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Tuesday, November 23, 2010

Psychic Defences: Mandatory or Not?



Psychic defence; is it really necessary? Yes and no (don’t you love me?). When available easily and with minimal cost such as Space Marine Librarians/Rune Priests or Farseers with Runes of Warding, it’s almost a case of why on earth not? Other armies like Imperial Guard, Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters have the option to do so but generally don’t and IG and WH still produce effective competitive lists. And some armies just get it for ‘free’ such as Tyranids; the lucky gribblies. Others however, have no choice. Dark Eldar, Tau, Chaos, Orks, Necrons and Daemons of Chaos are starved for anti-psyker abilities (though there are some counters, there is no stringent 4+ stops psy power, etc.). However, some of these armies are still quite capable on the battlefield and importantly one of them is brand new. What’s this mean?


Ignoring fluff and all of that crap, GW has decided to bring psychic powers back into the mainstream of 40k. Even before 5th edition got underway Orks, Chaos and Daemons of Chaos all had some hefty psychic powers related to their codex releases in comparison to what they had before. As 5th edition army books got released, it was ever apparent GW wanted psychic powers to play a role in today’s game and it seemed like a sure thing each new army would not only have access to decent psykers but decent psyker defences. DE shoved that theory out the window with no real access to either. Which brings us to the original question, is psychic defence necessary?

Psychic defence is obviously a good thing to have as it gives you a 40-50% chance of stopping some very impressive offensive and defensive abilities of the opponent. However, it is not a requirement of competitive lists as exemplified by IG, Tau, Dark Eldar and Witchunters even though both IG and Witchunters have access to psychic defence (the others have no choice). What this indicates is psychic defence is not a necessity, even when available and obviously depends on the list and army. Looking at the new Marine books all of their psyker defences come on a cheap HQ with excellent utility in being very defensive (tempest, shield, storm caller, null zone, etc.) and having some excellent offensive powers, too (avenger, lightning, blood lance, sword, etc.). Compared to the psychic defences accessible in other armies these units don’t just bring psychic defence they are a good unit in their own right.

This then comes across as psychic defence simply being a bonus for Marine (and Eldar/Tyranid) lists. The units with psychic defences are very useful in their own right but the lists would manage fine without them; rather than relying on psychic defences to defend against offensive psychic powers, there are actual tactics you can use against them. Consider competing against a BA Jumper list with a Libby and Blood Lance. Even if you have psychic defence, castling up and clumping all your tanks together is a bad idea. If that defence fails the Libby could hit more than 5 tanks with a single shot. Against Lash most people simply mech up and demand the sub-par Chaos anti-tank try and break open lots of cheap transports. Etc. There are obvious exceptions which you cannot defend against such as combat powers (i.e. warptime, sanguine sword, etc.) and you can’t really stop defensive powers (i.e. Null Zone, Shield/Storm Caller, etc.) but that’s part of 40k balance.

In the end, psychic defences are basically a bonus to an already good unit and lists are quite capable of being competitive and balanced without them. In army books which have access to good psychic defences such as Marines and Eldar, when not taking the psychic defence unit the opportunity cost of losing that must be weighed but it isn’t a clear cut “you must have psychic defence.” It’s a nice security blanket to have and can disrupt your opponent’s plans but by no means is it necessary.

Comments (27)

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A quick correction. GK and WH both have phsycic defense for free too, but the power being used has to be targeted at them. In the case of WH, they get a 5+ save against the power, while the GK have a pshycic hood type effect (IIRC).
4 replies · active 754 weeks ago
The same with Black Templars who take the Vow: "Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch." (5+ saves against targeted psychic powers).
But Abhor has an opportunity cost of taking the only actual good vow, which most BT armies rely on to do things that someone else can't just roll them at. If I recall correctly, Abhor isn't even particularly cheap, is it?
mathhammer's avatar

mathhammer · 754 weeks ago

BT take a GK with a hood and have good psychic defense
This is true, as if we take Abhor, we cannot take "Accept Any Challenge" (Preferred Enemy). However, in a lot of my lists, I actually prefer Abhor because they are not CC oriented. Or, as Mathhammer mentioned, we can take the Brother-Captain to provide a hood...but that option is soon to be taken from us so I didn't mention it.

And no, Abhor is only 20 points compared to Accept's 50 points. Second cheapest vow.
It's a bit of a red herring discussing 4e and 3e Codexes in this question, imo.
2 replies · active 754 weeks ago
Dark Eldar ain't a 3E/4E codex.

I'd also argue that 5E psyker powers are far and away better than anything that Chaos had access to in 4E, but that's a different discussion.
Tau/Chaos/Orks/Daemons/Necrons. lol

I thought it clear enough I considered DE the only valid 'lack of protection' discussion by my exclusive comment.

;)
Fitting and correct. Wise judgement and a clean display of how the things are.
Curse me for following your blog so late!
What will really be interesting is whether they name the new codex Grey Knights or Daemonhunters. If named Grey Knights, it does not necessarily / will not necessarily render the old DH dex "irrelevant," which could leave IG with 81point strong Psydefense for a while longer.

Will certainly be interesting.
2 replies · active 754 weeks ago
I find it very hard to believe that tournaments would allow the old DH codex in regardless of how the new codex was named. It'd be like me rolling in with Codex: Catachans.
It's gonna be named grey knights, and it won't have rules for allies, at all.
However, you can still ally in sisters of battle with guard and regular marines, if you want to.
mathhammer's avatar

mathhammer · 754 weeks ago

Tyranid's don't have a good defense, actually it pretty much sucks
4 replies · active 754 weeks ago
Deathleaper says hi.
mathhammer's avatar

mathhammer · 754 weeks ago

I just can't rate him as a defense.

The old 4th edition shadow in the warp was a better defense.

The new Shadow in the warp was weak in print and even weaker after the FAQ.

Also Death Leaper eats an Elite slot and that is better spent elsewhere.

Make Shadow in the Warp a 24" or 18" range and work on models in vehicles and i will say Tyranids have a decent defense.
Armies that have psykers typicall come with one, which has weak stats.
Leaper reduces the chance of getting the powers to work, and is thus very, very effective.

Stop whining about lack of psyker defense.
MeanGreen's avatar

MeanGreen · 754 weeks ago

Lol at least your horde gets SOMETHING...we orks are poor cousins AGAIN.
And is a case of "why not?". I mean, in vanilla, what else are you going to buy? Captains and Masters of the Forge modify the army (unlocking Troop Bikes and HS Dreads respectively), same with the good SC and Chapter Masters and Chaplains are crap.
4 replies · active 754 weeks ago
I would rather take a squadron of 3 multi-melta attack bikes then a librarian on a bike. The fact of the matter is that even though having the defense is nice, the character is fragile and a point sink. To make him decent he needs to be expensive, and at that point level, I would rather have Vulkan, a Second Captain, or more armor on the table. A space marine librarian is very situational.

As an aside, Chaplains have a point, but if your army is not based on assault, then you probably should not be taking one! I could actually see myself using a chaplain over a librarian in most games.

This sentiment does not apply to space wolves as their rune priest is significantly better then the space marine counterpart.
SM aren't an assault army? They have assautl units base din Command Squads on BIkes (requiring two Captains for a balanced list) and Terminators (which generally crush whatever they hit and Null Zone or Vulkan works better with these guys). How is a 100-135 pt character which provides extensive utility a point sink?

Look at a normal list which isn't focusing on Bikes, Dreads or whatever. Your choices basically are Libby, Vulkan or MotF. MotF gives some good shooting and somewhat decent combat prowess but really needs a squad to babysit (i.e. he doesn't like to sit in transports often). Vulkan gives a very particular type of list if you are using him correctly (<24" and less) and we aren't using a generic captain because well he does nothing for the army. Enter the Libby. Cheap at 100pts and provides something to the army; whether it's Null Zone, Gate, Avenger or whatever power + defense.

As was said, why not?
No, SM *can be* an assault army. Not the same.

Generally, they aren't.
A poor one at that ^^.
With nilla Marines, psychic defense is almost a no-brainer because Null Zone is almost a no-brainer. With 3++ being the new black, it's just a useful thing. The psychic defense is just the bonus you get from taking Null Zone.

It's also kind of a no-brainer with Space Pooches and Space Edwards (that's my new name for BAngels) because they have such good psychic powers that taking a librarian makes sense independent of whether you want psychic defense. The libbies are good, psychic defense is just icing.

For other armies, it's more of a toss-up. Psychic defense is great when the enemy has psykers, it's silly when they don't. So if you buy something that's exclusively for psychic defense, you may be shooting yourself in the foot in certain games. I say, always take psychic defense if it's a) cheap, or b) comes attached to something you'd want anyway (like a librarian). If it's expensive, and its only purpose is psychic defense (like a WH Inquisitor Lord) I say skip it. Psychic defense can make the difference IF you play against a heavily psychic army AND IF your psychic defense actually manages to stop the right powers at the right time. Since both are far from a guarantee, I think psychic defense is never worth a significant outlay of points just for itself.
3 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
That's the problem right there, actually. These things NEED to be one something that you are already planning on taking, otherwise you are just tailoring your lists, which is stupid. It needs to be on a platform that is useful in more then one situation, or many people aren't gonna take it.
Tick and tick.
Ah, the draw of utility. It's interesting to watch as units are made unbalanced, because hey, they have this really great situational ability, so they MUST be worth the cost, right? Utility is just that, something extra that makes the unit shine more under certain conditions, but not the end-all-be-all of the unit.
I basically never take psychic defense. Generally I use those points to make my army better at killing the enemy. Not that I don't plan for psychic enemies. I just work to mitigate their effect through gameplay. My psychic defense: Kill the psyker.

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