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Wednesday, October 13, 2010
Standardisation in Tournaments: Why it's necessary
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This is a follow-up to the recent Conquest Toronto review and focuses primarly on objective missions but applies to all aspects of tournaments. It's really simple: the less random everything in a tournament is outside of the players' actual armies, the better. This means set number of objectives, set objective size, missions without random factors (unless they are included in the rulebook, i.e. reserves), etc. One of the major issues for Conquest's missions were random factors such as searching in terrain for artifacts. It's great for narration but has nothing to do with player skill. Why not roll a bunch of dice and see who get's a 6 first? Okay, you get an extra 6 battle points. Obviously the missions are mildly more complex than this but they will favor some armies over others and are inherently random. Here's the kicker to most random factors in tournaments and tournament missions: they do not seperate general skill level.
Remember, most tournaments which strive to actually produce valid results (i.e. NOVA, Centurion) are attempting to pit the best players against the best players in a dog eat dog world where only the doggiest of them all wins (and there is no weighting of scores based on comp, etc.). It is very unlikely in these type of W/L systems that the overall winner will not have played at least one if not more good players. To win these types of tournaments it is therefore very likely you are going to actually have to beat good players. No draws, no battle-point victories, beat. If the missions these sorts of tournaments used were based on random factors like digging up artifacts or a random number of objectives which could benefit one side of the table, etc., the results are not valid because game alterting factors were not in the player's control. If Player A has 3 objectives on their side and Player B has 2 objectives on their side and Player A wins, Player B was at a disadvantage based on something out of their control but within control of the tournament organiser.
What a tournament and tournament missions aim to do (assuming they are persuing valid results) is create missions which are completely and utterly balanced where it is the difference in general skill level which decides the outcome of the game. This is why the 5x5 system with 5 objectives, 1 per quarter and 1 in the middle (which are all the same size, not the some 25mm and some 40mm crap) works. Whilst it adds a tactical complexity in being able to appropriately identify and pick what your opponent's KPs should be, no matter where each army deploys (unless you screw it up) there will be an equal number of objectives within range for each army. Same with table quarters and limiting KP to 5. Rather than random mission rules like night fight ending on a 4+, objectives deep-striking or random number of objectives and allowing player placement (I do enjoy this aspect but it does lead to lopsided tables on occasion which for a tournament is bad), needing to search for artifacts, protect/kill HQs, etc. is different from game to game and army to army. This. Is. Bad.
Again, if a tournament wants valid results the winner needs to be determined on differences of general skill level as much as possible. Sure this means Player A with skill level 100 can lose to Player B with skill level 90 and thus not be able to win the tournament but Player B and A know it was based on player skill (or dice rolls) rather than the missions which produced this result. If a tournament is aiming for valid results, this is a must. By providing every single gamer with the exact same mission parameters (and providing the information well before hand) which are not going to change based on dice rolls, the end results are as much based on general skill as possible (assuming equal list strength which if running competitive lists should be true).
So what does this mean for aspiring TO's? Well Mike from Whiskey & 40k has already done a bang-up job in doing most of the development for this type of format and missions like those used at NOVA and being play-tested for Centurion emphasis this. I know what mission parameters are being played by everyone at the tournament at any given time and I know this well before the tournament even begins. This is why I jumped up and down on fester to change the final mission being randomly rolled for. A tournament wants all randomness to be based on initial pairings (and if there was a reliable way to rank players, this should disappear, too) and then be based completely on general skill level and dice rolls. This means other people can point to the tournament and go these armies/players are good/bad because everyone was dealing with the same parameters. It will take a large amount of tournaments like this to determine who's good and bad and what armies are good and bad (sample size issues) but for this to even be possible, standardisation needs to occur within a tournament. If a tournament is not aiming for that, then who cares. Go for narration and random missions, etc. But overall, the less random a tournament the better in terms of valid results and determining who the best generals are.
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Standardisation in Tournaments: Why it's necessary
2010-10-13T00:59:00+11:00
Unknown
Analysis|Tournaments|
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GWvsJohn · 760 weeks ago
VT2 79p · 760 weeks ago
MSU is king in all games, no matter what.
The book missions, especially, favor MSU. Always.
Kirby 118p · 760 weeks ago
As I said, I love placing objectives just like I enjoy picking KP as it adds another tactical element to the game but as a tournament organiser, if you want valid results, placing objectives beforehand gives you this because if you use random objectives and even if you have good players, when you get an odd number there is very likely to be a lopsided result of objectives in terms of board placement.
Kirby 118p · 760 weeks ago
Yes, the mission books are from the book but are poor for tournament use. DoW/C&C = automatic draw a lot of the time. Odd number objectives in Seize = lopsided boards, etc. Centurion/NOVA missions stick as closely to possible as the BRB missions but standardise them which IMO is good. I'm sure there are improvements or 'upgrades' which could be made but they are a sight better than the BRB missions and a lot of the missions proposed by other tournaments.
I've also never thought sitting in your deployment box and blowing you off the board was part of 5th. That was 4th. Tau are probably the only ones which emphasis this but even then you've got mobility options.
@KatieDrake · 760 weeks ago
SageoftheTimes 77p · 760 weeks ago
Egge · 760 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 760 weeks ago
fester40k 73p · 760 weeks ago
Eltnot 45p · 760 weeks ago
Set terrain setups - Bad
I don't want to play on the same tables everytime. It's boring, it's not fun, and just means that you'll get people saying "I hate this map" like they do in online games.
Fixed objective deployment - Bad
Placing objectives smartly is a skill and you're removing that. Appreciating how your opponent's army works and then placing the objective to maximise your strengths and increase his weaknesses is a good thing. If you're worried about it, make the amount of objectives placed an even number.
Random effects in missions - good to an extent.
Just when you have a bad turn of dice rolls, a good player is able to roll with the punches. Having some randomness in there keeps things interesting and players can interact more with the mission making it more enjoyable. It shouldn't be overdone and game breaking though. Good mission design is important to keep things fair.
fester40k 73p · 760 weeks ago
As for the other 2, I disagree.
Objectives:
If I run a full bike army, you get to place 3/5 objectives and they all go in terrain, how is that fair, competitive, or fun for me, when the table next to me they are all in the open?
I understand it's a skill, but its something that I have abused as a player before, putting the objectives in places where my opponent just will not be able to get to (and yes, I won that game though i was all-but tabled).
Random Effects:
In an event designed to work out the tactical ability of the general and army, having something crazy happen and shift the game isn't good.
Sure, the better general will adapt, but if they are equal general's, the one with the better result luck will win, which leaves a sour taste.
Each to their own, and you and I will have this argument again and again ;)
Kirby 118p · 760 weeks ago
Otherwise +1 to what fester said. With random mission effects, a poor general can win 6 games because of lucky mission effects and versusing other poor players who are more likely to get through because of random mission effects and therefore win the tournament whilst a good player may get shafted in a single game and therefore not be able to win. If that happened to me, I'd be pissed because it had nothing to do with me. If 40k bores you and you need to "make it more enjoyable", that's fine, don't do it at a tournament like NOVA or Centurion where general ability determines the overall winner. Again, those types of missions can be great for narratives or campagins or fun with friends, not for tournaments.
RagingDragon · 728 weeks ago
Kirby 118p · 760 weeks ago
In the end, when you want general skill to decide who wins as much as possible, the more standardisation in terms of missions, the better.