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Sunday, December 26, 2010

Email in: 2000 Duke Sliscus list for C&C


"So I think I've found a list I kinda like from the DE codex. Thought I'd run it past you, see what you think.

Duke Sliscus - 150

4 Kabalite Trueborn, Shardcarbine x4, Venom, Splinter Cannon x2 - 133
4 Kabalite Trueborn, 2 blaster, 2 shredder, Venom, Splinter Cannon x2 - 153
4 Kabalite Trueborn, 2 blaster, 2 shredder, Venom, Splinter Cannon x2 - 153

10 Wyches, 2 shardnets/impalers, Hekatrix with agonizer, Raider, flickerfield - 220
10 Wyches, 2 shardnets/impalers, Hekatrix with agonizer, Raider, flickerfield - 220
10 Wyches, 2 shardnets/impalers, Hekatrix with agonizer, Raider, flickerfield - 220
5 Warriors, blaster, Venom, Splinter Cannonx2 - 125
5 Warriors, blaster, Venom, Splinter Cannonx2 - 125

6 Reavers, 2 heat lances - 156

Ravager, 3 Dark Lances, flickerfield - 115
Ravager, 3 Dark Lances, flickerfield - 115
Ravager, 3 Dark Lances, flickerfield - 115

Total - 2000.

Sliscus obviously goes with the Shardcarbine Trueborn, to give them 12 poisoned (3+) shots and a spare blast pistol just in case. 5 venoms, the shardcarbines, 4 shredders, and all the wyches should give me decent anti-infantry, while 12 dark lances, 6 blasters, and 2 heat lances should be good enough for anti-tank. If I get to go first, I'll likely set up on the board and go flat out first turn, 4+ cover saves for everyone (maybe not the Ravagers), then hit hard turn two. Should my opponent go first, I can reserve and deep strike everything (save the Reavers, who can come in and turboboost anyway). Sliscus gives the Wyches (and Reavers!) rerolls on their combat drugs, so that's useful. Bleeds 21 KP, but I think most DE lists at this level are going to do that. Small Warrior Venom squads are there for objectives if need be, while Wyches go forward and take/contest others.

Comments and criticisms?

tzeentchling"


KP aren't really an issue. I like the concept but some point tweaking is needed I feel and we need to up the anti-tank as you've got a lot of anti-infantry. I think doubling the Reavers is a good idea and downing the trueborn to simple blasters and using the transport for duality. The problem then is where is the Duke really going to go? He'll end up riding with one the Trueborn squads but he's not going to be handing out his 3+ poisoned benefits but you're still getting the deployment options and combat drug re-rolls from him. If we downgrade the Reavers to Scourges we can probably fit something else in but I'd rather leave them in for the moment so we need to tweak the points to get both squads in.

We'll drop all the Trueborn to 3x3 w/3x Blaster in Venom, up the Warriors to having blast pistols (but we might need to drop these) and add in another 6x Reavers which sends us 155 points over (basically the cost of a Reaver squad). Hmm so we can split the Reavers up to 2x3 strong squads but they are pretty vulnerable to being torrented away so let's replace them with a Warrior squad which we can put the Duke into. A 10 man strong squad with Dark Lance and in a Raider gives us two lances and a couple deployment options (they can start on the ground with the Duke for example) but we're 9 points over so we'll drop a flickerfield from one of the Wych Raiders which will need to be screened or going flat-out. This gives us:

Duke
3x3x Trueborn w/3x blasters, Venom w/2x cannons
2x10x Wyches w/2x shardnets, Agoniser, Raider w/flickerfield
1x10x Wyches w/2x shardnets, Agoniser, Raider
2x5x Warriors w/blasters, Venom w/2x cannons
10x Warriors w/DL, Raider
3x Ravager w/flickerfield

Totals: 1999 points
60 infantry
12 vehicles

No fast attack which is annoying but you've got a solid cc component and can tarpit a lot of squads in midfield and the army has multiple deployment options with the Duke. If you wanted to keep the Reavers I'd really put them into two squads even though they are only three strong though the single squad of one works as well. Main difference there is ensuring the Trueborn have a role with their transports acting as duality.

Comments (10)

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I was toying with the idea of replacing the reavers with scourges, to add to the drop theme, but the extra few points didn't seem to really do much. I probably will change the two trueborn squads down to 3 w/3 blasters, that seems the best.

If I don't care about Sliscus' poison, I can simply make all the trueborn squads 3 w/3 blasters. That comes to 1999, which is good enough, though it makes me sad. The shardcarbine Trueborn squad is a perfect modeling opportunity!

One way of adding in a second Reaver squad is to change around the Troops. Drop one Warrior squad and take a Raider in place of a Venom for the other. That, combined with the changes to all 3/3 in elites, is enough points to make everything fit - but then the Duke is stuck with a small 5-man squad of Warriors and mostly useless.
3 replies · active 748 weeks ago
Ya changing the trueborn to 3 w/3 blasters is your best bet and go from there. The lack of lots of 3+ poisoned shots is annoying but you have a lot of anti-infantry anyway. Once down to 3w/3 work around from there. The list given in the post gives you a place for your Duke when needed to get 3+ poison (start them outside of Raider, add him, they get 3+ poison, he joins another vehicle, etc.) but you're really taking him for your mandatory HQ, deployment options (which are best with blaster Venoms) and double drug roll.
If we take your list and drop the Dark Lance, and drop the warriors down to 8 men and a blaster, we have enough to add in the 3rd flickerfield back on the Wyches, and put a flickerfield on the Duke's Raider. 8 Warriors, 7 with 3+ poison rapid fire weapons, and a blaster and blast pistol is not too shabby. So it would be:

Duke
3x3 Trueborn, 3 blasters, Venom w/2 SC
3x10 Wyches, 2 shardnet, Hekatrix with agonizer, Raider w/flickerfields
2x5 Warriors, blaster, Venom w/2 SC
8 Warriors, blaster, Raider w/flickerfields
3xRavager, 3 DL, flickerfields

Comes to 2000 exactly. 12 vehicles (all with 5++ saves), 58 infantry. 22 KP. The 8-man warrior squad isn't optimal, but it's decent, and is a decent place for Sliscus to go.
That works too! Could always addsplinter racks for fun too :P
Biggest problem will be to come up with 5 Venoms, most conversions are quite expensive for such a small spammy vehicule. Most DE lists I seem to be building have this problem, lack of models for scourges, venoms, etc is annoying :/ I'm considering replacing Venoms with Raiders and introducing Hellions to keep some nice anti-infantery going (perhaps with the Baron) but I'm always a bit short for points...
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
I recon you could do a decent Venon with a Vyper and some spare bits to make it more DEldary... the platform doesn't really need to be huge as I don't picture 5 drugged up space elves packed on and hoping to get up close and personal asap taking up a whole lot of space - plus, the Rhino sets a wonderful precedent.
What about this idea? The thought of Splinter Racks, Shardcarbines, and the Duke makes me excited.

Duke 150

9 Trueborn, 8 Shardcarbine, 1 Splintercannon, Raider with flickerfield, splinter racks - 238
3 Trueborn, 3 blasters, Venom with dual SC - 146
3 Trueborn, 3 blasters, Venom with dual SC - 146

10 Wyches, 2 shardnet, Hekatrix w/Venom Blade, Raider with flickerfield - 205
10 Wyches, 2 shardnet, Hekatrix w/Venom Blade, Raider with flickerfield - 205
5 Warriors, blaster, Venom with dual SC - 125
5 Warriors, blaster, Venom with dual SC - 125

6 Reavers, 2 heat lances - 156
6 Reavers, 2 heat lances - 156

Ravager, 3 DL, flickerfields - 115
Ravager, 3 DL, flickerfields - 115
Ravager, 3 DL, flickerfields - 115

Total 1997. The Duke obviously goes with the carbine/cannon Trueborn squad for some serious anti-infantry. I've lost a squad of Wyches but gained another Reaver squad, so my anti-tank has gone up (your list 11 blasters, mine 8 blasters and 4 heat lances) and he still affects 4 units with combat drugs. I don't know if I need more than 2 Wych units, but the loss of a Troop choice may or may not be significant. The Hekatrixes lost their agonizers for venom blades - not so sure about this but the agonizer is really overpriced so.... 4 Raiders, 4 Venoms, 3 Ravagers should be enough tanks and gives me good opportunities for LOD.
3 replies · active 748 weeks ago
Splinter racks only effect rifles or pistols I'm afraid. No Carbine or Cannon love :( . I prefer your first list in the comments compared to this but the addition of the 2x Reavers are nice. If you drop the Trueborn down to 3x3 again and are able to find a place for the Duke and the extra points...
Really? Boo. I thought it was splinter weapons in general.
I'm not really 100% happy with it but I made a list based on a similar idea, but incorporating the Baron and Hellions. Here it is:

150 Duke Sliscus
105 Baron Sathonyx

136 3 Trueborn, 2x Blaster in Raider w/ Flickerfield
136 3 Trueborn, 2x Blaster in Raider w/ Flickerfield

169 9 Hellions, Helliarch w/ Agonizer (Baron joins this squad)
220 10 Wyches, 2 Shardnet and impaler, Hekatrix w/ Agonizer in Raider w/ Flickerfield
220 10 Wyches, 2 Shardnet and impaler, Hekatrix w/ Agonizer in Raider w/ Flickerfield
166 9 Warriors, Blaster in Raider w/ Flickerfield (Sliscus joins this squad)

156 6 Reavers, 2 Heat Lances
156 6 Reavers, 2 Heat Lances

125 Ravager w/ Night Shields, Flickerfield
125 Ravager w/ Night Shields, Flickerfield
125 Ravager w/ Night Shields, Flickerfield

Total 1989 pts. The remaining points go to some extra wargear somewhere. As I said I'm not really happy with it, but the really good thing about it is that it doesn't use venoms, which I didn't want to convert (I'll wait for an official model, I find most of the conversion ideas floating around too expensive or too ugly).

The other, completely non-competitive advantage it that it uses a lot of different cool models. Yay. I'd love to make a better list based on the Duke+Baron combo though :/

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