"Hey Kirby,
Great site and probly the biggest collection of BA jumper lists I have found yet. I've been contemplating starting a BA army, but I want something unique. Sooooo jumpers it is. Around here we play 2500 most of the time. Here's what I'm working with:
HQ
Librarian- Blood Lance and Shield
Sanguinor
Honor Guard 1 - Fist, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw, Flamer, 4 Storm Shields
Honor Guard 2 - Fist, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw, Meltagun, 4 Storm Shields
Elite
Sang Priest X3
Sang Guard - Fist, 4 Glaives, 2 Infernus Pistols, 3 Angelus Boltguns, Banner
Troops
4 Squads of 10 with: Sgt - Hand Flamer, Thunder Hammer
2 Melta Gunners
Since every list I've seen on the net has VV's in it, I'm considering them, but for some reason they just don't do it for me. Having 2 squads of HG w/SS's should work to screen well. I know the TH's may not be the best buy, but the added benefit against vehicles could prove helpful and tbh I think they look sweet on a JP model. Anyways, what do you think?
Thanks,
Will" The VV don't only add SS, they allow assaults on the deep-strike which is important for clearing bubble-wraps. If you don't want to take them that's okay but you will have trouble against people throwing useless units at you for an extra turn as you can't tie up defensive units early on. This will cause problems against Hybrid IG, Tyranids and Tau lists. Other than that there are a few changes we can make.
Four troops is too many but their setups are fine (I agree on the TH, they look plain awesome...lol); we'll drop one of those. 3x Priests + 2x HG is excessive in terms of FNP/FC bubbles even if the HG are going to be in assault a lot so we can drop a Priest (I'm assuming they all have JP? You didn't specify) which gives us 325 points to play with. We can also drop the Banner off the SG squad. It's a nice bonus but more squads is better in the end. Also, Sanguinor isn't needed. He's okay but not really needed. Replacing him with another Libby is a good idea and saves a bunch of points. With these points you easily have enough points for a couple of VV squads if you'd like otherwise we'll add in another SG squad (and can potentially add in a VV squad) with a similar setup and add in some more weapons on the HG such as meltaguns and LClaws.
What these changes do is keep your melta levels the same but adds more combat prowess with the SG and potentially more weapons on the HG. I think I'd prefer adding in SG + VV but points may be tight. However, even just one squad on the drop can help deny bubble-wrap units from really affecting your army which could delay your real punch until T3/4 rather than T2/3.
Logging you in...
Kuolema · 753 weeks ago
The storm shields are a secondary role on the VV, you want a way to stop super units from killing off all your FnP marines and invulnerable saves are the best way to do that. In a pure jumper list you have two choices for to put SS on, your honor guard or your VV. While honor guard can certainly work both kirby and I prefer them as melta gun platforms since they can take the most melta per squad in a pure jumper list, so if your honor guard are avoiding combat to go pew pew you don't really want to throw them into combat with your opponents dangerous CC units. But your VV on the other hand want to be in combat from the turn they drop which works perfectly with holding up dangerous CC units.
As much as I hate to say it the sanguinor really isn't worth it, I seriously love the model but he just isn't worth 275 points and he is competiting with a libby that actually offers a lot more to our army. The +1 attack bubble, blessing and decent combat powers are nice but for only 125 points we can get a lance/shield libby and if you have read over kirbys jumper articles you will know how useful one lance is, a second one is just as useful. Also the way the rules are worded you can cast blood lance in your turn and shield in your opponents turn to greatly increase your marines survivability 3+ with FnP is pretty survivable to small arms fire but you still die like normal marines to missiles/plasma and the like. Two shield bubbles can cover a lot of your army and with two libbys the odds of both libbys missing the first drop is very small. Two libbys is also only 250 points so still cheaper than sanguinor.
Personally if I was going to run pure jumpers at 2500 it would look like
Libby- jump pack, lance, shield 125
Honor guard- 4 melta guns, jump packs 205
Libby- jump pack, lance, shield 125
Honor guard- 4 melta guns, jump packs 205
2 priests with jump packs 150 points
Sang guard, power fist 210 points
Sang guard, power fist 210 points
Assault squad, sgt with power fist and hand flamer, 2 meltaguns 245
Assault squad, sgt with power fist and hand flamer, 2 meltaguns 245
Assault squad, sgt with power fist and hand flamer, 2 meltaguns 245
VV, 5 storm shields, sgt with glavie 265
VV, 5 storm shields, sgt with glavie 265
Total 2495
You can drop one of the fists from the sang guard and turn all the fists on the assault marines into thunder hammers if you want but I prefer the extra fist.
Rugrud 14p · 753 weeks ago
==>> I often see glaive for VV on 3++ and don't get why... I can understand when it is for wound allocations reasons, but for a single one? Why not the lightning claws, which is better according to my calculations? (Except againt T3). Is there something i am missing?
For HG, i find it usefull to get some flamers. 2 extra flamers is only 10 points (lose a hand flamer?) and give the HH a nice duality for cheap (and marine with meltagun + flamer looks nice!).
Kirby 118p · 753 weeks ago
Rugrud 14p · 753 weeks ago
So here it is for a veteran attacking a CC4 T4 guy (results are: furious charge (+1A/+1S), charge (+1A) and still)
Lighnting claw: 1,33 / 1,13 / 0,75
Glaive: 1,29 / 0,99/ 0,69
Power weapon + pistol: 1,33 / 1/ 0.75
Against CC3/T3:
Lighnting claw: 1,9 / 1,8 /1,2
Glaive: 2,1 / 1,6 / 1,1
Power weapon + pistol: 2,2 / 1,8 /1,3
OK, that's close. OK, i was bored. But still...
Dalinair · 753 weeks ago
Kuolema · 753 weeks ago
The glavie is free and while I can see why you would rather have cheaper VV squads but what would you do with the 80 points you save?
At 2500 points I see no reason not to take sang guard, what you going to take instead? You could add more troops but 30 is enough imo.
More marines just offer more S5/I5 attacks but sang guard offer you power weapon wielding units that really increase your killing power.
Kuolema · 753 weeks ago
kelterran · 752 weeks ago
Librarian - Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius, Jump Pack (125pts)
Librarian - Blood Lance, Sanguine Sword, Jump Pack (125pts)
2X Honor Guard - 3X Melta, Jump Packs (195pts each)
2X Sanguinary Guard - 1X Powerfist, 1X Infernus Pistol (220pts each)
3X Sanguinary Priest - Powerweapon, Infernus Pistol, Jump Pack (105pts each)
2X Assault Marines - 2X Melta, Infernus Pistol, Powerfist (250pts each)
1X Assault Marines - 2X Infernus Pistol, Powerfist (155pts) - 5 models
2X Vanguard Veterans - Glaive Encarmine, 3X Stormshields (225pts each)
kelterran · 752 weeks ago
General plan would be to combat squad the two 10 man assault marines and put the three priests with each of the assault-oriented assault marines to not only spread FNP/FC but to boost the fighting ability of those units. The Librarians would probably drop with the Sanguinary Guard since that would hide them better and allow the Librarians to use the abilities the best. I know that you recommend less FNP/FC, but with players knowing that the priests are so valuable, I'm afraid that they'd get targetted and wiped out faster, so having an fifth would hopefully keep momentum going longer. Am I on the right track?
Kirby 118p · 752 weeks ago