"Hello Will,
I've been staring at your blog for quite awhile now reading the various army lists and strategies. A bit about me, I'm a Journalist in the US Army (Hopefully no grief) :) and I started dabbling in WH40k Tabletop about a year ago with a friend. Long story short we both got stationed in opposite areas and now we are about to be 15 minutes apart in Germany! So I'm trying to conjure a competitive unforgiving list. I'm not as skilled as much as I would like to be. The two lists that are intriguing me are the BA Jumper type probably one with DEVS. The other list is a Space Wolf one I just created and would really enjoy your critique.
Space Wolves
2x Rune Priests- Living Lighting and Murderous hurricane
1x Rune Priest- Jaws, and Murderous Hurricane
3x Rifleman Dreads (Do I need extra armor?)
3x Long Fangs x5 Missiles
3x 9 Grey Hunters, instead of 10 so I could fit Rune Priests in the Rhino with them.
All of the above puts me at 1827. If I wanted to go to 2k I was going to throw in 1x 5 Swift Claw Biker pack, with an swiftclaw attack bike, Melta and MM.
Okay the idea of this list is, first lay down 3 chooser of the slain markers to avoid infiltration to closely. At the beginning have the rune priests advance with the grey hunters. Not close enough to be shot at, but further ahead then the support. Spam Murderous Hurricane and get them tangled up with difficult terrain tests while the missiles and Rifleman Dreads tear them to pieces. You can withdraw slowly like this as well. The Bikers would be the QRF (Quick Reaction Force) to anything flanking etc.
Well this was my idea, I'm quite inexperienced when it comes to this right now. Please let me know what you think.
Thanks,
Brian"
Hey Brian. The list is pretty decent but needs some tweaks I feel. I feel like you're trying to make a shooty force with a delaying midfield? Not something with combat firepower but something to disrupt your opponent? If so we need to up how much firepower you have and add some extra mobility to your force. Swift Claws aren't really the ideal choice because they can't take meltaguns and use them without a Wolf Guard and don't really add much. The better and more disruptive options would be Wolf Scouts or Land Speeders but since you only have FA slots, we'll go with Land Speeders. We also want to add LasPlas RBacks to the LF for more firepower but that's going to run us out of points quickly. Furthermore, the 3 Priests need to be different in terms of powers/wargear thanks to the Space Wolf codex special rules. Whilst I know you want 3 to slow your opponent as much as possible, two is a much more viable number in terms of getting the powers you want and psychic defense coverage. You just don't gain as much for the 3rd.
Let's try something like this then:
Priest w/Tempest, Hurricane, Chooser
Priest w/Hurricane, Lightning, Chooser
3x Rifledread
2x9x GH w/meltagun, MotW, Banner, Rhino
10x GH w/2x meltaguns, MotW, Banner, Rhino
3x MM/HF Land Speeder
3x5x LF w/4x ML, LasPlas RBack
And that should take you to just under 2000 points so there are points for some upgrades like Power Weapons on the GH squads or Sagas on the Priests. The Dreads don't need EA because they aren't moving forward with the army to actually close with the enemy but rather wishing to sit back and shoot for as long as possible. They are great to tie up units which can't kill them but would rather shoot than engage in combat. To drop this down to 1850 or 1750 lose a Speeder and Rifledread and shave a few upgrades. How's that looking Brian? Still keeping with your concept?
Marshal_Wilhelm 61p · 744 weeks ago
+++
Perhaps you could do a list of 'who can take Extra Armour and why?'
LR, mêlée Rhinos [ie, Berzerkers] Dreads with DCCW, etc.
+++
I am a believer in as soon as you don't take ten Greys, which gives you the free special weapon, you give them a WG for the cheaper and better PF, extra Ld and the combi-whatever.
I like this list. It is very shooty.
Would the Speeders ever run 'piranha duties' to move block LR and Wagons?
Kirby 118p · 743 weeks ago
List of EA: Land Raiders.
Speeders are disruption so dropped melta/flamer shots as needed and midfield blocking.
Marshal_Wilhelm 61p · 743 weeks ago
I know that for Templars, EA is super cheap and for me, very useful in getting my two mêlée squads into the action - 1.5K
However, you don't think Berzerkers or DCCW Dreads need them? Being able to hide the Dread in combat [12"] or move+run them if combat is not an option, keeps them alive. Not worth 15 pts?
Kirby 118p · 743 weeks ago
Marshal_Wilhelm 61p · 743 weeks ago
Rune Priest. - 115
LL, MH. Chooser of the slain, melta bombs
Wolf guard - 43
PF, combi-Mg
Grey Hunters pack. 8 - 185
Mg, MotW, Totem
Rhino
Rune Priest. - 105
LL, SC. Melta bombs
Wolf guard - 43
PF, combi-Mg
Grey Hunters pack. 8 - 185
Mg, MotW, Totem
Rhino
Rune Priest. - xx
LL, JotWW.
Wolf guard - 43
PF, combi-Mg
Grey Hunters pack. 8 - 185
Mg, MotW, Totem
Rhino
Wolf Guard - 23
combi-Flamer
Grey Hunters pack. 5 - 115
Flamer.
Razorback
Speeder - 70
MM, HF
Speeder - 70
MM, HF
Speeder - 70
MM, HF
Long Fangs. 6 - 215
5 ML
Razorback, Lasplas
Long Fangs. 6 - 215
5 ML
Razorback, Lasplas
Long Fangs. 6 - 215
5 ML
Razorback, Lasplas
1997pts.
Rathstar · 743 weeks ago
I think the addition of a 4th small troop choice (in a heavy bolter razorback of all things), 3 extra long fangs
and the 4th rune priest is not worth the loss of the riflemen dreads.
How much will the 3rd rune priest add ? An additional LL is nice but not at 100 pts (Psyker defence is already
covered by the other 2 rune priests), and metla bombs on rune priests is a bit of a last ditch effort and the pts
are better spend elsewhere.
I can see the additional 3 missile launcher long fangs instead of a 3rd riflemen dread worthwhile, but the 4th
troop choice is too small and fragile to be of much use. It sounds nice to have a cheap troop choice to hold "home"
objectives, but what forces you put an objectives so far back in your deployment zone to necessitate such a unit.
A better 4th troop choice (ie. bigger) could advance to mid-field and be ready to take over from one of your other
agressive troop choices if necessary.
Rathstar
Kirby 118p · 743 weeks ago
Marshal_Wilhelm 61p · 743 weeks ago
Marshal_Wilhelm 61p · 743 weeks ago
But now we are here, let's check it out ;)
I think a 'home guard' squad is golden. It sits with your firebase, adds a little shooting by attacking what the MLs have opened up and can bully enemy squads who have made it far enough to attack the Fangs.
Having one *small* squad, really a tiny investment, that will help you to win 2/3rds of the missions, seems like a really good deal to me, especially once you get bigger than 1.5K. In Annihilation, you can have the 'home guard' protect the Fangs and get in the way of attackers, buying the Fangs another turn of excellent shooting. Otherwise they can follow the midfielders.
I always, to date :P, have used such a squad with my Templars. Las+flamer and Lasback camp by the AutoLas Pred[s] and am very happy with how they perform.
Why send a big squad forwards, have it fight for a bit, then rush it back home on T4-5?
What if they get locked in combat?
Or if the original squad is getting overwhelmed? Do you abandon them? Why not just spend half the points on a home squad and half the points on bolstering the midfield in the first place? Marines are not quick enough to relocate like that.
Whilst Rifle dreads *are* very good, having a third LL is no great loss and you gain the third back up spell.
JotWW, SC and MH are all good powers.
SC is giving your midfield what the Orks with KFF are building their force around.
MH slows down a certain unit [more than the killing it does itself]. Isn't 3++ a great proponent of the virtues of move-block'ing and bubble-wrap'ing over just trying to shoot people into yesterday? Doesn't MH do that, and can potentially traffic jame following things?
JotWW is, by this blog, underrated in all-comers lists. It is not the game breaker that the net feared it would be, but against lists with MCs or expensive and/or slow things [Chaos Marines, Daemons, Necrons, Orks and even Eldars] it can be very useful. Is it the prime power? No LL is. But in situations JotWW is game changing and nice to have up your sleeve.
The melta-bombs were just to diversify the Rune Priests. But they are not a bad choice, imo. What would you spend those few points on?
Thoughts?