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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him


Thursday, July 29, 2010

Balanced lists vs. ETC style lists, Part 1: A beginning



Alrighty folks, Smurfy here putting my money where my gab is, so to speak in a sense. You all might be asking "What's this?" Well first let's go about origins.

We got Stelek yakking off his opinions on the lists for some ETC event going down with many countries versus each other in some kind of "Warhammer 40,000 olympics" for country pride and bragging rights thing going on.

http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/07/etc-8-men-in-8-men-out.html

People of course don't take kindly to the "Suck, Suck, Lollypop please, suck, ooh chocolate center!" commentary (Do they ever take the criticism well? No, sadly they don't. Who are the grown ups here?) and have taken it bitterly by trying to laugh him off as the only way I've seen how: Saying he's wrong while not actually proving it.

(http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=74387) Note they follow the common trend of resorting to insults (For a beer and pretzels game, really guys?) to try to make themselves seem high and mighty.

That got me fuming a bit, but when some site (http://www.40kings.de/?p=1775) put forth their rebuttal, it still was
very inconsisant and had gaping holes. (In my opinion) So, since they aren't listening to arguments but saying "play
the game" I thought I'd take that up.

Kirby
Brother Loring
Professor Curly
Smurfy (Me!)
(Anyone else willing appreciated! Contact us on Vassal, leave a comment here with the screen name
you'll be using or you won't find me on there, lol. I is stealth bot!)

All are gonna hop on VASSAL and do some proxy matchups with some what we feel are balanced lists. Mostly we're gonna try lists from Stelek. Notably his NOVACon ideas, his best shot at a balanced Dark Angels, Immolator Sisters, Mech IG Etcetera.Some links for ideas of what we're using, but I'll post the link/list with the BRs as we do them.

http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/07/nova-con-list-insanity.html
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/09/dark-angels-list-best-of.html
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2008/09/johns-army.html
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/06/best-of-imperial-guard_05.html
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2001/01/critical-mass-new-best-of-space-marine.html

The opposition? A random assortment of ETC lists from various teams. Lucky for us the majority of the lists for each given race are the same. (Lash Chaos, Trukk/Battlewagon spam Orks, Mech IG, Character spam SW, "I likey Exorcist" SoB etcetera.) Played by? Us, switching off (which is why more people are always appreciated making this possible.) Now if you guys prefer a team by team breakdown, that could be possible I suppose, I don't know if we need to though.

I'll be the first to admit I bet none of us are seasoned generals using ANY of the lists we're gonna be trying out
But we do have experience knowing our tools available to us. If any of you feel we played a list wrong, sure tell us and help us out!

So this was just a preliminary thread for interest-sakes. Stay classy guys!

17 pinkments:

Brent said...

The interest is high, my man!

Preach on.

Messanger of Death said...

I'm game. Although this will be interesting due to time-zones, work, university and family responsibilities spread out between 8+ individuals.

Screen name on Vassal is the same as every where else. I've just never played on it... me are noobz.

And I put up a list of 6 mechanised lists in the 40Kings discussion. They were lost in the Warps but returned safely.

Messanger

Messanger of Death said...

Remember no allies allowed in the ETC with the exception of Inducted IG into Inquisition armies. So the Dark Angels and Space Marine list probably won't work out so well.

Messanger

Chumbalaya said...

I approve. It won't prove anything but it'll be fun.

clt40k said...

Can we make fun of the losers?

Smurfy said...

Sure crazy dude...

I guess it'll be mostly for fun now too, thanks for any interest.

VT2 said...

ETC = Warhammer 40,000, special olympics edition.

Kirby said...

I'm in =p. Blood Rodeo > u.

VT2 said...

Where do I get vassal, and what exactly is it?

Brother Loring said...

vassal can be found here...

http://www.vassalengine.org/

and you needs to search for the 40k module. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

Eltnot said...

"Now if you guys prefer a team by team breakdown, that could be possible I suppose, I don't know if we need to though." If you're not going to run it as a team event then why bother doing this? Otherwise it's just a bunch of meaningless games played one on one which isn't what ETC is.

Kirby said...

I think he means analysing each teams' lists rather than playing them independently.

Thud said...

If you guys want this to be relevant to the ETC, you'll need to take the whole pairing drama into account. Apparently that's a pretty big deal. It's not about individual victories, it's about forcing draws over the line and getting a couple of perfect match-ups where you can steam-roll the opposing players and thus get a team win.

ETC is not regular 40k, regardless of whether or not you like it, and if you want to prove that balanced lists are still better, you really need to take that into account.

Personally, I'm inclined to agree that balanced lists are still better, but, ya know, just sayin'...


And by the way, what's with the country-bashing, eh? Here in Viking-land it's perfectly normal to shoot a baby seal in the heart with a shotgun and finish it off with a crowbar to the face. Same goes for whales. And if we had dolphins, we'd kill them too. ;)

VT2 said...

ETC is about which team gets drunk the fastest, yet manages to produce the most draws.

It's retarded.

If you really want to bash on them, have each person create their own 'team' of balanced armies, then pit those teams against the different countries teams.

Booze is optional.

And thanks for the link.

Smurfy said...

Thud, if you wanna get involved on this, you wanna do some pairings? That is indeed my beef with the whole entirety of the ETC.

Tyler said...

I love the pick at the top.

Roland Durendal said...

Kirbster, count me in!

PS, Thudd's comment reminds me why I love Vikings and Scandinavia.

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