Improving the Pathfinder statline as well wouldn't be a bad thing, BS5 would make perfect sense.

A case could also be made for simply removing the two distinct unit concepts and mesh them together - higher overall cost but the unit is always going to be X good. Making their guns always AP1 could help remove the randomness from the unit as well (but still keep the Rending so they aren't super reliable at dropping tanks).

Conclusion -

Rangers & Pathfinders don't offer much offensively - they can and will do some damage to nearly any unit the game over six turns but aren't going to be relied upon to destroy things left right and centre. They have too many dice rolls to get through to punch through tanks reliably and not enough shots to drop infantry units in a timely manner. They are however quite durable for their points which makes them great at sitting on objectives or disrupting the opponent with non-normal deployment options where they can pepper the enemy with their paltry firepower but help the Eldar army achieve mission objectives.

Improving their firepower or abilities to impact the enemy are ways to make Rangers see more use outside of a pretty paperweight. Improving their reliability against infantry & tanks with improvements to ballistic skill and continuous AP1 are steps in the right direction but further changes wouldn't be amiss. These could move them more into mainstream units rather than a cheap tag-along as an extra scoring option.

Comments (17)

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There is also the factor that Guardians can move and still fire 4 S6 shots if needed, which Rangers can't. Guardians also have the equivalent of a powerfist if a walker/tank starts heading towards them, Rangers don't.

On the other hand, Rangers become hugely more effective if you're rolling with a Doom caster, and Guardians don't.

Just some other pros/cons that weren't explicitly mentioned. :)

For potential changes I would like to see some actual wargear options - things like homing beacons, anti-Deepstrike/infiltrate stuff a la Servo Skulls, maybe a heavy weapon of some kind,some reserve manipulation (penalties to the enemy especially) or so on. Something other than "X men with Sniper Rifles who sit very still and shoot with their Sniper Rifles all game" if you see what I mean.
Maybe have only the Pathfinders have the ability to allocate wounds according to their player would be fair (like Tellion or the Vindicare Assassin) since they are more dedicated to the Path of the Outcast.

Perhaps for wargear - options for stuff like haywire grenades, a webway locator or even the option to take a relentless shuriken cannon (like in Dawn of War II: Retribution with Ronahim - one per unit of course). Also, perhaps a minor hero or upgrade character to represent an Alaitoc character would be suitable, too.
Rending is AP 2.
1 reply · active 691 weeks ago
Pentitent's avatar

Pentitent · 691 weeks ago

and rangers/pf have an ap1 on blah rule
For less than 25 points per model, you want a BS5 unit with a 36" AP1 rending sniper weapon and a 2+ cover save? Seriously?
7 replies · active 690 weeks ago
For something that dies on 3+ to flamers with no save of any kind, and gets rolled by anything that can kill 10 Guardians in combat?

Sure, why not?
willydstyle's avatar

willydstyle · 691 weeks ago

You say that like 25 points per model is not a lot. Here's a clue: it's a fucking lot of points for a 1-wound T3 guy.
For a one-wound, T3 guy? Sure, it's an unconscionable amount of points. But for a BS5 scoring model with a 2+ cover save armed with a gun that makes Terminators as survivable as Guardsmen? Suddenly it looks less like highway robbery, and more like a steal, especially around that so-sweet 1500-2000 range. And once you factor it into the larger Eldar codex, you're pretty much guaranteed to have that BS5 guy with a 2+ cover save armed with an AP1 pinning rending sniper weapon hanging out with a Farseer, who is either making sure that every last shot wounds, or letting you reroll every failed cover save. Or both, if the Farseer has spirit stones.

Are there counters? Sure, as Sethis_II mentioned, you can go at them with flamers, or charge them in close combat. But aside from some very specific, very grossly overpowered units, what doesn't have some kind of weakness? And what strong shooting unit isn't weak against close combat, anyway? And just for contrast, how many units in the entire game are BS5? And of those incredibly rare units, how many have 36" AP1 sniper weapons? For all that they're expensive, and yes, twenty-five points per model (or twenty-four technically, and the article also suggested a points drop) is expensive, their performance on the tabletop would make them possibly the shooting unit in the game.
First of all, please stop it with the farseer support.. He is not included in the pathfinder squad's price so let's keep the fella out of this story. :)
Second, have in mind that the "Potential changes" would kick in in 6th ed with nerfed cover saves.. So don't worry about 2+ saves.
Third, a unit of 5 pahfinders (BS5, AP1) would deliver around 2 wounds to your precious termies and you still got a chance to take your inv. saves.. I don't think you should consider that to be such a dire threat..
I would be more concerned about MCs..

I see you're also emphasizing pinning and rending in this case.. Hey, it's AP1 always wounding on 4+ anyway so the only benefit of rending now would be the extra d3 for damaging vechicles.. (on average a glancing hit against a rhino only IF you get lucky and roll a 6 on the penetration roll)...

And you believe that might be the best shooting unit in the game..? Seriously?

Oh and I almost forgot, sorry but I don't take pinning that seriously.. I've been using pathfinders a lot, ever since i picked up eldar a few years ago.. Would you believe me if I told you that I have NEVER ever managed to pin a unit down with them.. :) Call me unlucky or whatever, but I do think of pinning as a joke lately.. But maybe that's just me :) )
You can't talk about changes to a unit without putting them in the wider context of the army list; otherwise, it's pretty much impossible to explain why a change is beneficial or harmful. In this case, the upgrades to the Pathfinders, to make them an extremely strong shooting unit, would go hand-in-hand with the Farseer's abilities in terms of army creation. Just because the Farseer isn't included in the unit's cost, and nowhere did I claim it was, doesn't mean that in evaluating the potential changes to the unit it can just be ignored. Trying to do otherwise just gets you the Grey Knights codex; a book in which every individual unit is pretty awesome, and the end result is therefore an annoyingly over-powered army list once all the pieces are combined into a coherent whole.

As for the capabilities of the unit itself? Yes, I still maintain that with those upgrades they would be, point for point, the best shooting unit going. There are only a handful of models in 40K that are BS5 or higher. To the best of my knowledge, none of them can be taken in multi-model units, none of them have weapons with more than, say, two shots, and none of them are less than a hundred points. As for the weapon in the hands of these new Pathfinders, remember that AP1 not only penetrates all armour, but also disallows FNP saves. Buying a Blood Angel with a meltagun is 95 points, or a plasma gun for 100; artificially broken down, it's 23 for the meltagun and 28 for the plasmagun, with significantly shorter range and a risk that the latter gun will explode. A Chaos Space Marine with a plasmagun is 30 points; an IG Veteran with a plasma gun is 22; a Grey Hunter is 25. A weapon that ignores armour saves and FNP is expensive, even when it's in the hands of a BS4 model with a 3+ save. Now, yes, those other units will often wound on better than 4+, but they also have shorter ranges, and one out of every six plasma gun shots will kill the shooter. And of course, you can't get whole units of these plasma gunners. Well, aside from Tau XV8s, where a BS3 unit with a plasma gun and the minimal additional upgrades will run you 53 points, and you can only get three of them.

Now, I will admit my claim that they'd be the shooting unit was hyperbolic. It's also in need of clarification, even from my perspective; that is, I believe that with these changes, point for point, Pathfinders would be the best anti-MEq/TEq shooting unit in the game. They'd also find good targets in nearly every game; the only times they'd underperform would be against Guard armies, and perhaps certain Ork and Tyranid horde-style builds. The combination of range, shooting skill and armour-negating firepower, coupled with their own relative invulnerability to return shooting, would give them nearly unrivaled utility in their particular niche.

As for pinning, while it's not what it could be, the fact that you have never pinned a single unit says more about your dice than the rule. My Tau cadre's gundrones rarely go more than two games without pinning something.
Of course you should have the rest of the army in mind but a lot of people do it wrong in the case of the farseer..
I'm not sure if you ever played eldar, but very often players know what a farseer does, but don't know how a farseer actually plays..
You can not design (or in this case simply take out your revision suggestions) while thinking "OK, because units of this army might benefit from farseer support they would end up broken; so lets simply nerf them down to the level they become mediocre without, and good with the farseer..".
Actually, that might even work out if the farseer was able to buff the whole army at the same time which is not the case.
Why do you think someone is going to attach the farseer to the pathfinders only..? He also needs the farseer to help out some banshees for example because they are unable to wound anything, or to guide a falcon which can't hit shit, or in the end just to fortune something because they are poor squishy little eldar.. If you want to reliably buff a unit throughout the whole game you must stay attached to them. It's not as easy having a farseer in the army as you might think.. You have to predict the outcome of your and the outcome of your opponents whole turn so you can position him correctly.. They are not very flexible and can not swoosh to the other side of the board and help out if something has gone unexpectedly wrong cause you cast powers on the beginning of the turn and their range is really short.
In other words, it happens OFTEN that some units need a farseer buff really bad but simply can't get it..
Not to mention there are only 2 powers per turn on average.
I don't know if you're starting to understand what I'm trying to say?
When reviewing a unit it's not rare to hear silly arguments like "But this is so boken with a farseer!! If they can reroll to hit, reroll to wound, AND reroll their saves that is sooo OP!!!"
Well guess what? That's not gonna happen.. :) In a 1500 game there are at least 10 units which all need buffing but you only have those 2 powers. Which also might not go off at all due to psychic hoods, failing psychic checks or any other psychic disruption.. Do you understand now why you can not take the farseer into account here?
In the end that is eldars HQ for 150+ points.. Where others may have beatsticks which destroy stuff for the same price, eldar have the opportunity to make mostly just one unit supergood (or simply good) for a turn. It is a virtue of the farseer and should not impact the potential of other units performances.. All units should be able to perform correctly solely!
Now back to the pathfinders.. As you see right now they are not reliable.. They can shoot at a lot of stuff and might do some nice damage but they also might not.. They rely too much on the dice and are simply are not sure what to shoot at.
I understand the AP1 suggestion by kirby because that would give them a more stable role in the game -> focus on heavy armored infantry from afar.. After all eldar units should be specialized and very good against some kind of enemy they were designed for..
About the BS5, okay i do agree that such skills are "exotic" and should be given to special individuals only..
But this way, a full 240 point - 10man squad of pathfinders with BS4 could deliver only 3.33 wounds on average...
> In this case, the upgrades to the Pathfinders, to make them an extremely strong shooting unit, would go hand-in-hand with the Farseer's abilities in terms of army creation.

Well, every unit goes hand-in-hand with a Farseer. Flat. I can't think of a unit that DOESN'T love to reroll it's cover/armour/wound rolls. I appreciate your point, but the whole IDEA of a Farseer is that he is a force multiplier, and should work with any unit. You're using one of your two HQ slots and ~140pts to increase the effectiveness of a single unit and possibly another unit within 6". Whether you believe that to be an efficient use of points or FOC slots is up to you, but it doesn't have any bearing on Rangers.

> the Grey Knights codex; a book in which every individual unit is pretty awesome, and the end result is therefore an annoyingly over-powered army list once all the pieces are combined into a coherent whole

The Grey Knights codex is broken mainly by a single model: Coteaz. The inclusion of 12pt scoring units in a supposedly "elite" army is what makes them so good. If every list without Draigo or Crowe had to spend ~400pts on Strike Squads as they were meant to, the book as a whole would function much more in line with everyone else. But I digress.

> Yes, I still maintain that with those upgrades they would be, point for point, the best shooting unit going.

Perhaps you should add the caveat of "non-vehicle" to that. Even then, things like Sternguard, Hive Guard and so on compete just fine with them.

> Buying a Blood Angel...

Cross codex comparisons are not the entire story, and are borderline useless when comparing units that don't even do the same job. If you want to compare units, do it on a like-for-like basis, so Rangers to Sniper Scouts, Banshees to DCA, Wraithlords to Dreadnoughts etc. Comparing Pathfinders to a CCS with 4x Plasma Guns is just misleading.

> I believe that with these changes, point for point, Pathfinders would be the best anti-MEq/TEq shooting unit in the game.

10 Pathfinders at 25pts each = 250pts

Shooting at MEQ in cover: 2 kills per turn.
Shooting at TH/SS Termies: 1.4 kills per turn.
Shooting at a Rhino in cover: 7.5% chance each for a wreck or explode, so 15% chance to kill it.

Call me crazy, but I can think of a heck of a lot of units who can shoot better than that. Leaving aside things like survivability, scoring, maneuverability etc. Hell, Dire Avengers shoot better than that, point for point.

> The combination of range, shooting skill and armour-negating firepower, coupled with their own relative invulnerability to return shooting, would give them nearly unrivaled utility in their particular niche.

So you don't shoot something that is immune to shooting. Instead you use guns that ignore cover, assaults, template weapons or tank shocks to get rid of them. Wraithlords being immune to bolters doesn't make them OP, it just means you use a tool that isn't a boltgun to kill them. Sure, they might be a nice backfield scoring unit, but then so is a Grey Hunter squad in a Las/Plas Razorback. So is a blob squad. So are free termagants that go to ground every turn. Every army has a unit to fulfill that role, the fact that it can kill 2-4 Marines per turn at the same time is hardly amazing.
Being able to allocate wounds may be overly effective if it is for a whole squad but if there were a sergeant equivalent then allowing it to allocate it's hit to a specific model would not be unreasonable.

Also if there were a special upgrade character then a rule to disrupt reserves would be fitting i think; not something as complex as there was in craftworld eldar but a simple minus one to reserve rolls for having purchased the character. This would allow eldar similar abilities to those available to imperial guard to affect reserves through purchasing models.
1 reply · active 691 weeks ago
Both good ideas.
carldooley's avatar

carldooley · 691 weeks ago

I'm surprised that people overlook the pistols. sure they don't have the same punch as the rifles, but they can still move and shoot with their pistols.

The best way for them to allocate wounds would be occasionally - a trigger whether an ability that triggers on a passed Ld check or enemy proximity (kicking them in the teeth before dying in combat).
Nice review. I think Rangers have always decently fulfilled a sort of niche (and thematic) role, but they were clearly never meant to be a powerhouse unit- still, they could stand being a bit cheaper! I do always like bringing a unit along- resilient and flexible deployability wedded to a modest but useful damage output.
Thought:

Why not turn Rangers into more than glorified rank-and-file snipers? There are plenty of potential options for how to make them more entertaining:
1) Shoot-and-Scoot: Rangers may choose to make a 6" move in the assault phase, even after they use their sniper rifles.
2) Special weapons: Pathfinders can carry more, but rangers can bring specialist gear: A small squad, more fragile-and-expensive but forward-deploying and carrying optional flamers, Eldar Grenade Launchers (with tanglefoot/hallucinogenic/etc options), or the equivalent of an Eldar democharge...

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