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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Wednesday, January 5, 2011

Email in: Wolves vs Deldar

"Hey Kirby,

So, I'm a CSM player currently renovating my army to be able to use the SW codex. I play in a small yet competitive community but right now my main competiter is a Deldar player. He uses the baron with a giant hellion squad, tons of disposable raiders and warriors and 2 fighters and a bomber. He puts that ramming gear on his raiders and uses it alot, also sometimes a webway. I'm trying to wrap my head around a SW list that isn't typical. I really like TWC, Wolf lords, scouts, speeders, and Rune Priests, but I seem to always end up with a razor type spam with a couple of priests and a small cheap squad of TWC.

When I look at the list of what I have its hard not to do something typical, but I was hoping you may see something different. My style of play is defensive, firepower, counter-attack ( very space wolfish, kinda why I'm giving them a shot)

heres what I got, we play 1500 and 2000. Also I'm willing to buy small amounts.


2 x Wolf Lords on TW

3 x RP


10 x scouts

5 x WG in power armor w/ special weapin options

( want to buy dreads)


30 x Grey hunters

3 x rhinos

3 x razors, lasplas, possibly one rhino can be this


6 x TWC, 2 x SS, 1 x WC, 1 x FW

2 x Land Speeders

Heavy Support:

12 x Long Fangs w/ ML

2 x LR

2 x Long Fangs with LC"

Well with what you’ve got you really are geared towards a ‘typical’ Space Wolves list but since you want Dreads I think we can do something there and here enters the major build issues with Space Wolves (ya people, there are issues). Elites are jam packed with things you almost need or want. Dreads and Lone Wolves are great choices whilst Wolf Guard are pretty much mandatory if you want your Grey Hunters to be reliable in midfield. Wolf Scouts are also an excellent and cheap disruption unit which can deal with backfield tanks or units quite effectively but really require Wolf Guard to be top-notch. This limits our ability to play around with Elites. If we want Wolf Scouts or decent Grey Hunters we need Wolf Guard to make them truly effective but if we also want another unit like Dreads, we can’t really have Wolf Scouts. In the end it comes down what do you want more? Although you said you want to buy Dreads in your text you pointed out you liked Scouts (amongst other units) so we’re going to keep them. Dreads would lead to a more defensive list but they are both viable options.

We are then stuck with Grey Hunters who only have one special weapon which is why 5-strong squads are so often used; those extra 3-4 guys don’t really net you anything in terms of special options. You have the option of not taking Wolf Guard but Ld8 is a huge negative but you could ‘replace’ them with Rune Priests though you then don’t get the 2nd special weapon but Ld10.

In the end, with what you have you’re looking at an army list based upon the ‘typical’ Hybrid Wolf lists. Long Fangs w/ML and LasPlas Razors fronted by Grey Hunters in Rhinos w/Wolf Guard and Rune priests to taste and supported by Wolf Scouts, Speeders and TWC + any WGBL/WL on TWM. The addition of Dreads can replace the Scouts but it’s still using the same formula. I wouldn’t say this is a Razorspam army (12 razors = razorspam tyvm!) but it’s similar in style to many Hybrid lists out there with the except of lots of small GH units in Rhinos you’re running three larger ones. You could go for a bigger TWC element by not taking Speeders and getting 2x3x TWC and 2x Wolf Lords (you’ll prob have to drop the Scouts as well) but this is much more aggressive.

Another option since you have 2 LR (not sure what type) is running two small GH squads in the Lrs (one as dedicated for Wolf Guard, one Heavy Support) and use them as fire support and then add Dreadnoughts, Long Fangs, LasPlas Rbacks (LF and GH squads) to taste. This brings you more shooting and is more defensive but not really optimal as that’s a lot of points invested in the Land Raiders without maximising their potential.

The typeof models you have are going to lend you to a list which matches up well with DE so you don't really need to worry about that.

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