GWvsJohn talks Dark Eldar: Bonus Round

Saturday, October 23, 2010

GWvsJohn talks Dark Eldar: Bonus Round

Posted by Anonymous

Don't have time to write a full review post, but I wanted to get some things I've been pondering out there. Before we start, what do people want for my next review? Elites, FA, HS or Special Characters? Any particular units you wanna hear me ramble about? Let me know in the comments.

So, onto the article. I played a small 1000 point tester on Vassal yesterday and have also been reading any DE thoughts I can find in the blog-o-sphere (even BoLS, the horror). I want to point out VT2's amazing "meta" post, which I'm sure you all have read, but you should read it again. I've come to the following realizations:

Venoms are good, like really good. 12 4+ poison at 36" is amazing. That will force, on average, 4 saves on ANY unit in the game. 2 Venoms will, on average, force a Ld check on a marine squad every turn, at 36" range. That's just sick.

I think Wracks should always be run as a 5 man unit. The fact that they start with a pain token and they get 1 per 5 special means that 2x5 Wracks > 1x10 Wracks. Split into 2 squads, you can donate a pain token to your Archon, bring 2 transports (both of which are very good, and appropriately priced) and still have your T4, FNP squad to camp objectives.

Taking the first 2 points, I think 5 Wracks, Liquifier Gun, Venom, extra Splinter Cannon will be a staple in most competitive DE builds. 125 points for a T4 scoring unit, a free pain token and amazing anti-troop firepower at range and up close. 2 of these squads sitting in your backfield add so much to an army it's ridiculous.

I've changed my mind on the Warrior heavy debate. It's Cannon all the time, every time. Being able to double tap from the "safety" of your Raider is really, really good. Warriors are not a backfield unit (see above for your camper squad). They want to get into midfield and start dropping 20 4+ poison shots while moving 6" and also firing a Dark lance. I'd still always bring the Blaster because a) sometimes you only have hard targets b) it IDs T4 and c) the Shredder is really bad.

Trueborns are going to be the most important unit in the book. They just have sooo many options. The 4 Blaster squad that I'm sure you've all heard of can put a hurt on anything, but a double Dark Lance squad in a Venom sitting in the back puts out crazy firepower, is pretty cheap and demands attention (allowing your CC squads a little extra room to advance).

Everyone loves Dark Eldar speed, but I think their range is what is really amazing. 36" on Dark Lances and Splinter Cannons is really good, especially since they stay mobile. Their main special has 18" range compared to 12 (and really 6) for SM and Eldar.

Flickerfields are really good. They are a must-include on every vehicle. Remember, it's a 5+ invul, meaning ti works in CC. Combined with their speed, Dark Eldar vehicles are almost immune to assault.

I really can't wait until everyone out there can fully dissect and WAAC out this book.

Comments (23)

Logging you in...

Dashboard | Edit profile | Logout

Logged in as

+3 Vote up Vote down

VT2 79p · 756 weeks ago

Put shields on everything.
Now people can't reach you with heavy bolters and missilepods, and NEED to move to engage you - or put in their heavier firepower to tackle you. Essentially, you control the game. With one upgrade.

Yeah.

Objective camping is also available for huge warrior squads with dual lances and haem for feel no pain.
Amazing how open, lovely, and full of options this book, isn't it?

1 reply · active 756 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

GWvsJohn 44p · 756 weeks ago

Interesting. I hadn't considered fully how PfP affects the big camper warrior squad. Haemmy can start with the squad, leave his pain token and bring his LG (or shatter, crucible, whatever) into a transport with room.

0 Vote up Vote down

Sorrowshrd · 756 weeks ago

mm, I look forward to contributing my share to the WAAC fest ,just need to get some time to play on vassal . got some imminent proxy games with my mechdar in a couple of days .
http://rant1nem1n0r.blogspot.com/

+1 Vote up Vote down

brentinKorea · 756 weeks ago

I would like to hear more about the best way to kill them. Thanks.

8 replies · active 756 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Anonymous · 756 weeks ago

I would think mech guard could do that really well with their long range and many tanks.

A list would be something like

3*2 hydras 450pts
3*2 sentinels with multi laser 210pts - the multi laser has some wicked duality against dark eldar since it is really dangerous to most infantry and tanks. Another upside is that the dark eldars besic infantry can not hurt it due to having strength x weapons.

Objective holders

CC with officer of the fleet, las cannon - if you face an army that have Av 13-14 and does not want to rely on out flanking sentinels and melta
Chimera, Multi laser, heavy bolter. 155pts

2* infantry squad with autocannon
Chimera, Multi laser, heavy bolter. 230pts

Objective grabbers

2* infantry squads with flamer
Chimera, Multi laser, heavy flamer 220pts

2* platoon commands squads 3 melta
Chimera, Multi laser, heavy flamer 230 pts

that's 1485

To fill out the army you can get: 2* vets with melta (or grenade launchers, since meltas vs. night shield vehicles that move 12" and shoot is kind of hard. Melta is however much better against virtually every other army). More sentinels/hydras but that makes them more unwieldy and susceptible to ravagers. Psyker squads for increased anti inf? Very many hunter killer missiles?

The problems with this list is that it is a bit slow and that 13 chimera chassis + 6 sentinels can lead to some clogging. You could out flank the sentinels (at least they have 36" range). Vendettas would fill an important hole in this list against non-DE armies but they are to much of an obvious target . The upside is that 19 vehicles in 1500 pts is increadibly difficult to kill. It also put out a respectable mid strength firepower.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Kirby 118p · 756 weeks ago

19 tanks and T3 infantry. That's the way to stop DE lol <3

+1 Vote up Vote down

Anonymous · 756 weeks ago

DE has good anti tank and good anti inf. I think that they generally excel more in anti inf however. But having a fully mechnised army provides substantial target saturation. The poor souls removed from their metal bawkses will probably die horribly, but it is preferable to be in a metal bawks and die if/when it is opened than to just die directly. T3 is not a big deal since almost all DE anti inf are posioned any way. In CC it matters but I do not think the DE-player would want to leave their infantry exposed to this list either.

In a match up a DE list would have an advantage in mobility and infantry that can do stuff, but this list would have durability and firepower. ( 14 auto cannons(mostly t-l), 9 heavy bolters, 13 multi lasers, 1 las cannon. That is on average ~20 pen, 10 glances against AV 10. Due to flicker fields, mobility disadvantage, enemy shooting, etc. maybe 30% of these shots will be fired/get through. If so it will still be enough to down 5 vehicles.) [mathhammer, I know =)]

In general terms an obvious counter to DE is units with lots of long range mid strength firepower(5-7) since it can hurt both their tanks and remove FNP from their infantry. Due to the impressive fire power of DE they have to be durable or cheap so you can take a lot of them. The options here are usually infantry (lootas/devastators) which are (too) susceptible to mass splinter fire from venoms and other sources or tanks(riflemans, dakka preds, hydras, chimeras, sentinels, war walkers, vypers, etc.).
Usually the light tanks are themselves susceptible to mid strength firepower but dark eldar is somewhat lacking in that department. They have very good heavy anti tank though, which can be used at these targets as well. The main difference is that you can usually get more or shootier light tanks for the same points. And the faction that I think does this best is IG, mostly since they can get more of these tanks than other factions. Eldar with wave serpents vypers and war walkers(lol) or Vanilla marines mech spam might do roughly the same thing.

For a TAC-army you would be a bit short on melta/ lascannons.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Kirby 118p · 756 weeks ago

I was agreeing with you.

DE have advantages against armies which rely upon tough troops (i.e. T5+) as their poison ignores this. DE have general advantages against foot lists as they can put down a crap down of anti-infantry firepower and unless you have FNP, you're a sad panda (so Tyranids have both pros and cons but BA foot works a bit better than non pure TDA Loganwing but Loganwing has tremendous range and firepower, etc.). DE has good anti-tank with heat lances, DL, blasters, void lances, etc but has minimal suppression firepower (i.e. no massive amounts of S6-7 firepower) so mech spam has advantages in that it can overwhelm DE anti-tank, etc. etc.

0 Vote up Vote down

Anonymous · 756 weeks ago

lol, internet

+1 Vote up Vote down

abusepuppy 121p · 756 weeks ago

Chimeras always want ML/HF.

I would swap the Melta duty to the CCS; BS4 is really important when you're making a suicide attack run. PCS can either go on AC/Sniper duty or 4x Flamer.

Infantry Squads should probably all be AC (+Sniper if you can afford it.)

Other than that is probably fine. Not over-specialized, but definitely a bit short on ability to kill heavy tanks.

0 Vote up Vote down

willydstyle · 756 weeks ago

I disagree, to a point. Infantry squads with heavy weapons should have a heavy bolter, that way their pillbox can simply rotate in the back-field, and their chimera does a fine job mopping up the last one or two space marines that your heavier firepower leaves behind. Chimeras for vets and various command squads should have the heavy flamer, because they're going to be projecting their presense "forward" anyways.

+1 Vote up Vote down

abusepuppy 121p · 756 weeks ago

The Flamer gives you a "surprise" backfield firepower than DSers, outflankers, etc, can't afford to ignore, and compared to the extra plinking that a Heavy Bolter brings it's much, much more valuable- not to mention sacrificial tank -> flamer spam shenanigans, etc. The HB isn't horrible, but it's pretty clearly an inferior option in my mind.

0 Vote up Vote down

Brodrick · 756 weeks ago

I can say after test game today killing 5 wracks in cover takes too many shots to really worry about.

+2 Vote up Vote down

chumbalaya 79p · 756 weeks ago

Wracks are basically Plaguebearers that can buy transports. Yay.

1 reply · active 756 weeks ago

+4 Vote up Vote down

Kirby 118p · 756 weeks ago

And they can punch shit in combat.

0 Vote up Vote down

Mizzrym · 756 weeks ago

Well I guess I'll be the first to put forth what I'd like to see and that's Elites, followed by Fast Attack. There's so many good choices in the elites slot (kinda reminiscent of the nids book there), and there's things in FA that I'd like to see how they're better used than maybe what I'm thinking.

0 Vote up Vote down

Evanthenoob · 756 weeks ago

I haven't seen how it plays out, but it seems that IG are going to be the bane of Dark Eldar - sure you can get there fast and put out alot of poisoned shots, but the troops care less about poison (being T3), you can rock too many autocannon/multilaser/heavy flamer/big templates for T3 FNP to matter and the DE dark lances will be overwhelmed with AV12 spam.

0 Vote up Vote down

Joe G · 756 weeks ago

So a question, after I read through the codex some. Is there anything that prevents "disembarked" units from an exploded vehicle assaulting that turn? Let's say you have a raider with the shock prow that moves flat out and rams a vehicle, we'll say a transport. Assume you pop the transport with your probable S10 hit (3 + 8 - 24" move/3), but also roll a 6 on the chart for your own vehicle. Let's also assume your unit passes the pinning test, and doesn't die horribly when the vehicle explodes. Can you then run + assault? I didn't see anything in the book, but may have missed it.

3 replies · active 756 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

abusepuppy 121p · 756 weeks ago

Seems kosher to me. I really, really wouldn't try that stunt unless I was pretty desperate, but it does seem legal. (Since the DE transports are open-topped, I believe you could also disembark after a ramming attempt that _didn't_ destroy you and then assault. I would have to double-check the ram/tank shock rules to be sure, though, don't recall if there's a disembarkation prohibition there.

...Whoa. "Disembarkation Prohibition" might just be the name for my new RB3 band.

0 Vote up Vote down

Joe G · 756 weeks ago

You can't "disembark" after moving flat out. So if you did the 24" (36"?) cross table barrage turn 1, and somehow survive, you don't get to assault. In addition, since you can't "disembark", a wrecked result is equally terrible. Disembark is in quotes as I'm referring to the specific game term, and not the general meaning at all.

I agree that it's a fairly high gamble. But when you absolutely must kill that land raider...well, 5 pts turns all your skimmers into improved hk/seeker missiles.

0 Vote up Vote down

Joe G · 756 weeks ago

hm, and I think if the vehicle has flickerfields, you'd get the save as well...interesting. So, in theory, you bring lots of venoms with the shock prow upgrade, and let's say night fields. Against a heavy mech army, you could suicide some to force your opponent to deal with either the infantry inside (wyches? wracks? I'm thinking wracks) or the rather damaging venoms themselves. Hopefully you've popped a couple transports with the stunt, and you're still advancing with the other venoms/raiders. And your other venoms will be able to lay down some hurt on those newly disembarked enemy.

0 Vote up Vote down

The black cat · 756 weeks ago

Hello, great reviews!
But instead of a analyse of Elite, Fast, or Heavy support I would love to see a more overal army build possibilities, which units work the best together and how can a ballenced army be created in the up to 1750 point range?

Grtz
The black cat