Email in: chaos space marines at 1500p

Wednesday, December 29, 2010

Email in: chaos space marines at 1500p

Posted by Unknown

"Dear Kirby,

I’m a beginner in 40k and my chosen race is chaos space marines….they have the best backround for me by far, evil space marines, traitors, really,
really bad guys (shudder). Anyway, I have played a few games with friends models, I only have a chaos lord and daemon prince at the moment and I’m trying to come up with a competitive list at 1500p and circumvent our suppression fire-AT fire disadvantage. These are my two list, tell me what you think…one is a more basic list and the other is more hardcore…

Basic list

HQ

Khurdur-chaos lord, combimelta, daemon weapon, wings ( I just love this guy and he really isn’t bad…)
Daemon prince-Mark of nurgle-warptime, wings

Troops

10 CSM-meltagun, autocannon,meltaguns,asp.champ w/powerfist, rhino
9 CSM-meltagun, autocannon, asp.champ w/powerfist, rhino
8 Khorne berserkers-skull champ w/power weapon-rhino (ride w/ lord)

Hvy Support

2 obliterators
2 obliterators
2 obliterators

Competative

HQ

Daemon prince-Mark of nurgle-warptime, wings
Daemon prince-Mark of nurgle-warptime, wings

Troops

10 CSM-meltagun, autocannon,meltaguns,asp.champ w/powerfist, rhino
10 CSM-meltagun, autocannon, meltagun, rhino
9 Khorne berserkers-skull champ w/power weapon-rhino

Hvy Support

2 obliterators
2 obliterators
2 obliterators

Your thoughts, tactical advice? Thanks in advance, Kon"

Thought of CSM emails! Welcome to 40k Kon so let's take a look. Your 2nd list is much better though I would drop the Champion for combi-meltas on the Rhinos (or Havoc Launchers but I'm leaning towards combis) as you will need the extra anti-tank. Changing the CSM to double melta can also help with this and although I generally don't like doing this for your main Troops, they will need to be supporting the Zerkers anyway and 30 MEQs in your opponent's face at 1500 is alot to deal with. With your first list the Lord really does nothing. He may look awesome but doesn't really add to the army. You could always use him as the Zerker leader if you like. Also, guys with jump packs cannot go into transports unless otherwise stated such as the Blood Angels Storm Raven.

With regards to tactics I'd basically be pushing your Rhinos forward to generate as much cover for themselves as possible and have the Nurgle Princes either go through cover themselves (chances of them taking a wound are slim) or hide behind Rhinos if they don't need to immediately threaten your opponent. All the while have your Oblits put fire into your opponent to pop transports so the Zerkers can assault whilst the CSM provide anti-infantry firepower through torrenting.

Also, if you're serious about being competitive with CSM, using the Blood Angels or Space Wolves codex but CSM models is perfectly fine with 99.9999% of people. As long as your models are clearly WYISWYG and your army list is clear and has been explained to your opponent, most people don't have issues with it; particularly in tournaments. This opens up a lot more options with regards to competitive list building but may not feel right to you.

Comments (14)

Logging you in...

Dashboard | Edit profile | Logout

Logged in as

+2 Vote up Vote down

chumbalaya 79p · 747 weeks ago

Oblitz, Nurgle DPs, Rhinos out the ass

Not much you can do with CSM sadly

0 Vote up Vote down

nuclear · 747 weeks ago

CSM characters with wings count as infantry still, just move like jump infantry, so in the first list he can have his lord ride with the zerkers.

0 Vote up Vote down

TheAngelKing47 · 747 weeks ago

I would do 2x melta over the auto cannon. I also think the zerker champ should have a power fist. Whenever I run squads of zerkers and I have 3 squads of 8 one of them ALWAYS has a power fist. It's especially handy facing down a dred.

0 Vote up Vote down

zeronyne · 747 weeks ago

I've just started CSMs as my third army, and I have yet to play them at all.

Is there no redemption for the codex at all? No cheesy list that can hold its own? Is dual lash dead? I don't mind playing an army with slim odds to win, but if it's a fail-factory, I'm going to have to make them into vampires or vikings.

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

0 Vote up Vote down

maddoc · 747 weeks ago

If you face armies that are actual good, meaning that bring more then 10 long range at weapons and more then 5msu units you are in for a ride. My biggest problem with chaos was that most games i go for the draw or very slim victory which is not very satisfying.

Vikings or vampires it is. Hell normal SM make everything better then chaos.

+1 Vote up Vote down

sly · 747 weeks ago

The main 'redemption' for the Codex is mainly whether your playing area accepts that Dreads cannot see units that are not in their front 45-degree Line of Sight arc. If they accept this, you can run fire support Dreads with ML/AC, or MM advancing Dreads with MM/HF, and help with armor saturation, anti-tank or suppressive fire, and ranged firepower. If they do not, that leaves you with Elites as a weak slot, and Fast Attack as a terrible slot.

Also, one thing to consider is that Chaos generally wins in Troop vs Troop in CC... it's when they face rock units that their Troops lose in CC. So I wouldn't overload the Troop units, as they usually will beat other Troops and lose to dedicated CC units in any case, and running MSU units gives you the chance to put down more Rhinos, which again help with armor saturation.

Keeping with those suggestions as regards to your list, I suggest:
DP with Wings, Nurgle, Warptime
2x Dread with MM/HF
3x 5 CSM with meltagun in Rhino with Havoc Launcher
1x 5 Berzerkers with PF Champion in Rhino with combi-Bolter
7 Oblits

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

0 Vote up Vote down

TheAngelKing47 · 747 weeks ago

Hey, this is a list I could almost do! I lack one dred. Is putting 5 zerkers in a rhino a sufficient number of zerkers? I've considered just to avoid odd numbers in my list

-1 Vote up Vote down

Killswitch · 747 weeks ago

2 Lash princes
2 Nurgle squads double melta in rhinos
1 8 man Khorne unit with p.fist in Raider
2 x 3 Oblits

Simple lash 1500pt army which does well.

2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Kirby 118p · 747 weeks ago

Except Lash doesn't do very well. Lash as utility is great. Lash as a primary source of damage of a crux of an army is not.

+2 Vote up Vote down

TheKingElessar 71p · 747 weeks ago

Against idiots.

-1 Vote up Vote down

Killswitch · 747 weeks ago

I disagree. 6 Oblits which have the option to deepstrike and have plenty of long range weaponry to choose from can pop transports fairly easily. Sitting in cover, they arn't a push over either. The princes are VERY easy to hide behind the Land raider, so If your facing a combat army, sit back and let them dare to push forwards. 2 Twin-lascannons on the Raider is also additional anti-tank and great for putting wounds on big creatures. Tyranids, daemons and orks are all punished by lash. Mech marines tend to have plenty of rhinos, so with 8 lascannons shots a turn, those rhinos wont be around for long. Jetbike Seer council eldar or the like, lash them in a conga line so the farseer is up front and bam, charge him and he has to pass all his wounds (likely around 4) or his auto dead, due to str 6. Theres obviously a lot of new counters to such an army, but still an army to fear at the 1500pt level due to not being able to perform mass msu and long range weaponry to handle those oblits fast.

2 replies · active 747 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Kirby 118p · 747 weeks ago

'...so with 8 lascannons shots a turn, those rhinos wont be around for long.' = fallacy

BS4 LC = 7.4% chance to wreck+ AV11 w/4+ cover. Those Rhinos will truck along nicely. Even ignoring upon the reliance of Lash to clump infantry units for anti-infantry purposes (which lowers your anti-tank considerably) or dragging/pushing units, the list has medicore firepower compared to most non-shooting lists, let alone a true shooting list. Backed up by being just as medicore in combat and you get an army which is worse in all phases compared to most armies.

Oh hey, that's a chaos army!

Lash means you're not running Nurgle Princes which are quite good in combat and very annoying in that they need to be brought down. Unlike Lash princes or a lone LR meaning all anti-tank guns can focus on the Rhinos or Oblits to remove them. Lash doesn't even scare a proper foot list. It's again, great utility in terms of pushing people off objectives, moving things into/out of terrain, dragging units out of bubbles, etc. but creating an army around it? Not going to work. It's a gimmick on an already sub-par army which only works against 4th ed foot lists.

+2 Vote up Vote down

TheKingElessar 71p · 747 weeks ago

Zing!

0 Vote up Vote down

Sly · 747 weeks ago

I agree with Kirby, if you're going to run Lash, run a shooty list with a single Lash prince. Include a Dread or two, as lashing units into their charge range is nice. Same for Defilers. Lashing someone near a Defiler sets them up for a Battlecannon or a Heavy Flamer, plus a charge... Lashing near a squad of Oblits only sets them up for Plasma Cannons and uses up your major anti-tank firepower.

A list I'd run that uses Lash as a backup:
Lash DP with Wings
1x Dread, MM
4x 5 Plague Marines, 2x Melta each, in Rhino with Combi-Flamer
1x3 Oblits
2x Defiler with dual CCWx

You could drop a combi-flamer to a normal flamer on one Rhino and get a Heavy Flamer on the Dread. With 3 Walkers, you have a much more dangerous army in CC, and sufficient melta for 1500 points. Just lack ranged anti-infantry, but with all the flamer templates from almost every unit plus Lash, you have a decent method of handling Hordes. Lash one squad, use "Rhino-lash" on one other squad, and burninate two squads a turn. You can't really do too well with Chaos on that topic except by lowering anti-tank firepower, and Chaos is too lacking there to do it.