Email in: 1700 competative Tau! (yay)

The Fast Attack options are eating up a massive amount of points (356), and they will provide little in the way of board control. Points (in my opinion) are best spent towards crisis suits, broadsides with shield drones, a sturdy HQ with shield drones, and fire warriors in devilfish.

Piranha with FB's are great, and will kill any tank they come across, but they require a fair amount of points and have (other than disruption pods), nothing to keep them alive long enough to get close to a tank. And with all those broadsides on the board - is tank destruction really an issue? Horde armies will provide the largest threat, as Tau does not have the high amount of shots required to keep armies like Orks or Nids at bay. Thus the reason I suggest dropping the Kroot and replacing them with rapid fire warriors. Get them close via Devilfish, and let their STR 5 weapons do their work.

8 replies · active 743 weeks ago

VT2 79p · 743 weeks ago

Driving your weak, impotent, expensive, and armed-with-basic-guns-only infantry towards the enemy is a terribly bad idea, and shouldn't be recommended even as a joke.

Zjoekov 74p · 743 weeks ago

Shooting the Fusion blaster with the Piranhas is a bonus; main job for them is blocking.

And no thank you to rapid failing Fire Warriors.

Edit; there was lag I guess because this comment was not meant for you VT2 haha.

Bro_Lo 82p · 743 weeks ago

Fast attack in the Tau dex aren't there to kill stuff. Piranhas are for also for blocking and paths have an obvious role.

Fire warriors are certainly not what are required here...

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If you play models that do not kill, then your wasting points. Tau are short handed as it is, and are easily outgunned when compared to new codex's. Blasting around in a cardboard box, hoping the flat-out 4+ cover save they provide keeps you alive is ludicrious. Leave those cheap tricks to Marines and their turbo-boosting bikes.

You're assuming your opponents armies have poor mobility. All Eldar armies laugh at blocking tactics. Angels, Nids, Daemons dont care, they'll deep strike behind you, and with the amount of firepower SM's offer, you'll need to make alot of 4+ saves. Good luck.

Devilfish require a large point commitment. In a 1500 pt game, there are much better options. The markerlights are nice, but with all my games I've used them, they have never been a standout performer.

If given the choice between Kroot and FW's, I'll go FW's 9 times out of 10. A STR 5 weapon with 30 inch range. Sounds terrible to me!

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Bro_Lo 82p · 743 weeks ago

Please tell me you're joking with the first paragraph. If not, then go read Kirby's Tau reviews.

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TheWolfsLunch 61p · 743 weeks ago

'If you play models that do not kill, then your wasting points.'
My rhinos don't kill things, does that mean I shouldn't take them?

'Tau are short handed as it is, and are easily outgunned when compared to new codex's.'
A Tau army with Broadsides will destroy things almost every turn, S10 Ap1 does that. Couple that with Fireknives' firepower, light armour dies (Razorbacks etc.). Armies that try to outshoot Tau also tend to get sucked into killing that really big unit of Kroot in front of the Tau army (you know, we buy them to die, not to kill, and they keep the rest of us alive, not really wasting points. They're also pretty good on the charge too) which means our hiding Fireknives and Broadsides get to have playtime alot more.

'Blasting around in a cardboard box, hoping the flat-out 4+ cover save they provide keeps you alive is ludicrious.'
Ohai tharr Dark Eldar.

'You're assuming your opponents armies have poor mobility. All Eldar armies laugh at blocking tactics.'
I don't see blocking as only blocking movement. They also block firepower, as with their Fusion Blaster backup they can't be ignored, else the clever Eldar who laugh at blocking tactics won't be very mobile anymore.
Read: Blocking is disrupting the enemy and making them move and shoot the way we want them to.

'Angels, Nids, Daemons dont care, they'll deep strike behind you'
Not all Angels deep strike. Not all Nids deep strike (and never will the whole army deep strike). The Daemons deep strike piecemeal, that and they're landing in a big field full of kroot, so therefore they have to land in front of the Tau army, and then the Tau only have to focus on half the Daemon army. If I know my enemy is going to deep-strike at my Tau, I'll sit in the corner with a big shield of kroot; deep strike behind me now.

'and with the amount of firepower SM's offer, you'll need to make alot of 4+ saves. Good luck.'
I only have 12 4+ saves in my Tau army, 6 fire warriors (who hide in a DFish) and 6 Pathfinders (who are there to make everyone else look and perform better).
Unless of course you are talking about cover, and that's only for my hammerheads, or if my suits are getting shot by Lascannons, which only really concerns me in a Razorspam list, which I can block sections with my Piranhas, or even if need be, feed them some Crisis Suits.

'Devilfish require a large point commitment. In a 1500 pt game, there are much better options. The markerlights are nice, but with all my games I've used them, they have never been a standout performer. '
That's why we usually only use one or two (that typically come with the Pathfinders) to hide our crappy Fire Warriors. Devilfish have markerlights? And that's why Fish of Fury (and Fire Warriors) suck. Fire Warriors suck.

'If given the choice between Kroot and FW's, I'll go FW's 9 times out of 10. A STR 5 weapon with 30 inch range. Sounds terrible to me!'
Fire Warriors suck (noticing a trend yet?). Kroot are cheaper, are better in combat (which if your opponent is a combat army is good because they can kill things before they die), and can be taken in big squads. Sure, their gun is pretty scary...to a Guardsman. But for them to use their big scary gun they have to be able to get there, which requires a Devilfish, (which are over-priced for what they do), or a couple Devilfish, which means we spend more points on them than we did on our Kroot, which then means less Suits, less firepower, and just makes the Tau's weaknesses more obvious.

Tau need to play Keepaway, the longer they shoot for, the deader their opponents get. Kroot play keepaway, they protect our precious suits and tanks from assaults and also attract firepower. Piranhas play keepaway, they block enemy tanks and firepower, and can also suppress or destroy tanks as an aside. Crisis Suits play keepaway, they jump close, shoot, and jump out of line of sight, and generally piss the opponent off by surviving (jump, shoot, jump, opponent moves to try and see them, lessens their shooting by moving, less Tau die, next turn Crisis suits jump, shoot, jump, opponent brings more after them, noticing another trend yet?)

Wow, big comment. :)

Bro_Lo 82p · 742 weeks ago

TheWolfsLunch is todays hero. Your prize... 5 3++ points. Spend them wisely.

TheWolfsLunch 61p · 742 weeks ago

I prefer spaces, but underscores suck.

No glaring incorrectancies in my snowmobile is there?

Bro_Lo 82p · 743 weeks ago

My concern is you have a single hull to hide all of your suits behind. I'd swap out one unit of broadside for a HH.

6 replies · active 743 weeks ago

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Tanks are great, but I prefer terrain. Its much cheaper too.

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Bro_Lo 82p · 743 weeks ago

It's cool that you control terrain.

Archnomad 70p · 743 weeks ago

I love you.

Bro_Lo 82p · 742 weeks ago

You complete me.

VT2 79p · 743 weeks ago

I want Brolo's manchildren.

Bro_Lo 82p · 742 weeks ago

VT2 we all know you're female really..

VT2 79p · 743 weeks ago

If you fail to destroy all enemy ranged units on the first turn, or he gets the first turn, your battlesuits are gonna be very, very dead.

Zjoekov 74p · 743 weeks ago

I'm still not seeing how 1 Hammerhead as an extra hull is even close to a reliable solution to that problem. You invest a lot of points in something to protect other units, while it can still get shot down itself too... Yes Av13 and a 4+ save is reliable; but not in every game. Instead of losing 1 or 2 Suits; you'll lose the Hammerhead now...

Seems just risky to me. And expensive.

But please explain it more extensive if you want, as I'm not set on anything yet.

7 replies · active 743 weeks ago

VT2 79p · 743 weeks ago

Being able to block line of sight, and thus make your most lethal units invicible, is one of those things that make tau so very good if you know what you're doing, and so very bad if you don't.
Blocking with hammerheads is your second line of defense. The first is the kroot.

For all the good kroot do, they don't hide your battlesuits, so people will shoot them. It doesn't matter what they can shoot you with - if they can draw line of sight to your crisis suits, they will shoot them.
Once they're gone, your army ceases to function, because it can no longer reliably kill things, or move around as it pleases.

Zjoekov 74p · 743 weeks ago

Alright I talked a bit more about this matter with VT2 in the chat and I will seriously take it into consideration now. I feel less like a special snowflake with Hammerheads in my army; but then again playing competatively with Tau is pretty rare already.

Anyhow; thanks for help and the quick reply Kirby. I started building today ^^

Kirby 118p · 743 weeks ago

You can run no tanks, I'd just prefer the Hammerheads to hide my Crisis Suits as do the others :P. Is it necessary? No because you're not always going to hide all of your suits all of the time because of the varying speeds and height of models. It;s obviously a lot better to have the BLoS option and that's how I run my Tau but Broadsides + Crisis as well is viable but against any army which can drop your Crisis Suits quickly, you're screwed.

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You never block LOS by hiding behind a tank. Wishful thinking for sure.

You're going to fit all your models behind a small vehicle and assume the opposing player will never attempt to flank you, move in order to open LOS, or deep strike behind you?

If you are playing 10 models vs. 10 models then maybe that works, but in a 1500 or 1850 game, you cannot hide, especially behind a tank. AV13 is nice, but in a world full of Leman Russ tanks and Land Raiders, armor 13 is nothing more then a snack to chew on.

Bro_Lo 82p · 743 weeks ago

Not sure what game you're playing... please read Kirby's or Stelek's Tau reviews and batreps and you may just find a whole new army lurking within that codex.

Kirby 118p · 743 weeks ago

Echoing BroLo. Go also read the blocking articles as there is a bloody picture of the Crisis Suits hiding and having their LoS blocked by a Devilfish.

Archnomad 70p · 743 weeks ago

You're on fire in this thread man. <3

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SneakyDan · 743 weeks ago

Obviously your still playing fourth Ed. Joe, otherwise you wouldn't still believe what your saying is valid. You couldnt possibly be that retarded.

2 replies · active 743 weeks ago

TheWolfsLunch 61p · 743 weeks ago

I wonder if he knows it's 2011 too.

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Cyklown 51p · 743 weeks ago

There's a quite reasonable chance he's trolling...

Except I just checked his blog he's not. He's just a bit stuck in 4th ed. He rates ASS as a "avoid" in his personal estimimation, and just discovered Kroot as a viable option. In 4th ed everything he said would be fairly solid, but I agree that he's behind the times now.

Still no reason to hate, I'm glad we stayed friendly and informative. Let's stay nice.

Marshal_Wilhelm 61p · 743 weeks ago

I'm with Cyklown.

Go easy on Joe, even if he is getting excited [in a bad way] or not.

If you play the man and not the ball, the whole point of the lesson [getting people to play 5th ed.] is lost and you get another person going home and telling his mates what a bunch of jerks, or whatever, hang out on 3++

You win more with honey than with vinegar ;)

4 replies · active 743 weeks ago

Kirby 118p · 743 weeks ago

I win with tactics and loaded dice thank you very much!

TheWolfsLunch 61p · 743 weeks ago

Apparently I use loaded dice on vassal...

Bro_Lo 82p · 742 weeks ago

Surely it depends, I prefer salt and vinegar with my fish and chips. Honey just wouldn't cut the mustard.

You are correct however, my (other) pink, fluffy friend. Joe does actually seem to have a decent game head on him, however, he's just playing the wrong game. I learnt a lot of this stuff the hard way, a good ol' flaming from YTTH and look how I turned out. Kids nowadays have it easy with all of this easy access information and cuddliness from Mr Pink.

Kirby 118p · 742 weeks ago

Sorry.

loudanddeep 48p · 742 weeks ago

Broadsides with no shield drones?

In a world filled with las cannons, melta guns and plasma, I find the drones absolutely essential
Maybe I can put my BS in cover...if I get to set up and pick terrain....but I can't count on it.

Three hits from a valk (they are twin linked) and that BS squad is just gone...no rolls, just gone.

Just a comment on the tanks and los: while it is very easy to get a cover save by hopping your suits over tanks, it is very difficult to actually completely block LOS. Once in a while, it might be possible from one unit, with specific angles (hey, sometimes thats all you need!!!) but overall, considering they only need to see an arm or even a foot to target the unit, it ain't easy to completely block LOS.

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SneakyDan · 742 weeks ago

"Three hits from a valk (they are twin linked) and that BS squad is just gone...no rolls, just gone."

Sure, if you didnt put your broadsides in cover. Or put kroot directly in front of them, so they are obscured. Or, put crisis suits or a railhead in front of them, or a devilfish, or ........

Shield drones are overrated. For what you want it for, a gun drone works just as well, because half of your unit is in cover of some sort, isnt it? I'd hope so, being 5th ed.

I don't run drones period, and I've played against vendetta guard lists, one particular player who was invited to Masters here in Oz. And my broadsides didnt get smashed. Use cover people, its what its their for.

2 replies · active 742 weeks ago

Marshal_Wilhelm 61p · 742 weeks ago

I'm actually pro-drone, though the rest of my 3++ers don't really follow the sentiment.

On Crisis Suits, a krak missile kills your 50+ point Suit. Or your 10 point Gun drone.

On Broadsides, a shield drone gains the armour save of the unit, getting a 2+. This keeps the unit silly invulnerable against krak missiles.
Las cannons pop the 80 pt Broadie. Or your 15 point Shield drone.

Both are around 20% of the cost of the hosting warrior. All you need is one shot allocated against this little beauties and you have *massively* offset the cost.

Everything you have said about the Suit getting cover, applies equally to the drone, further extending its usefullness.

If you had, say 6 Fire knives and I had 5 FK & 5 Gundrones, I would be happy in facing you. A slight drop in shooty output for a massive gain in ablative wounds.
Perhaps it is my time as a Marshal with Neophytes taking ap3 hits to the face for the Initiates that has given me this way of thinking?
And that is only 10 pts for 16 pts, not 10 pts for 50 pts.

If how you are playing is working for you, great. Don't change just from what loudanddeep and I are saying. However, if your Suits are getting bumped off or you want to change it up a little, give drones a chance. They are willing servants of the Empire too :P

It is for the Greater Good!

Kirby 118p · 742 weeks ago

Drones aren't bad bit it comes down to firepower v defense. At anything 2000 points or higher, drones become an easy buy because you have points to spare but up to 2000 you're tight on points to get in as many Crisis w/guns as possible as well as Broadsides/Hammerheads and the defenses of Piranhas/Kroot.