Woohoo! My first Army List critique! I got this email in from Xanadu and I figured, he being an Air Cav enthusiast like myself (and having the $ to drop on such an AWESOME, but expensive Army), I'd give him my undivided attention and try to help him tweak his list a bit so he can get the most bang for his buck. I'll post my comments below in...dark green, because it's the anti-Pink :)
Hi Kirby,
After having bought a copy of IA:8 to share with a friend, I fell in love with the new Elysian army list, which allows you to run a fully mechanised Air Cavalry Army. Good man!
I intend to run a semi-fluffy yet competitive Elysian army using this list over the one found in Codex: Imperial Guard. A man after my own heart. Have you checked out the IA:8 critique I did back in June? It had a few basic list ideas in it which could help you out in figuring out what "style" of Air Cav you want with the Elysians.
I am a UK resident and my local meta plays mainly marines and daemons at 1.5K and the 2K point levels and I have a list that can be expanded to the 2K level, but I want to not be construed as an A-hat for having developed such a list.
What I would like is feedback on this list, and any improvements that you think I can make on it before I go dropping £300 on resin soldiers.
First up, the 1500 point Elysian Air Cavalry List:
Elysian Company Command Squad: 115pts
w/ Melta, Medi-pack, Carapace Armour
Good so far, fairly standard. If you could scrounge the points, I'd recommend any of the following: Homing Beacon, Aux GL's, and an Officer of the Fleet always nice additions if you have points. They aren't necessary but they add a little something extra. Caveat though: the Homing Beacon i very situational and should only really be purchased if you plan on running your CCS aggressively and having him start off on the board and possibly Scout move / turbo boost early on to guarantee your first turn drops come in damn accurate. Downside of this strategy is if you're not going first or have the Initiative stolen from you, your CCS has it's ass hanging in the breeze. Decide what you want your strategy to be for the CCS and upgrade as needed.
Storm Trooper Squad: 121pts
w/ Extra member, melta, Power weapon
Storm Trooper Squad: 121pts
w/ Extra member, melta, power weapon
ST's are eh. I've never really been sold on them in Air Cav lists b/c: a). they're more expensive; b). They get less goodies than the Vet Squad; c). They're not as tactically flexible as a Vet Squad. Here's how I view them: if you want a suicide melta delivery team Suicide Special Weapons Teams or Suicide Tri-Melta Vet teams do it better. Truly the only bonus they have is the Airborne Assault Special ops rule, but this can be mitigated for the Army as a whole with Command Homing Beacons or Vets with Homing Beacons. If you don't mind dropping them, we can use those 242 points to get another Vet Squad and bolster the ones you have already.
Elysian Veterans: 125pts [Note 2]
w/ Melta, Flamer, Demolitions
Valkyrie: 100pts [Note 3]
Elysian Veterans: 125pts
w/ Melta, Flamer, Demolitions
Elysian Veterans: 125pts
w/ Melta, Flamer, Demolitions
Valkyrie: 100pts
Fairly solid set up. My only question is why not fully utilize the Vets abilities for three SW's? As for mixed loadouts, I use to be a hardcore "three of the same weapon" in Air Cav vet squads, but Dethtron turned me on to the use of 2X Meltas and a Flamer (or Heavy Flamer if you have the points). This loadout is solid as you can still pop vehicles like a champ, can still assault if you so choose, and can toast some hordes if they come close. Personal preference is for Shotguns on these guys as they'll be close to the enemy (usually) and maintaining the tactical flexibility to assault (rather than be assaulted) is key. Downside of such an upgrade is that you can't use some of the cool Commands (mainly First Rank Fire...Second Rank Fire), which does come in hand when you're staring down an impending assault. The choice between Shotguns/Lasguns is up to you though. I DO recommend getting some Aux GL models though, for eventually you'll want them in your Vet Squads. It's always nice having an emergency backup to taking out light vehicles or higher T bad guys if need be. Also nice are Lascutters: they're 5pts cheaper than a PF for the Sergeant, but are S9 vs. his S6. Granted it's a one hit wonder, but having a hidden Super-Fist in the squad is always nice.
As an aside, what's your Valkyrie loadout on these two squads? I'm assuming bog standard Hellstrikes and Multi-Las. If so, it works ONLY because your Vulture can do the anti-horde Rocket Podding Doom Carrier better. This is normally against what I'd advise for a Valk loadout using C:IG, but then again C:IG doesn't get Vultures :)
Vendetta: 130pts
Vendetta: 130pts
Vendetta: 130pts
Nice and standard. Solid and needs no changes.
Vulture: 170pts [Note 1]
w/ Twin-linked Lascannon, Multiple Rocket Pods, IR Targeting
or Punisher Cannons, Flare/chaff launcher, IR Targeting
Ahh the Vulture. I'm from the old IA:3 school of thought which says "Elysian Troops kill vehicles; Elysian Vehicles kill troops". The reason being, if you look at it that way, most Elysian vehicles (with the exception of the Vendetta and Venator) can be fitted to take on vehicles or troops equally well and at around the same cost. This taken with the fact that most of your infantry/Troops are packing meltas and other tank busting weapons (in addition to the TLLC's of Vendettas and Venators), you have ample Long and Short range AT. What lacks is AP, ergo why I like to fit Vultures with the Quad Multiple Rocket Pods. That bad boy flies around laying down 4 large blast templates (the equivalent of 2 Valkyries with MRPs) and scares hordes (or really anything T4 and lower). So I'd say drop the TLLC on the Vulture (as you're mixing Genres: an AT weapon and a AP weapon. With vultures it's best to go one way or the other: 4X MRPs or TLLC and 6X HK missiles.) and pick up 2X more MRPs. As for the upgrades, I've never found a need for IR or Chaff. Chaff is nice on paper and is reasonably priced, but personally I'd drop 10 more points and get Armored Crew Compartments, as being able to ignore Shaken/Stunned is HUGE on fliers and skimmers. It means the only real reliable way the enemy can shut down your movement or shooting is to actually kill you. As for the Punisher cannon, never used it but I think in comparison to the Quad MRP load, it's weaker. You can hit and inflict more wounds with four large blast templates than with 20 rounds of Punisher fire (which since you're BS3, can reasonably expect around 10-12 hits average.)
1497pts
Note 1: The option of punisher cannons or lascannon/ MRP on the Vulture is so I can have either a horde shredder or another dedicated tank hunter alongside the three Vendettas.
Note 2: The Loadouts on the Vets are plastic, and are the area where I feel the least confident - giving each squad a Melta and a flamer seemed to make them able to multi-task but I am unsure of whether this is a good option.
Note 3: I would be happy to remove the Valkyrie on a Vets Squad in favour of a few more Meltas in the vet squads and a homing beacon on the Command Squad.
.... And at 2000 points....
Elysian Company Command Squad: 115pts
w/ Melta, Medi-pack, Carapace Armour
Same as above
Storm Trooper Squad: 121pts
w/ Extra member, melta, Power weapon
Storm Trooper Squad: 121pts
w/ Extra member, melta, Power weapon
Valkyrie: 100pts
Same as above for these two
Elysian Veterans: 125pts
w/ Melta, Flamer, Demolitions
Valkyrie: 100pts
Elysian Veterans: 125pts
w/ Melta, Flamer, Demolitions
Elysian Veterans: 125pts
w/ Melta, Flamer, Grenadiers
Valkyrie: 100pts
Elysian Veterans: 125pts
w/ Melta, Flamer, Grenadiers
Valkyrie: 100pts
Same as above for these guys. After this I'll show you what we can play around with if we drop one or both of the ST squads.
Vendetta: 130pts
Vendetta: 130pts
Vendetta: 130pts
Same as above
Vulture: 170pts
w/ Twin-linked Lascannon, Multiple Rocket Pods, IR
or Punisher Cannons, Flare/chaff launcher, IR
Vulture: 170pts
w/ Twin-linked Lascannon, Multiple Rocket Pods, IR
or Punisher Cannons, Flare/chaff launcher, IR
Hahah and same as above
Same as above applies really....
So, can you make any suggestions to improve this list?
Many thanks,
Xanadu
Alrighty! Now that we've gone over some basic points, let's play around with those ST's. If you're dead set on keeping them, then drop the one extra guy and free up 32pts, as he's pretty useless. Go bare bones, and use those 32pts to either:
1). Add a Vox to your Command HQ Squad, and an additional Melta to each ST Squad
or
2). Add a Vox to your Command HQ Squad and an Additional Melta in each Vet Squad.
Now if you want to drop those ST's entirely, that'll free up 242pts, so you're 1500pt list is now at 1255pts. Before we ad anything new, let's tweak what we've got, starting with the Vulture.
Vulture: 170pts [Note 1]
w/ Twin-linked Lascannon, Multiple Rocket Pods, IR Targeting
or Punisher Cannons, Flare/chaff launcher, IR Targeting
Let's drop the TLLC and add in another MRP instead. That makes it:
Vulture: 180pts [Note 1]
w/ Multiple Rocket Pods, Multiple Rocket Pods, IR Targeting
And this takes our total to 1265pts. Ok, let's upgrade those Vet Squads now and let's try this:
Elysian Veterans: 135pts [Note 2]
w/ 2X Melta, Flamer, Demolitions
Valkyrie: 100pts [Note 3]
Elysian Veterans: 135pts
w/ 2X Melta, Flamer, Demolitions
Elysian Veterans: 135pts
w/ 2X Melta, Flamer, Demolitions
Valkyrie: 100pts
Bringing us to 1295pts. Nice! We've got a solid 200pts now to play with. Let's add in another Vet squad:
Elysian Veterans: 150pts
w/ 2X Melta, Heavy Flamer, Demolitions
Ok we've got 55 points left to play with. Let's get some Aux GL's and some Lascutters. We will give each squad an LC (-40pts), leaving us 15pts left. Why, that's exactly enough for 5 Aux GLs!
Let's give the CCS a Aux GL, and each Vet Squad gets one giving us exactly 1500pts and the following list:
Elysian Company Command Squad: 118pts
w/ Melta, Medi-pack, Carapace Armour, Aux GL
Elysian Veterans: 148pts [Note 2]
w/ 2X Melta, Flamer, Demolitions, Aux GL, Lascutter
Valkyrie: 100pts [Note 3]
Elysian Veterans: 148pts
w/ 2X Melta, Flamer, Demolitions, Aux GL, Lascutter
Elysian Veterans: 148pts
w/ 2X Melta, Flamer, Demolitions, Aux GL, Lascutter
Valkyrie: 100pts
Elysian Veterans: 163pts
w/ 2X Melta, Heavy Flamer, Demolitions, Aux GL, Lascutter
Vendetta: 130pts
Vendetta: 130pts
Vendetta: 130pts
Vulture: 180pts [Note 1]
w/ Multiple Rocket Pods, Multiple Rocket Pods, IR Targeting
Total: 1495
That's basically it. At the 2K level you can add another Vulture and Veteran Squad, and you'd have the points to spare for a ST squad. To keep with your initial ideas, here's what it could look like at 2000:
Elysian Company Command Squad: 118pts
w/ Melta, Medi-pack, Carapace Armour, Aux GL
Storm Trooper Squad: 147pts
w/ 2X Extra members, 2X Melta, Power weapon
Elysian Veterans: 151pts [Note 2]
w/ 2X Melta, Flamer, Demolitions, 2X Aux GL, Lascutter
Valkyrie: 100pts [Note 3]
Elysian Veterans: 151pts
w/ 2X Melta, Flamer, Demolitions, 2X Aux GL, Lascutter
Elysian Veterans: 151pts
w/ 2X Melta, Flamer, Demolitions, 2X Aux GL, Lascutter
Valkyrie: 100pts
Elysian Veterans: 166pts
w/ 2X Melta, Heavy Flamer, Demolitions, 2X Aux GL, Lascutter
Elysian Veterans: 166pts
w/ 2X Melta, Heavy Flamer, Demolitions, 2X Aux GL, Lascutter
Vendetta: 130pts
Vendetta: 130pts
Vendetta: 130pts
Vulture: 180pts [Note 1]
w/ Multiple Rocket Pods, Multiple Rocket Pods, IR Targeting
Vulture: 180pts [Note 1]
w/ Multiple Rocket Pods, Multiple Rocket Pods, IR Targeting
Total: 2000
Another choice at 2000 instead of using the ST's, save those 147pts and get another Valkyrie Dedicated Transport. In summary, let's go over both lists:
1500pts: 4X Scoring units, 9X Meltas, 5X Aux GLs (for emergencies), 4X Demo Charges, 4X Lascutters (or Super-Fists), 3X Flamers, 1X Heavy Flamer, 9X TLLC (on 3 separate platforms), 4X Large blast templates at S4, and 6 AV12 Fast Moving Skimmers.
2000pts: 5X Scoring Units, 13X Meltas, a Suicide Melta ST Squad (if we REALLY want them to be suicidal, I'd drop the PW and 2X extra bodies giving you 42pts to play around with elsewhere), 11X Aux GL's, 3X Flamers, 2X Heavy Flamers, 9X TLLC (on 3 separate platforms), 8X Large blast templates at S4 (on 2 separate platforms), 7 AV12 Fast Moving Skimmers (this can be upgraded to 8 Skimmers if we drop the ST squad).
6 AV12 Fast Skimmers at 1500pts has a pretty big scare effect, as does 7-8 at 2000pts, especially since none of them are in squadrons and can fly about independently. So long as they move flat out until the last moment (to drop off their cargo), they should survive the massed fire aimed at them. The additional bonus of thee lists is that since the Elysians have built-in DS, you don't even need to start all your guys on board, as it may be more beneficial to have them DS on somewhere and have a vehicle race in to pick them up/provide fire support upon their arrival. It all comes down to the old Army acronym of METT-TC which will dictate how you want to play your Air Cav, and whether you want/need Homing Beacons or FO Vets. That is the beauty of this Army book (and these lists), is that with a minor change here or there, you can adjust the overall list to play differently. This is especially true with regard to the doctrines. I put all Vets as having Demo, but feel free to adjust that as you wish to do a mix of Demo, Grenadiers, and FO to find that mix and balance which works for your personal play style and which reflects METT-TC. I hope this long and exhausting overview helps and if you have any questions or comments, let me know and I will gladly go into more detail or answer anything which may be confusing, or if you want to know why I chose one thing over something else.
