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| Black Diamond Relic Knight |
Greetings everyone! It's been a while but it's Whitestar333 here to talk to you about an interesting new miniatures game coming down the pipes called Relic Knights. Normally I'm all about talking about Warmachine/Hordes but this game has caught my eye in a big way and I figured I'd share it with you in case it strikes your interest too. Spattered throughout this article I'll be including pictures of the Relic Knights for each of the 6 factions (except for the Noh Empire, since their Relic Knight is currently unavailable except at conventions).
What makes Relic Knights so special right now is that there has been an existing model line for well over a year without any real game rules except for what has been demo'd at conventions. The models are really beautiful (although you can judge for yourself) but without any rules, I wasn't really interested in collecting them. With Cool Mini or Not recently having successful Kickstarter campaigns, they've started one for Relic Knights to turn it into a full-fledged miniatures game!
For those who are unaware of how Kickstarter works, let me quickly explain. Think of Kickstarter as a platform for investment. Except, instead of financial dividends (like GW does as a publicly-traded company), you get products and items in exchange for your investment. Each Kickstarter project is different in both the amounts of their goals and the rewards, which can be found on the right of each Kickstarter page. For Relic Knights, for example, they made a handy info-graphic for those who choose the "Savior" reward level of $100.
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| It can sometimes get complicated... |
Using Kickstarter has become quite fashionable in the miniatures gaming community because it allows smaller game companies to skip the awkward growing pains of transitioning from metal into resin or plastic over time and instead get an injection of funds to go directly towards kickstarting (see what I did there) the miniatures production so they can hit the ground running. It's a great concept for these smaller companies which can't compete with the plastic production that GW is capable of and plastic helps keep manufacturing costs down.
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| Cerci Speed Circuit Relic Knight |
Now here's the problem with Kickstarter: while you make your investment as soon as the Kickstarter has ended, you probably won't get the goods for your investment until the future. I recently participated in the Sedition Wars Kickstarter, for example, and I'm not expecting to get everything until March 2013. Relic Knights is going to be the same way, and that's because the purpose of these Kickstarters is to get everything in plastic, and that will take time before they can pump out the line. The good news is that you get a lot for your investment.
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| Shattered Sword Paladins Relic Knight |
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| A typical esper card. The top symbol is Law esper and the bottom is Life esper. |
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| Noh Empire Questing Knight (slightly different from a Relic Knight) |
What I like about this approach over dice is that while Warmachine/Hordes mitigates bad dice luck a bit with the 2d6 mechanic they use, just because you roll snake-eyes doesn't reduce the probability your next roll won't also be snake-eyes. It's the same in 40k, right? Just because you roll badly with your dice early in the game doesn't mean they'll necessarily get better at the end. With cards, however, if you have a bad hand of cards, you know that there is a finite probability that you will not draw a crappy hand next activation, at least until the deck gets shuffled again. I like this kind of luck mitigation because I get really frustrated when my tactics are sound but random probability foils my attempts.
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| Doctrine Relic Knight |
Lastly, one thing that's really great about this game is that it's an 'alternating activation' game, meaning that you activate one model and then your opponent gets to activate one of theirs. What's neat about this approach too is that Relic Knights has a "ready queue" where you line up who's activating next. Think of it a bit like the latest JRPGs like the latest Final Fantasy games. What's so interesting about this, however, is that if your back is against the ropes and you find yourself out-numbered, you get to activate your models more often, meaning you still have a chance at achieving a scenario victory. It's an elegant 'comeback' mechanic that's really great and one thing I always look for in a miniatures game (like the 'casterkill' mechanic in Warmachine/Hordes).
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| Star Nebula Corsairs Relic Knight |
I encourage you again to check out the rules because the game is surprisingly simple to learn and understand and it seems like it could be a fun game for a little investment. The bad news is, of course, that if you invest in the Kickstarter you'll have to wait a while before you get your awesome product. If you can't wait, though, you can still find many of the [metal] models available at online retailers and you can take the downloaded copy of the rules and the cards and start playing right away!
Here's where you can find the rules, faction cards, and esper deck:
http://rk.sodapopminiatures.com/
If you're patient and have 90 minutes available, there's even a video demo of the game that's very thorough and you can see exactly how the game works and start to see some of the rules interactions first-hand:
[Comments Added:]
I know a lot of you have commented on the ridiculousness of the female models but I want to point out a couple of things.
1) Anime draws a HUGE female following. Any of you who've been to an anime convention will know what I'm talking about. Chicks love anime far more than they like wargaming and there are far more females cosplaying (dressing in costume) their favorite anime characters than are men. In my experience, women are far more accepting of the anime form than you think (they are, of course, cartoons).
2) Soda Pop Minis is well-known among their following to not take their games too seriously. Super Dungeon Explore has been a huge hit among board game enthusiasts, miniatures gamers, and anime fans alike. The company knowingly follows the style of anime all the way down to the way they make their female sculpts and they're almost satirical about it. If you're still not comfortable with the sculpts of women and that's a big deal to you, I recommend looking at Warmachine/Hordes for more realistic portrayals of women.
3) There are some women out there with ridiculous proportions, as evidenced by the Soda Pop Girl hired to run demos at GenCon this year. She was dressed up as the Rin Farrah model. Here's the original by soda pop and the Soda Pop Girl side by side for comparisson:
Logging you in...
Kirby 118p · 657 weeks ago
aurenian · 657 weeks ago
However I don't see the point of riding on a huge robot that doesn't protect you from harm :P Seriously unless they have some energy shields or something those lovely ladies are going to cop a sniper's bullet.
whitestar333 61p · 657 weeks ago
Aurenian 57p · 656 weeks ago
whitestar333 61p · 656 weeks ago
Relic Knights almost reminds me of Full Metal Panic! in style and sense of humor.
Sethis_II 87p · 656 weeks ago
whitestar333 61p · 656 weeks ago
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
Dawfydd · 656 weeks ago
Marko · 656 weeks ago
itcamefromthedeep · 656 weeks ago
The card mechanic may be your cup of tea, but not mine. I'm no fan of the gambler's fallacy, and don't actually wish it were true. I prefer that little bit of immersion offered by random results over a mechanic to mitigate bad luck.
The minis look to be finely detailed, but the objectification of women there bugs me. Regardless of whether or not it’s a staple of anime, I wouldn’t be happy showing that kind of mini off to strangers. I’d like minis gaming to be more welcoming to women, and this is a step sideways from the GW stance of often simply not including women.
whitestar333 61p · 656 weeks ago
Regarding the card mechanic, it's actually quite elegant and makes a lot of sense in the context of the game. You pay for abilities using the power cards in your hand, but each action allows your character to draw additional cards to "boost" the action further, should you have the cards or if the situation calls for it. It gives you great control while still being random (you might not get the cards you want). Additionally, the defending player gets to draw cards too to see if they can power any of their defensive abilities. At the end of each activation you can also chuck some cards away and draw back up to your normal hand size. It's simple, offers you control over your actions, while still leaving the uncertainty that dice provide - minus the frustration of rolling poorly over and over again. At least with the cards, if you get a bad hand, you know that you'll have a better hand next time. You have no such guarantee with dice.
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
(Understand, I'm not saying this sort of thing should be banned or is horribly and immortal or whatnot, I just think it's in poor taste and potentially detracts from the game. I mean, they're not exactly the sort of models that are gonna bring the hobby into the mainstream or help end the rather brutal gender gap it suffers from.)
If they were simply playing out anime archetypes as a joke, they would have way more boyish heroes and lolis in the cast, but I don't think I saw a single one of the latter; in fact, I don't think there were ANY female models that weren't flashing some pretty extreme "I lost 80% of my outfit" cleavage.
Also, I hadn't noticed before but every single one of the Special Edition Miniatures is a pretty clear ripoff/palette swap of an anime character.
Candy = Chun Li (with fox-Ryu in tow)
Fiametta = Sailor Pluto
Marie Claude = blargh, name escapes me, but space anime thingy
Zineda = Morrigan
Ironchef = Solid Snake (lol)
Rinn = Youko
Isabeau = Faye Valentine
Malifaux uses a similar card-based mechanic, which can be pretty interesting. I might have to look up the rules for the game to see what they did with it, but I really doubt I'm gonna be happy with the minis involved. :\
whitestar333 61p · 656 weeks ago
The special characters you're referring to are "cosplay" versions of the characters, so they're supposed to be dressed-up as common anime characters. That's the fun of it! It's also cool because the cosplay versions will play for other factions and have slightly different rules (i.e. different abilities).
Malifaux is slightly different because they use a standard 52-card deck with jokers and suits, and you are always flipping cards from the deck with the occasional option to 'cheat' from your hand. Each turn you only get the cards in your hand until they run out or special effects let you draw extra cards.
The difference here is that you draw/discard so that you have 5 cards in your hand at the end of each activation (there also isn't a "turn"). Also, as you make attacks or defend against attacks, you get a chance to draw cards to fuel either boosts or pay for defensive abilities. What this means is that you run through your deck of cards faster, you have greater choice of cards in your hand, and there's a little more control in predictability (I have the option to get rid of my entire hand if my model doesn't act at all, and they get some extra energy I can spend in the future). It might seem similar to Malifaux at first but it allows far more control in reality. I recommend watching the demo game to see it in action. It's a long video but basically explains everything in the game.
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
>The special characters you're referring to are "cosplay" versions of the characters, so they're supposed to be dressed-up as common anime characters. That's the fun of it!
See, and that part doesn't bother me- the character designs there are all true to the originals in most details and are pretty clearly not supposed to be taken seriously. But the other female models really feel like they are just "ha ha we have crazy almost-naked women isn't that crazy and funny (btw tits)"; it may not be grimdark, but that doesn't automatically make it parody, either.
I just watched over the intro video; it's certainly interesting, although I'm not sure whether it's strictly better or worse than other card-based or dice-based systems; it prevents "I can't roll anything but ones" issues, but brings others of its own (like card-counting) to the game. It definitely does give the game a different feel, though, and I can respect that.
Alastores · 656 weeks ago
I used to run an anime society when I was a student.
We had girls - straight ones - asking for the Ecchi. (Dears came up a few times)
Obviously, personal experience is only that, but I DID run a society with about 300 total members over those years...and it was ALWAYS the girls who asked us to show the softcore porn.
malko · 656 weeks ago
i find the disliking of the female form to be sexism at its most oppressive.
real men don't look like space marines
and real women don't look like anime chicks
and real robots don't look like mecha
but these are imaginary super warriors.
none of the women that i know who could get into minis
would like to be represented by drab, sexless, puritan, 'realistic', female minis.
in fact they would be insulted by the idea that they would identify only with the female figures.
they are more likely to choose a hulking chaos dreadnought
or an arrogant elven king.
female characters in rpgs and games are often played by men,
imagining the kind of women that they would be if they were super-heroines
and men choose to be sexy and strong
there's nothing sexist about the women that men pretend to be,
unafraid of society's controlling gaze, negative comments or the violent assaults of the real world's monsters.
here's to pagan acceptance of the body! :)
i do, however, agree about the cards vs dice point,
i'm not sure i'd like to have my famously bad dice-luck ironed out...
whitestar333 61p · 656 weeks ago
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
If it's a parody, it's not a very good one.
>No one seemed to complain too loudly about Tifa's ridiculous proportions in Final Fantasy 7.
Uh... yes they did.
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
>and real women don't look like anime chicks
Right, but both Space Marines and pinup models are playing directly to male sexual ideals, which is what the problem is. It's not "omg we cant show the female body that is NAUGHTY and BAD," it's a matter of "every female character must be a sex symbol in addition to whatever else they are."
There's a world of difference between showing the human body- whether accurately or stylistically, the difference is actually irrelevant- and hiding behind artistic nudity/semi-nudity as an excuse to titilate.
malko · 656 weeks ago
if you count the topless characters up
then way more of them are male.
female flesh, and especially nipples,
are singled out for identification as titillation,
just because it is female.
if all nudity is sexual
then there are more sexualised male figures out there.
if only human female nudity is sexual,
then that is a fairly sexist and demeaning opinion.
i'm going to be quiet about this pretty soon
but i hear a lot about false-feminism, infantilising and equal nudity rights
from my female friends and i'm just trying to represent them :)
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
Not all nudity is equal- if you've spent any time studying human culture I'm sure you realize that. Female secondary sexual characteristics are different from male ones, so I can't imagine why you would try to equate them.
Again- this isn't about nudity, it's about sexualization. They aren't the same thing.
itcamefromthedeep · 656 weeks ago
http://www.ring-tail.com/shop/7923.jpg
This piece strikes me as sexual harassment in diorama form. I’m not comfortable with that. Honestly, no matter how sexually liberated Cecelia may be, the blushing in the illustration shows that she clearly didn’t welcome getting pinched or groped or whatever the creepy old guy Togan is doing. The idea that she’s an assistant of his and that he’s using that power to get away with this sort of thing is disturbing. I prefer my violence to be accompanied by the intimation that it’s a bad thing, and when I see sexual misconduct I prefer to have it noted as unacceptable.
Pieces like a lot of Privateer’s women or the women in the GW Eldar and Dark Eldar range show plenty of form-fitting, even sexualized content. However, even the explicitly sexualized Daemonettes sculpted by Felix Paniagua have a sense of class to them. It’s not nudity or sexuality that bugs me. The C’tan models are nude or mostly-nude in such a way that would presumably be “hot” --- but there’s dignity to it. If they were, perhaps, hip-thrusting or grabbing their crotch then you’d hear about it from me.
Princess Malya on the other hand just looks to be posed as if she’s preparing to be mounted. I’d call it the difference between the genre occupied by Michaelangelo’s David and a porn shoot. Relic Knight’s women appear to be designed and posed for the latter.
Having said all that, the women who play 40k still lean toward bondage space-nuns, and a few female members here appear to like (or not mind) Relic Knight’s portrayal of women. While some testimony here offers some clues, I would like to better understand why this is the case.
On a related note, I don’t understand why Isabella von Carstein goes to war wearing nothing but lace on her crotch. That also bugs me.
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
Scuzgob 96p · 656 weeks ago
most female players i know mostly play tyranids and dark eldar, but we dont see many SoB players at all, for well known reasons
as for Isabella, she's a near immortal crazy vampire lady aristocrat, wearing proper armour would be "unseemly"
Alastores · 656 weeks ago
Very dodgy.
Scuzgob 96p · 656 weeks ago
whitestar333 61p · 656 weeks ago
Scuzgob 96p · 656 weeks ago
thanks for sharing the game though, i'd been interested in the rules.
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
SaintBeerrun · 656 weeks ago
Why do I feel so weird saying that. Me so confused. Still, I look forward to any articles on it as I do enjoy broadening my horizons and knowledge of things.
(DISCLAIMER: There's nothing wrong with anime, desk candy, or any related materials or matters. Everyone has different tastes and different levels of what is and is not acceptable, and that's perfectly fine. This is just my opinion as one lone turbonerd.)
whitestar333 61p · 656 weeks ago
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
(Of course there is plenty of that sort of thing around and even good artists and studios can fall prey to the tendency [viz. the "Gainax Bounce"], but taking it as a prerequisite of the media feels like selling it short.)
Sister_Acacia · 656 weeks ago
But most of them use it anyway (special mention to Shirow Masamune there, who went from hentai doujin to best-selling Ghost in the Shell, and then went on to... high-resolution hentai), and I wouldn't have it any other way. Now I can't stand, at all, the ones where women are just cheerleaders while the MEN GO AND DO STUFF (see: most anime with a teenage boy audience without yet hitting the "too much fan service/nudity to show kids" benchmark - Dragonball, Naruto, YGO!), or where they are constantly handled and abused my males, but I'm all for boobs and knickers. It's the difference between Freezing (where for a nice change it's the males that are relegated to providing assistance at ringside), and Ikkitousen (which is much too rapey).
And basically, that's the thing that saddens me about the Sisters of Battle: they're not a force in their own right (if you want a female-only force that show they can fight as well as the guys, that upper body strength makes little difference when plasma is in play, you do some difficult, expensive customising of Guardsmen, or you field DE and make a few mods here and there). The Sisters are attack dogs that are controlled by the creepy old men. It wasn't *as* bad in the C:WH dex, where the priest units were "Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Army" and the actual tag partners were the Inquisition (who could be either sex). But Ward and Crudface couldn't have that, could they?
If the next Sisters Codex (in what, 2035?) has the Adepta Sororitas as a fighting force in their own right, not slaves to the old men, then that'll be a step forward, and that will bring 40k *up to* the level of Anima or Relic Knight. Until now, despite being Cleavage Wars, it's doing better for females.
And yeah, with the exception of specific "This is really funny, tjeck it out" things from people who I know don't care about "It's about this guy, and he has A MASSIVE PENI- I mean, SWORD/GUN" shows (I recommend Nichijou to everyone, from children to grown-ups), I mainly look out for things on a Fan Service site.
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
>Freezing
See, and this is where I would diverge in opinion- yes, the women in Freezing are nominally the "important" characters, but there are some caveats to that. There's still an implied power dynamic that's tilted against them- they're basically worthless without their male partner. Second, and more importantly, is the fanservice angle- all of the action, all of the costumes (and removal of costumes), etc, is all highly highly sexualized. The women pose, prance, and moan kittenishly for an invisible audience (which is to say the viewer) because, well, that's what women are for, right?
I do realize that GW's presence of female models is... well, basically nonexistent, but I would rank SoB (model-wise, at least) a notch above the Relic Knights stuff. SoB may have boob armor and all that, but they aren't explicitly portrayed as sex objects the way the female models from Soda Pop are. In fact, most of the SoB art (bar Repentia and a few other exceptions) in the books is distinctly unsexy, which I appreciate.
Sister_Acacia · 656 weeks ago
Not really - the male is worthless on his own, as he can only use Freezing (a short-term AoE stunlock that also locks him). The girls, without Limiters, can fight just fine - they just get a huge edge if they have a Limiter. Ultimately, the difference is: MvM: two people standing still, no winner, FvF: a vicious fight with a winner, MvF: a period of two people standing still, and then a very brief fight that the female wins. MFvX: MF wins with a "handcuff beatdown". MFvMF: a sort of tactical battle (with elements of "gank the Limiter").
>Second, and more importantly, is the fanservice angle- all of the action, all of the costumes (and removal of costumes), etc, is all highly highly sexualized.
And? Seriously, fan service isn't a big deal. It's a great thing to have, as a viewer.
>The women pose, prance, and moan kittenishly for an invisible audience (which is to say the viewer) because, well, that's what women are for, right?
No, that's what entertainers are for - and you're watching a form of entertainment. It's supposed to be visually appealing, with pretty characters, flashy special effects, and plenty of sexiness. Just like actors in films tend to be more attractive than is realistic for their situations.
>but I would rank SoB (model-wise, at least) a notch above the Relic Knights stuff.
That's the thing though: women don't actually give much of a shit about how decently dressed (or, let's face it: ugly, in the case of most of the SoB minis) the minis are when it comes to sexism and demeaning things. That is not as big a deal as the fluff of the game, and in Cleavage Knight, the fluff says there are groups led by females (some as all-girl forces, others with males accepting orders from a female), and in 40k, the women are the slaves of the church. That's the thing that determines whether we'll buy into the game at all.
Now, whether we'll *buy* the minis, straight girls aren't going to be interested in buying Fan Service Forces, but that's something that isn't getting in the way for me, thankfully. It just gives all the more reason to go for it. But it's less of a direct turn-off than 40k (and as for Warmachine, the actual playerbase do that on their own - thanks, PP!)
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
Again, it's not that fanservice is a problem; it's that fanservice is a _prerequisite_ for female characters being allowed to play any kind of role in the story. (Speaking more broadly than just Freezing, I mean.) Male characters can be ugly or worthless or whatever, but in order to be any kind of female lead or even just supporting character you have to be, at a bare minimum, sexy and constantly posed to show off as much as possible.
>No, that's what entertainers are for - and you're watching a form of entertainment. It's supposed to be visually appealing, with pretty characters, flashy special effects, and plenty of sexiness. Just like actors in films tend to be more attractive than is realistic for their situations.
There's a huge difference between "Ripley is an attractive woman who does stuff" and "Micheal Bay only puts women in the film so he can leer at them." It's not simply that they are attractive, it's that much of what occurs exists only to showcase their sexual appeal. I think Freezing, Sekirei, etc, all suffer from this same problem- the female characters, whether "strong" or not, still exist primarily to be sexual objects.
>and in 40k, the women are the slaves of the church.
In 40K basically EVERYONE is a slave of the church (or, in the case of Space Marines, the chapter.) I would hardly call it particularly progressive, but fluffwise in 40K women are equal to men (the Imperial Guard is supposedly mixed-gender), so I don't feel like that angle is particularly offensive. It's just that the model range is drastically lacking that leaves things awkward, along with the "the most common army in the game can only be mans for some reason" decision.
Sister_Acacia · 656 weeks ago
Well, you're free to feel the way you do - and I certainly won't be forcing you at gunpoint to support sodapop in any way. But I assure you that things that actually offend women and drive them away from the hobby are not sexualisation - making every female model sexy, scantily clad and provocative - but actual objectification (making them subservient to men), along with player/company attitudes (see Page Five of Warmachine).
Alastores · 656 weeks ago
Sister_Acacia · 656 weeks ago
phalanxlord 61p · 656 weeks ago
malko · 656 weeks ago
what is wrong with tits?
as opposed to muscles, blades, boils, teeth, scars, sutures or horns?
why not highlight and exaggerate tits as these other features are highlighted and exaggerated?
tits are not shameful, everybody likes them.
why is it ok to revel in violence and not in voluptuousness?
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
Claiming that guns == tits isn't really the same thing at all because, even if you assume the gun as integral to a soldier, not every soldier in their lineup is carrying a massively prominent gun as his sole defining feature. The issue is that hypersexualization is a _prerequisite_ for being a female character.
>why is it ok to revel in violence and not in voluptuousness
The portrayal of violence in Western media is another issue entirely and certainly one that deserves attention, but the summarized version is essentially that the ideal of violence is less absolute as a defining factor for male characters than sexuality is for female characters. You can have a nerd, outcast, or loser male character who never commits an act of violence (physical or social) in the whole of his portrayal, but in most media in order for a character be seen as meaningfully female, she must be shown to be sexy in some way (which might be a "secret sexy librarian" sort of way or it might be a much more overt one, but it WILL be there.)
I don't in fact, have any problem with sexuality in media, it's just the EXCLUSIVE portrayal of women as sexual objects that is a problem.
malko · 656 weeks ago
only male characters who are nerds, losers and outcasts?
there are non-sexual female characters who are failures too, i expect.
if we focus on wargames, the number of males without big guns drops to near zero
and perhaps sexuality is one of the weapons that women bring to the table.
also, because those things which are sexy about men are not labelled as such
then they can be included in character designs without being thought of as purely sexual.
strong hands, clear eyes, elegant necks and sense of humour
are not identified as purely being tacked onto male characters to make women fancy them,
even though they do have that effect.
however, make-up, boobs, sassy clothing and a sense of physical freedom
can only be part of a character as part of a male-directed fan-service,
can't they?
no woman could ever be served well by beauty except in relation to men,
could they?
i do take the points about the lack of women in wargaming
and the embarrassing adolescent lechery that can accompany naked girl toys
and i promise,
i am shutting up now :)
WestRider · 656 weeks ago
Unless this game is actually about fucking*, it's exaggerating features that have nothing whatsoever to do with the activities involved.
Myself, I'd rather keep sex and violence separate.
*And I would be interested to see what kind of Gameplay a good designer could come up with to represent sex in a tabletop miniature game.
malko · 656 weeks ago
then american folks who like japanese stuff can :)
abusepuppy 121p · 656 weeks ago
Sister_Acacia · 656 weeks ago
I'll display them on the same shelves as my Sisters, see if anyone notices :)
(Also, seeing how many wargamers love to pick "The dark/evil/demonic/undead/gothic side" (particularly the huge representation Cryx has in Warmachine, skewing tournament results), I will rejoice in not selecting it. I'll go for girly forces!)
Thanks, whitestar, I'm happy to spend money on this one.
carlos · 656 weeks ago
itcamefromthedeep · 656 weeks ago
The rolling initiative means that as your models die, the models you have remaining get to go more often relative to enemies. This created, in the demo, a situation where a player lost -because he killed too many models-. He may very well have won that game if he had chosen to ignore the enemy and deliberately refuse to take his pieces.
- - -
The initiative sequence makes it look as if the optimal force, for virtually any scenario, is a single Relic Knight model plus attendant cypher (because you have to take it, not because you want it)… and nothing else. As few models as possible.
This will allow the initiative count for your strongest model to come up as often as possible, and minimize “weak” turns. The relative lack of durability strikes me as largely illusory, because a lot of the Relic Knight models have tier 2 dodges or the like available to them and the ability to simply recharge a ton of Esper each activation, meaning that their ability to go more often is as much a boon to their survivability as their offense.
This looks like a problem. Does it appear to be a for-realsies thing or am I overstating the case?
- - -
Anyone who played against Tau in 4e remembers how aggravating JSJ tactics were. Well, this game seems to feature JSJ on every model. Of course, only models with ranged abilities can pop out then hurt something then run away out of LoS, but the subset of models with ranged abilities is quite large.
Is this a problem?
whitestar333 61p · 656 weeks ago
That said, the rules are not finalized and I believe that they're still working out the rules for "squadrons" so the final game might look a little different from what was seen in the demo. I'm sure many of the core rules will stay the same, but since the rules won't be out until May, they still have time to fix any concerns people have. One of the goals of the Kickstarter is to get word out there and publicize the game so they can get the community to playtest and give them feedback on the forums too.
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