Email in: Comp, list help

Sunday, October 10, 2010

Email in: Comp, list help

Posted by Unknown

"Dear Kirby,

Since you're used to dealing with comp in your area, I figured you'd be the best to contact on the manner. So here's my dilemma, I have a heavily comped GT coming up and from the looks of the missions, it seems to favor those whom can win by a sizable margin of VP and KP. Unfortunately, I've always played a redundant codex marine list, and while not flashy, it can take a pounding and at the end of the game, I'm the one winning. According to this comp though, you get penalized for taking redundant units. So I'm at a total loss on how to build a SM list that's not redundant but can put a beating on someone first, and worry about objectives later.

THanks,
GS"

I don't really deal with comp because I basically ignore it. That would be my advise here :P but penalised how and what is classified as redundent? If you change wargear does it matter or are you still penalised? How much are you penalised for having two flamer/MM/rhino tac squads or 2 dakka preds for example? If you aren't penalised heavily for having the same units but different wargear I'd just swap some wargear in and out. Add combis, dozer blades, hunter killers, combat weapons, etc to change up units from exact duplicates. If you're still penalised for that I'd prob look at taking a couple duplicates of Predators and Tacticals and you can split things up elsewhere. Sternguard/Dreads can split roles and same with Speeders/Attack Bikes.

I'd again lean towards ignoring comp, pointing out that it just changes the system to the TO's and play with what you usually do but that's just my (strong) opinion.

Comments (17)

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Bro_Lo 82p · 756 weeks ago

I had a thought about this the other week GS. I was going to post up a thread about redundency without spam.

Maybe I'll do it tomorrow.

1 reply · active 756 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Kirby 118p · 756 weeks ago

Tomorrow has come and nearly gone...

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fester40k 73p · 756 weeks ago

GS: can you pop up your current list so that we have have a looksee. I spend a lot (read: all) my time playing in comped environments so I might be able to help you out.

Comp is all about managing perceptions - regardless of effectiveness. Tri-Vindi will score worse Comp then tri-pred, for instance, and worse again than tri-devastator

0 Vote up Vote down

GS1 · 756 weeks ago

I'll post it up tomorrow, it's kinda real late here now. I appreciate any advice because it's quite frustrating trying to write a "comp" list

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Jason · 756 weeks ago

Librarian, terminator armour, storm shield, null zone, vortex.
10 Assault Terminators, thunder hammers, dedicated Crusader with multi melta. Splits into two five man squads.
Land Raider Crusader with multi melta.
Tactical Squad, power fist, flamer, multi-melta, Rhino.
Tactical Squad, power fist, flamer, multi-melta, Rhino.
Land Speeder, multi-melta, heavy flamer.
Land Speeder, multi-melta, heavy flamer.
Predator, heavy bolters.
Predator, heavy bolters.

Does that look like a redundancy list?

2 replies · active 756 weeks ago

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fester40k 73p · 756 weeks ago

So I would comp rate that list 2-3 out of 10.

Lots of firepower, twin Raiders.

If you wanted to make it friendlier for comp, drop the 2nd Raider and last 5 AssTerms for something else. VVs or something "non optimal" you can beef out. Maybe a biker captain with biker command squad
Its the dual-raiders that makes that list non-comp friendly.

Dropping the 2nd rock brings it up to a 5/10, which aint so bad (i.e about average)

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Jason · 756 weeks ago

Okay.

GS1, you'd better not field a list like that one.

That said, I don't even know what points list GS1 is playing.

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Cyklown 51p · 756 weeks ago

Hell yes. If they feel like providing silly/stupid rules, then by all means do your best to ignore them. Up to an including proving flaws in their attempts to resemblance the game.

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GS1 · 756 weeks ago

We play at 1850 around here
Here's what I'm working with now:

Librarian, terminator armour, storm shield, null zone, GoInf
7 Asst Termies, 6 THammers
10 man Tacsquad Meltagun MissleLauncher, Combi-Melta on sarg in Lascannon Razorback
10 man Tacsquad Meltagun MissleLauncher, Combi-Melta on sarg in Lascannon Razorback
5 man squad with Teliport homer in Lascannon Razorback
Land Speeder MM/HFlamer
Land Speeder MM/HFlamer
Land Speeder MM/HFlamer
Dakka Dread
Dakka Dread
AutoCannon LasCannon sponson Predator
AutoCannon LasCannon sponson Predator

Considering the whole comp score, I'm almost at the point where I want to ignore comp, but I have never played/written a Space marine list with the intention of tabling my opponent

2 replies · active 756 weeks ago

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Kirby 118p · 756 weeks ago

I'd give the Tac squads normal Rhinos but otherwise looks good. In comp terms I'd be giving this 1/5 for Australian comp but then I'd also give my Nid list a 1/5 and it got 2.2/5 iirc for my last tourney. Little black box FTW.

Let's see what some people who care about comp say :P but if you're happy to run with low comp, it's a solid list.

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fester40k 73p · 756 weeks ago

Right. Thats a 3/10 for my money.

To change it up, the Speeders need to be 2x1 and then do MM AB.
Razorbacks need to go, comp hates razorbacks.
Apart from that, its not too bad really.
Its solid, and tough.

You just need to drop the 3-of speeders I'd say
2xblah is ok
3xblah is not usually.

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Drell · 756 weeks ago

I'd give the Teleport Homer squad a drop pod with a beacon. That way they're downtown on turn 1, and you have two chances to assist deepstrikers. Cool list :)

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GS1 · 756 weeks ago

I'm curious about the idea of redundancy without spam. Now, I wouldn't call my list spam (well maybe the speeders), but say for the predators; What unit can I really replace one of them with to achieve the same role?

2 replies · active 756 weeks ago

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fester40k 73p · 756 weeks ago

I have been thinking of this lately myself...

5 Sternguard, 2 Lascannons in a Rhino
5 Devs, 2 Missiles in a Rhino
?

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Kirby 118p · 756 weeks ago

Basically. This is where the only weakness really of SM comes through, Heavy Support. Outside of dakka preds they jsut don't have top notch opitmal considerations. Everything else is usable to an extent and Devs are obviously the least glaring in weaknesses (just overcosted) and they provide the most flexibility in comparison to a Dakka Pred.

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Jason · 756 weeks ago

I do like devastators. Unfortunately having played Space Wolves since second edition I tend to compare them to Long Fangs and then it becomes a "I get that for how many points?" Okay, they are still cheaper than the Long Fangs in the third edition codex, five devs plus four missiles being 170 points if I remember correctly.

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stillfrosty · 755 weeks ago

Marine Devastators are fine. Yes they are a little more pricey for less shots, but they get the job done.

As far as comp is concerned, I am battling with the same rules for an upcoming event. I have never played a tournament where comp was a part of the event, or even a significant apart of it. Personally from how I under stand it, the more troops the better. Redundancy is okay unless its over three units. Don't take optimum tac squad set ups. Mix it up and the judges will not hammer you.

Because I am curious, what event are you going to?