" Hi Kirby!
First time to email you my list.
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HQ:
Lord Kaldor Draigo (275)
Elites: 145
Vindicare Assassin (145)
Troops:
5x Paladin Squad (320)
Nemesis Daemon Hammer + Storm Bolter
Nemesis Force Halberd + Storm Bolter
Nemesis Force Halberd + Psycannon
Nemesis Force Sword + Psycannon
MC Nemesis Force Sword +Storm Bolter
1x Paladin Squad (55)
Nemesis Daemon Hammer + Storm Bolter
5x Grey Knight Strike Squad (161)
Psycannon
Razorback+serchlight+Psybolt Ammunition
10x Grey Knight Strike Squad (281)
Psycannon (x2)
Psybolt Ammunition
Rhino+serchlight
Fast Attack:
Stormraven Gunship (206)
TL Lascannon
Twin-linked Multi-Melta
serchlight
Heavy Support:
Dreadnought (136)
Psybolt Ammunition
TL Autocannon
TL Autocannon
serchlight
Dreadnought (136)
Psybolt Ammunition
TL Autocannon
TL Autocannon
serchlight
Dreadnought (135)
Psybolt Ammunition
TL Autocannon
TL Autocannon
Total Army Cost: 1850
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It works well in both vassal and in real life.
Thoughts?
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apple1988218"
The list is solid but the lone Stormraven (where I Imagine the Paladins are going?) is a pretty big target for your opponent without adding too much. I'd rather see those points invested into a full Purifier squad where they could take maximum use of scout from Draigo whilst also giving you some more Psycannons, stormbolters and bodies.
Altneratively, you could run a normal Grand Master in place of Draigo for some more points to play with (i.e.more Purifiers + Rhinos/Razorbacks) as well as bringing some Grenadegoodness (which can be dragged along with scouting Purifiers). This would render the Solodin less useful however and isn't a 'clear cut' better choice over Draigo.
Kirb your enthusiasm!
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
Friday, April 20, 2012
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Crynn · 672 weeks ago
Also Vindicares are pretty much useless in this due to the lack of mech wall to protect him and provide firing lanes for him, the other unit that is really needed for a vind to work is a techmarine allowing to get a 2++ cover save most of the time.
Regards,
Crynn
seiterarch · 672 weeks ago
The solodin would really require two psychic communions (or possibly some servo-skulls to allow you to ignore your backfield objective) to be of any use as late game scoring. This also overlaps with the 10 man strike squad if the purpose of that was to squad and leave the canon-less unit backfield.
I don't think a mech wall would really help the vindicare so much as more manageable targets. As it stands, the list has 8-9 targets on the board first turn (dependant on squadding; presuming draigo and the paladins mount up). Of these, the psyback strike squad poses little threat, (along with the theoretical unmounted squad). The rest of the army is 4 'hard' targets (raven, dreads) and two 'easy' targets (the rhino and the vindicare).
Once the rhino and the raven are taken out, the list has laughably little ability to take forward objectives and firepower will be dedicated to the easiest-to-kill threats. Hello vindicare.
Anon · 672 weeks ago
HQ:
Librarian w/stave, 'Might', 'Sanctuary', 'Shrouding', 'Warp Rift'
(205 points)
Elites:
(2) Flame Knight w/halberd, Purifier w/hammer, 4 x Purifiers w/halberds,
4 x Purifiers w/psycannons, Rhino
(335 points each)
Troops:
Justicar w/halberd, 2 x Terminators w/hammers,
2 x Terminators w/halberd+psycannon, 5 x Terminators w/halberds
(450 points)
Justicar, 2 x Knights w/psycannons, 7 x Knights, Rhino
(255 points)
Heavy Support:
(2) PsyDread
(135 points)
Total: 1,850
There are other Coteaz builds that might have more bodies/transports/melta, but for pure Knights that's pretty good. 30 in power armour, 10 in TDA, still double PsyDread and three Rhinos for modest armour saturation. Librarian joins the Terminator blob and makes them god-like and scary. To scale to 2k, you can just add another Strike squad of the same build and drop 'Warp Rift' off the Librarian
Anon · 672 weeks ago
Add a Vindicare lol, and maybe buy a servo-skull with the change
seiterarch · 672 weeks ago
The list really lacks forward scoring potential. (It has three mobile units and one gimmick, two of the mobile units are high priority and the other is five marines in a box.)
It would be a difficult list to empty from backfield objectives though.
Mark D. · 672 weeks ago
The biggest beef is the measuring. Tanks measure movement from the centre of the tank rather than the hull, which allows sheanigans which wouldn't be allowed on the tabletop (or the rules). And worse - the measuring stick always rounds down. So if you are measuring 24", you can measure out 24.9" and it still reads 24". And, if I remember correctly, the bubble measurements are from the centre of the model, not the base edges. This leads to arguments about things - and into my second problem.
Opponents. There are definately good ones on there, but there are also a large spattering of real douches on it. Measuring shenanigans, not following the rules about measuring range for blast templates *after* placing it, letting your opponent know what you are doing before you do it (measuring, rolling, etc), not going back and re-moving a model once you've already moved it (also against the rules)... the list goes on and on. Much of it is because once you've played a few games you know the tricks and shortcuts which Vassal facilitates and can take full advantage of them. And also the parts which are slower to use, so can avoid. Unfortunately, for someone who doesn't - it is next to impossible to follow what is going on, which combined with usually playing someone you don't know leads to problems. For example, some think the auto-roll system's odds aren't spread properly (the hit/wound/pen system built in) so they simply roll Xd6s. Which, if you know what they're rolling for and what numbers they need, etc - can work. But if they just start rolling and rolling and rolling without explaining, and then just announce the results to you - it can be very off-putting. Patience and communication are requiring to play a good Vassal game.
Finally Terrain. If the game wasn't TLOS, then a two dimensional map would likely be alright. But for 40k, this is a problem. Many of the buildings and rubble are not easy to convert to 3d in your mind. Plus converting that to what would and wouldn't be in LOS during the game can lead to problems. Then you have models and LOS. You have to know both what your models heights/etc would be, plus what your opponents models height would look like too. Which also leads to disputes about what can see over what, and at what distance, etc.
Vassal is a good tool for general fun play and experimentation - but if you want to play a serious and realistic game, there are too many points of contention possible unless you've got a good relationship with your opponent. And, of course, you both understand and accept the limitations inherant with the software.
apple1988218 · 671 weeks ago
apple1988218 · 671 weeks ago
No, the bubble measurements are from the base edges. A terminator has bigger 24" bubble than a guardsman.