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Tuesday, January 25, 2011

Analysis: Ironclads



Here's an email from Jason to start off a discussion:

"Hey Kirby,

Time and time again in the city store I see people taking an ironclad and dropping it into melta range. They sometimes kill something; but it is never, ever worth their while in the end.

Surely a better use for an armour 13 combat monster would be mid-table/flank drop, away from meltas, and firing your twin missiles into the side of armour?

Following this, they can try to saturate you with firepower, but armour 13 and extra armour really keeps you going towards the enemy, and it means they aren't shooting your transports (which is really what they should be doing, so translate that you probably ignore the dread?)

You have smoke for the following turn, and you can probably make it into combat; giving you a better chance to kill whatever than that single shot melta, and the missiles having a decent chance as well.

You've also had the benefit of forcing your opponent to think 'where is he going to drop that melta gun and how can i kill it?'

Just thoughts.

Jason"


Let's take a quick look at the Ironclad compared to an MM/HF Dread. We're going to assume we have it outfitted with the meltagun/heavy flamer upgrades. The MM Dread is always going to be better on the drop with the more reliable range of the MM. This isn't too much of an issue with Drop Pods (basically you should never be out of ranged but whether or not you're in melta range can be affected). It is however as is pointed out by Jason, a terrible use of points more often than not. You pay a premium for the Ironclad because it has AV13 and comes with extra armor both of which are minimal use against point-blank melta which is very likely to be within reach of your Ironclad if you drop it close to your enemy. It can be a fantastic disruption but so are things like Land Speeders so unless you're dropping a lot of things in your opponent's face, this seems like a waste of a unit which is very likely to be rendered useless by a meltagun.

Is it a usable entry then? The Ironclad's role is pretty particular because it's quite expensive. Whilst it's not bad, it's not fantastic either. What the Ironclad Dread has in advantage over other Dreads is AV13 on the front and side. This means it is a lot harder to damage at range (S7 hates AV13+) and much harder to damage in combat with powerfists. However, Ironclads cannot take ranged weapons like twin-linked autocannons to provide effective backfield firepower but they can take up to two hunter killer missiles, something no other Dreadnought can do. In the end this is exactly what Jason is talking about, you fire 2x HKM turn one, rely on your AV13 at range to defend you (which is pretty good) combined with extra armor, move and run next turn + smoke and then you are very likely in combat range or at the very least severely threatening your opponent. The problem with this is these guys are quite expensive and you obviously don't have any Rifleman Dreadnoughts which loses you some downfield firepower.

This can be alleviated somewhat with a Master of the Forge and running six Dreads. For example....

MotF w/Beamer
3x Ironclads w/2x HKM
4x 5x Tacticals w/LasPlas RBack
5x Scouts w/Cloak, ML
3x Typhoon
3x Rifledread

1990 points.

Here you've got a lot of firepower as usual from Dreads/Typhoons/LasPlas backed up by 6x HKM from the Ironclads and units that are aggressively pushing midfield/opponent's backfield which are quite potent in combat. It's certainly a better use than using them in pods (except in a full Pod army but even then, you're paying a lot of points on AV13 and EA which is generally nullified by point blank melta). You could also do things like run MM/HF Speeders for that deep-strike disruption or run full 10 man Tactical squads, not run the scouts, etc.

Any other uses of Ironclads one can think of? Their options outside of heavy flamer and the HKM are pretty meh which limits their use and the expense you pay for them also makes them less optimal compared to Dreadnoughts with wider access to weapon load-outs. They don't gain anything on the drop compared to normal Dreadnoughts and may in fact be worse due to point inefficiency and smaller melta range and whilst their AV13 is excellent at ranged defense or in combat, it's hard to take use of it at range without long-ranged guns and it can be hard to get them in combat when relying on move+run. In the end the Dreadnought is generally more versatile and outside of the use outlined in this post and in Jason's email, Ironclads don't have much going for them.

Comments (12)

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Only issue with your example is that you are running DE and Ironclads aren't more survivable then any other dread out there because the majority of your anti-armour fire is lance shots. Plus you are more manouvrable so in most cases should be able to avoid the chap or at the least shake him so he can't shoot you as you simply redeploy away from it for example.
They're custom made to own orks, who lack the tools to deal with them.
Use them defensively, with hurricanes. Move up and plink wounds off anything, really.

The only other use is as scary protection for your other armor, and this doesn't work very well against modern armies.
Like the melta torpedo, it only ever works once.

Ironclads are pretty terrible. I field them as a guilty pleasure, basically.
I prefer Stelek's version over this one. His spams six Ironclads and there is no scout squad, doubling the amount of HKM's that can be fired on the first turn.
2 replies · active 740 weeks ago
It's an option but a different list as well. You'd then most likely drop the Scouts (not a bad thing) and the MotF would be in a Razorback but you lose suppression fire/consistent fire for more AV13 walkers in your face. Still effective but different style and I think I'd prefer some consistency with my shooting (what if the 12 HKM don't do much? or I'm dealing with 12+ tanks? etc.).
Auretious Taak's avatar

Auretious Taak · 740 weeks ago

The other issue is that it's 12 one shot krak missiles over the 3 Rifledreads in the HS slot, and those 3 rifledreads pack out 12 str 7 shots which almost never miss whereas those 12 kraks, 4 are going to miss on average rolls, but then Kirby's list also has 6 HKM's and 3 Ironclad chassis as well. Different list and different effects and how you play them, but these days the rifleman is pretty hard to pass up because it has a utility roll in being able to do damage to other hard hitters like Hive Guard and Heavy Infantry as well as torrent on wounds from 48" away whereas the Ironclad has those 2 shots then has to close to at least 12" to be effective and with blocking and mobility an opponent can sack off a few cheapiesd and get far enough away that you aren't a threat or sack em to get the shots needed to now destroy the Ironclads at half melta range for example. Ironclad has it's uses but the 6 ironclad build doesn't bring in the really long range and continuous fire support one needs against a strong list.
I run one with the basic setup, and as the assault unit for my biker army. His hard hitting attacks allow me something to take down vehicles in combat. I find he is a great support unit for everything else, as he runs headfirst into the fray, and if they kill him, they are not concentrating fire on the landraider redeemer full of Assault Terminators, or the other dreads / landspeeders in my force.

He can become a but of a lame duck, and i have to pick a target and make sure i stick to going for it. due to his basic speed I cannot let him get distarcted with opportunity assaults that will tie him up. unless it is good to tie up the unit....

I know i am not the best player, but it scares the hell out of the dark eldar and guard players.
Do you guys think Ironclads have potential if Stormravens come to C :S M?
I ran 6 ironclads at 1750 to great success; secured 2nd place overall. (Lost to Kanwall, who took 1st)
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Auretious Taak's avatar

Auretious Taak · 740 weeks ago

When and where and what tournament and comp or non-comp, because you have basically said you've run them to great success and said nothing that really means anything to any of us - eg comp environment with awesome paint/sports score and comp score, you could have lost a game and still hit 2nd overall. Also, what's your name or rather username online? Anon is something vt2 would do because he thinks he is cool like that! :p ;)
I like Ironclads, but I won't lie, they only work in dread bash lists.

Which is fine for me, since I love dread bash lists. Not much fine for everybody else, though.
Cronofiend's avatar

Cronofiend · 741 weeks ago

I two in drop pods the first turn, away from melta near transports or big threat tanks that I want dead. If it kills a land raider thats fantastic. If they die, oh well, they took a ton of fire off my other vehicles and now I'm ramming hammernators down your throat. They are good because they can't be ignored. They have sent big deathstar units (thunderwolf cav, hammernators, death company, even killed Mephiston with the help of a physic hood in range) running off the board because they got ignored and killed 2-4 guys. This may not work all the time, like they both die to a combimelta 1st or 2nd turn, but it works more often then not. BTW, this is with Vulkan for twin linked melta and flamer. And it is pretty hard not to be in melta range on the drop. If you place the pod 1 inch away from the vehicle you want to shoot you need to scatter directly away almost the full 12 inches because of the 2" disembark plus the 2.5" dreadnought base.

I love them.

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