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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him


Wednesday, July 14, 2010

BroLo Needs Help!

I'm not sure why there would be US dollars in my British pocket, but you get the point.

Okay, for anybody that speaks to me on the interwebz, they should know I'm working some silly hours this month (about 350 hours for those that care). But I'm not complaining 'cus work means $$$s, ummm.... I mean £££s, and in this economic environment I cannot complain.

But all of this money is burning a little hole in my pocket and I'm up for wasting spending it. Black Templars will always be my High School sweetheart, but who can say no to the hot, slutty girl next door? So I've got some options. Kirby did a nice little BA sang guard drop list for me here which with some changes gives me this...
HQ - Dante - 225
HQ - Librarian - Jump pack - Lance/Shield - 125

Elite - Sanguinary Priest - Jump pack - 75
Elite - Sanguinary Priest - Jump pack - 75

Troop - Sanguine Guard - Power fist, Infernus pistol x2 - 230
Troop - Sanguine Guard - Power fist, Infernus pistol x2 - 230
Troop - Assault Squad (10) - Meltagun x 2 - 210
Troop - Assault Squad (5) - Meltagun - 110

Fast Attack - Vanguard Veteran - Jump Packs, PF, SS/MB, LC, MB, - 220

Total - 1500

I love the models, but I already have one and I'm a tiny bit bored of painting power armour.

The next option would be Tyranids. I feel like a bit of a band wagon jumper (Kirby/Chumby/Mercer/GraveMind among many others I'm sure) with the bug-love, but after a few games on Vassal with them, they're real good fun.

So... without further ado...

HQ - Tyranid Prime - Lashwhip/Bonesword, Deathspitter - 100
HQ - Tyranid Prime - Lashwhip/Bonesword, Deathspitter - 100

Elite - Hive Guard (2) - 100
Elite - Hive Guard (2) - 100
Elite - Hive Guard (2) - 100

Troop - Tervigon - Catalyst, Adrenal glands, Toxin sacs - 195
Troop - Tervigon - Catalyst, Adrenal glands, Toxin sacs - 195

Troop - Termagaunt (10) - 50
Troop - Termagaunt (10) - 50

Heavy Support - Trygon Prime - Adrenal Glands, Regeneration - 275
Heavy Support - Trygon - Adrenal Glands, Regeneration - 235

1500 (36T6 wounds and a further 6T5 ones pretending to be T6)

My other option for 40k would be Tau, but I don't much fancy another 4e codex that I'll always be dreading a soon-to-be update. Other options are Wood Elves for WFB or donating some money to Privateer Press in exchange for some awesome Warjack loving!

Or I could just give the money to Kirby?

Anyways, I'd appreciate some advice on lists and advice from anybody who's tried these sort of lists out at 1500. Thanks for the advice guys!

18 pinkments:

Auretious Taak said...

Part 1 (4,096 characters max? That's less then I get on YTTH!!!):

Ummm by Tervigon's in the HS section do you mean Trygons? I think you do.

Okay you don't need the Prime upgrade on the Trygon for a start, there was an interesting analysis on it by a guy who ran an on paper not power list for 'ard Boyz but which got to the finals beating everyone despite the laughter in his face and ridicule for running an apparently failtastic list. It had a single Tervigon in it and 10 termagants at 2,500pts...

Anyways you can trim alot of stuff from your list to bring in a more solid force. As you are likely shoving the Primes in with the Hive Guard you might consider dropping Regenerate on the Primes to make the units more survivable. However, I'd ditch one Prime completely to be honest freeing up 100pts. I'd drop the prime upgrade on the trygon giving you another 40pts (Prime gives you no instinctive behaviour but with IB you feed anyways so who cares with such a combat monster!, it also gives shadow in the warp which whilst nice is not necessary with an otherwise slow moving foot force and the tervigons should start to be in range turn 2-3 anyways, and it also gives 6 extra shots at range of which 3 hit and at str 5 well it varies - but all of this amounts to do you need another Shadow in the Warp or not and if not you are paying 40pts for an extra 6 BS 3 str 5 shots which is not worth it).

I'd run Onslaught on the two Tervigons for 30pts so as you can onsalught either a Hive Guard Unit or the Trygons, but likely the Hive Guard and get first turn pot shots into enemy vehicles.

I would also consider dropping that second Trygon for a Tyrannofex with Rupture Cannon at 265pts so you've lost another 30pts, so as you get a solid gunboat and more ranged anti tank that your opponent will shit bricks over. You lose a bit of ani-infantry combat potential but the anti-infantry at range is what you take a Tyrannofex for anyways (Electroshock Grubs are str 5 ap 5 so can do damage occasionally to vehicles but still wound most infantry on a 2+ or 3+ so you gain more from this then you do dessicator larvae) alongside shoot and die rupture cannon (use it to suppress land speeders as a sure thing, people will laugh at such uses but only stupid people, but it is guaranteed and thus can save Hive Guard from Typhoon Krak death for example).

I'd also run a pair of Biovores. They ain't ordnance weapons, note the assault 1 value on their profile, you can move these up behind the tervigons and keep them in synapse range to provide solid reach across the whole bopard by mid-game such that no one is safe. Few people run the little guys but boy are they worth it and you need something for those players who run foot hoards and 2 large blasts a turn is great for that with the rest of the force. That's another 90pts, so have blown 150pts from a total of 140pts. So -10pts currently. So we trim Adrenal Glands off of one of the Tervigons and we're set.

Auretious Taak said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chumbalaya said...

Yay for Bloodwing. Looks fine to me, I prefer the HG for accurate melta with Dante but that's about it.

Nids look good, I just prefer T-fexes to Trygons.

Auretious Taak said...

Part 2:

I'd like to replace a unit of Hive Guard with 2 Zoanthropes in a cluster mycetic spore but we can't afford that without weakening the list too much...unless we drop regenerate off the Trygon and also drop a Biovore for 70pts drop 2 Hive Guard for 100pts more, grab 2 zoanthropes for 120pts and a mycetic spore with cluster spines at 50pts and bam we've a different looking force but a much more flexible and less predictable army.

Remember that redundancy isn't just about same unit choices but units which can achieve the same role as well as bringing greater saturation/synergy to an army.

The zoanthropes bring in solid fire power which freaks people out and are the equivalent of a suicide melta unit, but which also drop Shadow in the Warp in the opponents face from the 2nd turn onwards (with some luck, and late game arrival there is less chance that the psychic defenses are still around so they start to be a nuisance and can go contest stuff and just tarpit for fun.

Taak's Re-jigged Loring Nids:

HQ - Tyranid Prime - Lashwhip/Bonesword, Deathspitter - 100

Elite - Hive Guard (2) - 100

Elite - Hive Guard (2) - 100

Elite - Zoanthropes (2), in Dedicated Transport Mycetic Spore with Cluster Mines - 170

Troop - Tervigon - Catalyst, Onsalught, Adrenal glands, Toxin sacs - 210

Troop - Tervigon - Catalyst, Onslaught, Adrenal glands - 200

Troop - Termagaunt (10) - 50

Troop - Termagaunt (10) - 50

Heavy Support - Trygon, Adrenal Glands 210

Heavy Support - Tyrannofex, Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Electroshock grubs - 265

Heavy Support - Biovore - 45

1,500/1,500pts

Cheers mate, I'll run a Space Puppies list against you when I get a chance, I'd love to play against your nids again, lol. :)

Auretious Taak.

The_King_Elessar said...

Oh yeah? Well, maybe I will write you a list too. :p

Later, not now though...

Hey - I just noticed - I have more Followers than Kirby again! YAY!

Meister_Kai said...

"I'm not sure why there would be US dollars in my British pocket, but you get the point."

Mr. Washington and his twin don't know why they are there either, in fact they have hatched a plan to escape your freedom hating British pocket.

On a more "to the topic" note, go with Nids. World doesn't need more Marines lol.

With my uneducated Nid eye I like the look of Taak's list, as I don't know if 6 HG as your only real anti-tank besides Trygon's raping it is good enough.

Brother Loring said...

*Facepalm*

That's what I get for publishing a post at 2 a.m. without proof-reading. I've already corrected 2 or 3 mistakes, but good spot Taak.

I'll get back to you with a reply to your lists later on, but you do realise Kirby dies a little bit inside every time Biovores are mentioned right??

Kirby said...

I'd say Tau cause they rock, especially if you can find a Rapid Insertion pack. Both the lists you posted though are fine with a few tweaks.

For BA I'd drop the 5 man squad and work in another VV. You could have 2 5 man, bare bone squads and perhaps drop the 10 man ASM to 5 man and fit in some SS but otherwise solid.

Agreeing with Taak on the Nids list in dropping the Prime upgrade and a Prime and adding the points elsewhere. I like his idea of the Biovores at those points but don't think splitting your Elites/HSupport up like that is the best (Zoans I'm fine with, T-Fex/Trygon not so). I'd be happy with the 2 Trygons though not being able to reliably bring them on from reserve is a PitA.

@TKE; how old is your blog yes? lol

Kirby said...

@BroLo; biovores aren't bad just when they are offered about as the best HSupport like on Warseer...well meh, nerdrage lol.

AbusePuppy said...

BA list thoughts:
-The ASM seem needless when you're building a Dante list; at 1500, he's a huge chunk of points, so you really need to make what you're doing with him perfect or he's not worth it, so max those Sanguine Guard and go to town.

'Nids list:
Trygon Prime isn't really doing anything for you, 40pts for 6 S5 shots isn't a good deal. Regen is generally an all-or-nothing proposition, don't go halfway with it. You also really want a way to give your big guys cover if you're trying to abuse it. T.Primes should probably drop Deathspitters (they'll rarely matter when you're in a squad with S8 guns) and take Toxin instead, which makes you into a combat monster. Your list is kinda the stereotypical Tyranids 5E one, but it works quite well. The points you save from upgrades can probably go into adding another unit you like- you've mostly got your bases covered there.

I don't really fancy Taak's list much, I must admit. Feels like too much of a "Ooh, and I want one of THESE, too!" grab bag. Two powers on a Tervi is generally a waste of points, Biovore just seems like a space-filler, Zoeys with no reserves support are gonna be meat or nonpresent.

The_King_Elessar said...

:p

Brother Loring said...

Okay... so finally got time for a proper reply... maybe this should be another post, but I'll save Kirby the effort of editing in page breaks etc.

I'll leave Taak until the end as it will probably need a separate post.

@Chumby - I just don't think HG will fit into this list. With the Sang guard, it becomes too elite and expensive. And they can't replace the Sang guard 'cus then it won't be SangWing, would it? Duh.
p.s. where have you been? You've been greatly missed on Vassal! <3

@TKE - Less talking and more making lists for me.

@Meister-Kei - He changes 4 BS4 Str 8 shots and a CC monster, for 2 Str10 BS3 shots and 2 BS4 Str 10 Ap1 lance shots. I think it's a tough decision, but the zoans take away T6 wounds from the list and can be a massive liability. Yes they can be great, but psychic defence nerfs their effectiveness greatly. Taking away a second trygon gives no redundency and most people can take off 6 T6 wounds if it's right up their nose.

@Kirby - we spoke a little about the VV and I don't really see the point of 2 VVs over one when they have no upgrades. Maybe I'm still missing something? I'll address some of your points in a separate post I think.

Brother Loring said...

@Taak - I don't really agree on some of the changes.

Synapse - Well, you've dropped two synapse creatures, but gained one in the Zoans. I can't see the zoans surviving very long (people are going to pwn them ASAP), so I think you could find yourself unstuck quite quickly. Yes the Trygon has feed, but I'd rather chose what I assault rather than be fed crap. And those zoans aren't going to be around long enough to provide reliable synapse.

Tyrannofex/Trygon - Just one is just not going to kick it. It's not even close to being reliable at taking out AV14 (2 of them will only avg 1 glance/pen per turn), and other than that doesn't really add to the list. If I was playing against a single T'Fex, I'd ignore it until it got right up in my face. Taking one over a 2nd Trygon just makes them both easy to deal with. I agree with Kirby's sentiments on not having any reserve manipulation.

Zoans - I'm not sure. No reserve manipulation for them to come in, 70 points more than the HG, whilst taking away T6 wounds from the list and again, are just not reliable enough when factoring in Psy test, BS4, Psy defence, cover. Not to mention they're likely going to be a one shot wonder.

I agree, Biovores aren't the worst, but I can't see anybody being overly scared by a single one.

I know my list wasn't the best (it was written at 2 a.m.) and I've only got experience with nids at 2k (and 1.5k seems to be a whole different ball game for them). But, I don't think the changes you've made really add a great deal. Just my thoughts, I'll try it out though.

@ AbusePuppy - The ASM are there for some 'ranged' (12"...lol) melta. Dante's unit will be deep-striking within 'melta' range, but unlikely the other sang guard squads will be. some 12" love is needed in the list and can be done cheaply (with some bubble wrap) with the ASM.

Marshal Wilhelm said...

Well, well, well. The Quis informants told me something funny was going on.... and here is BroLo, or should that be BroLow now.... hmmm?

Another set of Marines? Adultery! More Pain Glove less.... .... Spain Glove.... I blame the WC for your roving eyes. Repent now brother, the pain will be less. You don't need both your eyes anyway....

+++

This is my thinking, Marines are all Marines. Don't get another army of them - it is just more MEq. Sure BA are the most diverse being Eldar-esque. But it's still Marine Armour and Marine infantry being elite.
You already have that.
Then when Lord Codex Creep castes his eyes over BT, you be thinking those few BA are not so slick and wishing you did not having two sets of Marines.

To use a Internet Package analogy: 45 peak and 45 off peak GB are not the same as 90 GB anytime. You know what I'm sayin'?

Marshal Wilhelm said...

So I would recommend non-Marines.

I know you have a (disturbing) like of the prettiest forces possible.... Wood Elves and Blood Angels. It is unhealthy brother *shakes head* :D

Tau had always been a fancy of mine. Being all but 29, I grew up with Voltron, Battle tech and in the 80s, we dreamt the future into being ~ lol
They were an easy choice to be flip to the Templars.
Templars have the biggest kit-bashing range of all the Marines and cash in on GrimDark.
Tau are an extreme opposite to that - crisp, clean, neat lines, cheerful demeanour (perhaps they are the true Smurfs of 40K?) and barely racist.
They are also a shooty army with movement required, whilst BT are an Attack army (though Stelek refuses to play to my neat analogy of BT ~ lol) that moves.

ATT and other Tau centric blogs are in place (though ATT is a bit *neat* for my comfort) and Tau are personable, as in, you can relate to them. They are blue humans ~ I think of them as Space Asians ~ lol

When Tau get a new Codex, Lord Creep will buff them. Don't worry about that. Tau are a low seller. Tau will be made better. Tau become a moderate seller. I'm no Delphic Oracle, but that is what the lint in my belly-button tells me :D
Tau get much Forge World love. They will get positive Creep ;)

Marshal Wilhelm said...

Nids are also a good change.
No mech and have a good variety of flavours.
Aliens and Predator both give a good mental image for The Great Devourer.
Painting them will also be very different to BT, which is refreshing.
SPACE HULK and Advanced Space Crusade are also full of Nid stimulation.

I don't love them like the Tau, but I think they are a better second choice army than BA.

Marshal Wilhelm said...

....and then?

Brother Loring said...

Sorry MW.

I sort of posted my thoughts on Tau. I like them, but don't really want another 4e codex.

BA are attractive cus I'd only have to paint about 20 marines. And they're all beautiful models. The only thing is... like you said MOAR marines = :(

The big bugs would be nice to paint, but I'm not sure if I could face painting 60+ Termagants.

I'm sure I'd enjoy playing all 3, but I'll just have see how I feel at the end of the month.

Oh... and I've just bought a house (yay for me), so although a 2nd army is still on the cards, it may have to wait a month.

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