Kirb your enthusiasm!


"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Friday, October 29, 2010

Email in: 2000 Blood Angels: I though every one moved on to Dark Eldar?

"Hey Kirby!

First, I'm a big fan of your blog. I've been reading for about nine months now, and I've really enjoyed the site so far. You've got a nice mix of personalities in the contributing authors, and from my (admittedly unsophisticated) perspective you give strong, high quality advice relating to tactics and list building.

Alright enough butt-kissing. I'd like to hear (read?) your musings on a list I've cobbled together for BA. I haven't bought any of the models yet, as I currently play Tau. I'd like to take a stab at an assaulty-type army this time.

While I do appreciate "drop this, take that" style advice, I don't always understand the whys of the advice even when others might take it as a given. (what i'm trying to say is "talk slow, I'm a noob")

I'd most like to hear what you believe the strong points and weak points of my list are, in relation to types of deployment options/non-options and general first/second turn tactics would be. What match ups would this fare well against, and what would curb stomp it? Those kinds of evaluations would let me know if I've correctly estimated the list myself. :)

Is that asking for too much? Honest question. My thoughts follow the list.

2000 - Blood Angels - Giant Stompy Robots
Librarian - Jump Pack, (Lance, Sword)
Librarian - Jump Pack, (Lance, Sword)

Furioso Dread - Librarian, (Might, Wings)
Furioso Dread - Librarian, (Might, Wings)
Sanguinary Priest - x2, Jump Pack x2

Assault Marines - x10, Flamer x2
Assault Marines - x10, Flamer x2
Assault Marines - x10, Meltagun x2

Attack Bike - x2, Heavy Bolter x2
Attack Bike - x2, Multimelta x 2
Attack Bike - x2, Multimelta x 2

Dread - TLAC x2
Dread - TLAC x2
Dread - TLAC x2

The basic idea is to "go fast, smashy, smashy", cuz, well, it's BA. For most deployments I would hold the JP Libbys in reserve for deep strike, and deploy everything else. On my first turn, bikes go zoom, assault marines go boing, and the dreads move forward at their best speed. Second turn assault seems likely? I think I'd want to keep the dread libbys with the assault marines to add their combat weight where most of my punch is already, right? The bikes make transports their top priority, with the bolter bikes being the ones I swing farthest to side, trying to get side armor on things like chimeras.

If I feel the need to reserve everything, I'm a little unsure what to do. If I deep strike the marines, the dread libbys are left out in the cold. Would I DS the melta marines and bring the flamers on from reserve with the dread libbys? I lose out on descent that way, and reserves become unreliable again.

I've got 6 melta units, 2 furioso dreads, and 3 riflemen so I don't think there's a lack of anti-transport firepower. I've also got a good mix of stabby-stabby throughout the list and flamers, so hoard control shouldn't be TOO much of a hassle. Unless I miss my guess on both of those. *shrug* You tell me. :)

Problems will likely stem from alpha strike lists? On the plus side, 4 librarian hoods!

Well, start kicking apart my idea now, I guess. :)


Glad you're enjoying the personalities and the blog. I wonder how long until someone diagnoses me with multiple peronsaliities... Anyway, so basically you want a break down of your list; can do. Looking at your list it's operating in quite distinct parts. This can work for some armies (i.e. Space Wolves) and not at all for others (i.e. Daemons). I've personally found and feel Blood Angels don't do this well which leads to my meh-ness towards Hybrid Blood Angels (Koopa's being the exception). Looking at your list you want to deep strike some things (Libbys), stand and shoot with some things (Dreadnoughts) and run forward with some things but at three different speed levels (ASM, Bikes, Dreads). The problem with Winged Dreads is when you come up against any army with psy defense. Suddenly only one Dread is running forward with your force which means the best place for these guys is in a Stormraven or in a Drop Pod. Problem with Pods becomes meltaguns unless your spamming them.

So basically you've got a bunch of concepts in the list which don't really synergise that well unfortunately. Your opponent can target your anti heavy tank pretty easily (Attack Bikes) and your suppression fire (Dreadnoughts) as they are the major threats without much duality covered in the rest of your force. If an opponent is able to knock out your AB and shake your Rifledreads Turn 1 (which is not unreasonable), your ability to impact upon the game becomes limited.

So it basically boils down to what you want the list to do. Again, if you want to go Hybrid Blood Angels, Koopa's list is one I am rather attracted to (shotgun!) and is a good template on which to build (i.e. you can replace the Rifledreads with Predators). If you don't want to go Hybrid Blood Angels I think a Hammer style list with Devastators backing up ASM/Sang Guard might be in the direction you are looking for. You basically replace the Dreadnoughts with Devastors, you can keep the ASM (but outfit them with double meltagun and Powerfist) and replace the Furiosos with Sanguinary Guard. You can also keep some of the Bikes but not 6 as you won't have the points. This keeps your ranged firepower in Devastators but they are not easily shut down by being the only ranged armor on the field and punching power in combat from Sanguinary Guard. You are also more easily able to split your army as FNP Marines in cover are pretty hard to remove which allows your ASM/SG to reserve and deep-strike. The Attack Bikes become a problem here though but you might prefer to invest their points into the Devs/ASM/SG anyway.

So an indication in what direction you'd like to go will help with refining your list but as it stands there are basically too many seperate parts trying to work together and your opponent can single out what they find the most threatening and neutralise it. What you want your army to do when it doesn't operate as a singularity is put pressure on your opponent which they find difficult to avoid whilst the rest of your army mobilises. This is what Hybrid Space Wolves do very well as their Long Fangs/LasPlas RBacks damage the enemy from T1 and then their Grey Hunters/Wolf Scouts/Land Speeders/TWC come into play as the game evolves. Whilst your list is also capable of doing this, your initial output (i.e. Dreads) is a lot easier to shut down.

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