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Tuesday, January 25, 2011

How to Run a Platoon

I've seen a lot of people trying to run platoons, and I gotta say, I'm not really impressed. There seems to be a lot of this going around:

Platoon Command Squad + 4 Meltaguns + Chimera
10 man squad + autocannon
10 man squad + autocannon
Commisar + Power Weapon

Let me be clear here: this is not good. A 21-man guard squad is not going to be the bubble wrap you need to stop enemies from getting to you, the PCS does the job worse than vets and are much less survivable to boot, and you have hardly any offensive power in the squad itself! If you're looking to block, investing in vets is a better option and gets you more killing power. (The squad above is worth 2 meltavets and change.)

So what is another way to build a platoon? These kind of squads are "cheap", but not really good for their points. We don't want to try and use them to spam chimeras, because vets do a much better job of it. (Since they can pack 3 special weapons per squad, and have the awesome BS4.) So, what does the platoon excel at?

Now, I don't want to give the wrong impression: the platoon is actually a pretty powerful choice if used correctly. The trick is in maximizing all your options. So let's take a look, and we can figure out what the best (or at least a very good) way to run a platoon is.

To start, we MUST take the following options:
Platoon Command Squad
2x Infantry Squads
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Let's start with the command squad.
It's 5 guys, rocking the BS3. Order range of 6". Orders are quite powerful for the options the platoon brings, so we want them to be mobile, and a bit protected. This bit at least, gets a Chimera. (ML/HF of course)

For weapon options, we want to keep it cheap but good. This squad is going to be hanging around the big blob, ideally not advancing forwards to much, so we don't really want meltas. (As they would have to run forward to use them, and will probably die the next turn.) We need a defensive weapon, ideally one that is suited to taking out infantry, since we're guard and we're not really hurting for transport-popping. Oh, and we don't want to try and pretend that we can mix it up in melee with ANYBODY. We also want to maintain a focus, because if we try to make the squad good at a lot of things, we'll end up being very expensive and not good at anything.

Flamers!

4 flamers (or 3 and a HF if you want to spend 15 extra points, I'd probably avoid it) is extremely potent with this squad. Not only do you mitigate the BS of 3, but you get an extremely powerful offensive weapon against any enemy infantry. Remember, they all fire out of the hatch, so when you shoot you place your favorite flamer template and multiply the hits by 4X. That kind of shot not only messes up horde infantry (who evaporate) but it also does a fair number on marines and other 3+ or worse infantry. To add insult to injury, the chimera can help pick on the survivors. It's also nice, because no one snipes the flamer chimera unless they have NOTHING else to shoot at. It's simply not a threat, or a priority for your opponent, until it's too late.
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Okay, got the command squad. Now, what about the infantry squads?

We need to take 2 squads. Putting them in Chimeras is bad, we don't want to do that, as the squad inside is very close to worthless. So what are they good for on foot?

Combined squads is very powerful, as it lets us eliminate the huge kill-point inflation that taking multiple 10 man squads would be, and allows us to affect up to 50 men with a single order. Keep that in mind. As we add more men to the squad, it becomes more resilient, but it's offensive power doesn't increase that much, simply because guardsmen aren't that good at killing things. I mean, yeah, a bunch of lasguns will kill things, but they're not THAT effective, and it won't kill off an assault coming at you. Adding heavy weapons is bad, because then we're wasting the squad shooting at vehicles, or the weapons shooting at infantry. Special weapons have much the same issue, since the squad is slow and unprotected by armor, they're generally ineffective, if they get to fire at all. That's not to say their useless, but the points are probably better spent elsewhere. So, we don't really want ranged weapon upgrades.

What we want is melee upgrades.

First, we need a commissar. It's worthless if we break as soon as we hit CC and get swept. Second, we need power weapons. Power weapons for everyone! Or at least everyone that can take them. So, sergeants.

Now, for the big question: how many guard is enough guard?

40. 40 is the number. (Okay, 41 with the Commissar)

How do I know that? Playtesting. And a lot of it. 40 man has a lot of strength, without getting cumbersome, and allows you to stick around as long as you need to. I'll illustrate why you want this many in a second.

So, with 40 men, we have 15 power weapon attacks, 20 on the charge. Not bad, but only S3 though so not really great either. We kill about 2.5 marines with 15 PW attacks and the rest of the squad might bring down 2.

Now, here's the part where people think: That's not a good assault unit. But you'd be wrong there too. Yeah, you, the guy who's running a lab where they're fighting pimped-out Grey Hunters. The blob have a few hidden strengths that aren't immediately apparent.

The first is that it is very good in continuing combats. Most of your killing power is in 5 guys, but your opponent can't even touch them until he kills the 35 that are standing in front of them. That means when you lose 10 guys in your 41 man squad, you don't lose 1/4 of your killing power, you lose about 1/8. This is huge, as it means you get to keep hitting hard every assault phase up until the end.

The second is that you choose when you want the squad to break with a VERY high degree of accuracy. This is why you take 40 men- there's not much that can chew through them in 3 assault phases, even most dedicated melee units will need four. That means you get to stall the opponent until juuuuuuuust before the squad dies, then make sure it happens in the opponents assault phase, leaving them flat-footed, and ready to be shot. (You're platoon command squad excels at this kind of cleanup!) How do you make sure they break? Simple. Assign a wound to the Commissar. You'll almost certainly be testing on Ld2, and you'll break. It'll be good times.

With this setup, you have a huge advantage over big melee units that come after you. You can control when you fight them, (if you don't outright kill them) and they can't slip past the big 40-man barrier to get at the good stuff. This is, in my humble opinion, by far the best "bubble wrap" unit in the game.

While we're on the subject, let's talk a bit about orders and how to use this squad.
First, and a I must stress this again: do not take heavy weapons in the squad. It's wasted points, you'll never fire them. You want to be doing one of two things with the squad, which are summarized neatly by two orders:
1.) Incoming! and
2.) Move move MOVE!

If you just have them stand there, they will die. Fortunately, we have a Commissar there to make sure orders are obeyed (Ld 9) and that they all stay alive long enough to meet their execution to enemy blades.

Generally, you'll want to sit back with them. Let them sit in front of everything! It's not hard to get half the squad in cover, then order Incoming! to give them a 2+ cover save. Want to make sure you get the charge on something? No problem, you can always Get Back in the Fight!

In the rare cases where you feel you must charge the enemy down, the platoon is almost as fast as your mech stuff with Move move MOVE! Be aware that the movement happens at different times, though, so you'll still want to keep it a bit out of the way.

First rank, FIRE! Second rank, FIRE! is okay, but not awesome like a lot of people seem to think. Generally it's better to charge, and at least deny the enemy all those juicy kills. There are situations where it's good, but generally, you should be going to ground or getting into a place where you can set up your own charge.

Finally, I want to throw in a note about dreadnoughts. It'd be pretty rough if one were to hit the squad. So, don't let one hit the squad. You are playing freaking guard, you can take on an AV12 tank that slowly walks towards you. That's pretty much an ideal situation right there. If you can't stop it from happening, here's my advice: shrug it off. Yeah, it's probably not a good trade, but it's one you can recover from. Next time, watch the dread and try to not let it hit the squad.

Of course, you could buy krak grenades, but that's wishful thinking and a waste in my opinion.
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So, what we have so far is this:
Platoon Command Squad
+4 Flamers
+Chimera (ML/HF)

Infantry Squad
+Power Weapon
Infantry Squad
+Power Weapon
Infantry Squad
+Power Weapon
Infantry Squad
+Power Weapon
Commisar
+Power Weapon

That comes in at 390 points. That probably seems expensive, but it really isn't that bad. Remember, the strength of this squad isn't that it's going to kill a huge points value of units, but that it will provide us with a HUGE obstacle that the opponent has to deal with before he can hit our valuable back line. This also makes some choices, like the classic Leman Russ, MUCH better. There's not much that can shoot a Russ to death at long range, and if the enemy can't get to it swiftly... you can wreak some havoc.

It also opens up some neat options for us, now that we've found a way to make a mandatory part good. Like these!:
Heavy Weapons Teams
You can take 5. You will probably never take all 5, but the option is nice.
Run them with autocannons. Nothing else, the other options are not good. (Or at least not very points-efficient) Heavy weapon teams with the Bring it Down! order are a whole new level of light anti-tank, and they won't let you down. An excellent choice for hybrid lists, and generally a better pick than the Hydra in this kind of list. You'll probably have a command squad around them, but we'll get to that in a minute.

If you're buying the platoon, you'd be a bit remiss not to pick up at least 2 autocannon heavy weapon squads.

Special Weapon Teams
This is not, generally, a very good squad. We don't want them in a chimera pretending to be vets, and we sure as hell don't want them on foot. So what are they good for?

One thing, at least. give them 3 meltaguns, put them in a Vendetta. (Not a valk, I mean, we bring enough anti-infantry at this point.) Not only does this net you an awesome scoring flyer for cheap, it also gives you the option of first-turn dropping and alpha striking things like Land Raiders. (All of you should read that article, it pays to know!)

Conscripts
Ahahahahahahahhahahahha
Do not take them ever.
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There's one (okay, it's kind of 2) unit(s) I want to talk about before I go, and that's the Company Command Squad.

Backing this setup with a Company Command Squad is cheap, easy, and gets you something good for that mandatory HQ. The best option, in my opinion, is this:
Company Command Squad
+4 Plasma Guns
+Chimera (ML/HF)

Medipack? F the medipack, we live dangerous in these parts. Also, we don't care, because that squad is going to spend all of it's time doing one of three things.
1) Shooting MCs
2) Shooting light vehicles, like transports
3) Shooting stupid dreadnoughts.
And guess what? We can Bring it down! ALL of those, which wipes out most of our overheat chance! And when we're not firing, we're twin-linking the shots of our heavy weapons teams! Booyah! This command setup is the one I recommend not just for this list, but all guard lists. It works extremely well in mechanized lists too. As a side note, if you bring Vendettas and Valks, bring an astropath. If you have the points, a Master of the Fleet is never a waste either.

The second thing I want to talk about is Straken. Straken is not someone we want to bring if we bring a single platoon, for the following reasons:
1.) He's expensive
2.) He requires an expensive command squad to make full use of his expensive body
3.) We'd really like an anti-tank ranged command squad in most situations.

Now, this isn't to say he always isn't worth it. If you bring two platoons, get him without a doubt. The S4 I4 charge is completely lethal. He's just not worth his cost in one.

This is running long, but I will share the ideal Straken loadout with shortened explanation under each piece of wargear.
Company Command Squad
Straken
+Heavy Flamer (This squad plays it forward)
+Medipack (This squad needs resiliency)
+2 Meltaguns (This squad needs to be able to shoot transports and assault inside in a pinch)
+Bodyguard (We love to pawn off a bunch of that first volley of wounds onto one guy)
+Carapace Armor (So boltguns don't annihilate us)
+Chimera (HF/ML) (Because mech is king)

It's expensive, deceptively good, and not worth it unless it's backing a lot of infantry. Remember this.
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So, in summery, I thought a fun thing to do would be to give you a strong base for a list to build off of. Here we go:
HQ
Company Command Squad

+4 Plasma Guns
+Chimera (ML/HF)
+Astropath

Troops
Platoon Command Squad

+4 Flamers
+Chimera (ML/HF)
Infantry Squads
+Power Weapon
Infantry Squad
+Power Weapon
Infantry Squad
+Power Weapon
Infantry Squad
+Power Weapon
Commisar
+Power Weapon
Heavy Weapons Team
+3 Autocannons
Heavy Weapons Team
+3 Autocannons
Heavy Weapons Team
+3 Autocannons
Special Weapons Team
+3 Meltaguns
Special Weapons Team
+3 Meltaguns

Fast Attack
Vendetta
Vendetta

That comes to 1200 on the dot, unless I miss my mark. See what you can do to bump it up to 2000. If you come up with a list you think is good, or just entertaining, send it to sirbiscuit@gmail.com. I'll post the best ones up with my comments; that sounds like a good time. Until next time troopers!

Comments (34)

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The Platoon you have is definitely one of the better ways you can run things, but I like getting a lot of shooty with my bubblewrap; three squads with Lascannon/Sniper Rifle and a Vox stuck in there somewhere gives you quite a lot of wounds protecting your heavy weapons and a fairly reliable way to twin-link your Lascannons; the Rifles are just there so you have something else when shooting light transports/heavy infantry/MCs. You could give them Plasma Guns to work with the AP2 and take advantage of orders, I suppose, but I don't like sinking the points for that. A Commissar can be added, but isn't strictly necessary- the enemy needs to direct rather a lot of shooting at the unit to actually force a morale check.

The PCS setup you have is basically golden, but if you're on foot (because you don't want to invest the points for a transport, etc) 4x Grenade Launcher works decently, as does Autocannon/Sniper.

Including a Meltagun or two (mostly for Death or Glory) in the big blob you recommend can also work reasonably well.
4 replies · active 739 weeks ago
Which means you can dictate where they don't go.
Being able to stop them from Tank Shocking your dudes away from whatever they're protecting is useful, and since they can only travel in straight lines, you can pretty easily "protect" the whole squad with just two of them.
You make a good point. Meltaguns are far from useless in the squad anyway- I mainly don't like including them because I want to spend the points elsewhere. "In for a penny, in for a pound" is, as I am sure you are aware, a terrible way to approach unit design in 40k.

I guess I would look at the anti-tank capabilities of the rest of the list before buying them, but they could be an invaluable addition. Thank you for the tip. =)
How 'bout a power fist on the commissar? For extra insurance?
2 replies · active 739 weeks ago
willydstyle's avatar

willydstyle · 739 weeks ago

Platoon commissars can't purchase fists, and even if they could it would be piss-poor insurance because STR6 isn't doing anything to most walkers. If you want insurance, get some melta bombs on sarges, but I kind of agree that you should be killing most dreads before they get to CC you in most games.
If you could buy powerfists instead of power swords, you would, as they are 15 points instead of 10 for the power sword in the guard dex. Not to fight dreadnoughts, but it makes you MUCH more potent against enemy infantry.

But alas, you cannot. GW saw that one coming and nipped it in the bud.
Excuse me for the double post, but I can't seem to find an edit button anywhere.

Let's take this back from a gaming perspective. Pretty gruesome, eh? You are counting on that big group of men to last ~ x amount of time, while you purposefully kill their leader, so they all die when you want them to.

I think the IG, as an army on the table top, don't let "rules" or the fact that you are playing a "game" interfere with their spirit.

Their spirit of GRIMDARK.
7 replies · active 739 weeks ago
You're using your player's ability to control narrative events to construct a particular one. Picture the scene: the valiant Guardsmen, who've fought and died in their dozens to hold the line. The Commisar, leading from the front, sword in his hand and a prayer on his lips. He takes a bullet to the throat, or a chainsword to the gut, and crumples. The Guardsmen's spirit is broken - they turn, and flee from the fight, into the fog of war. The line is lost - the alien triumphs. Then you see it; lights in the mist. Then you hear it; the rumble of engines and the roar of weapons. The cavalry are here. The Guardsmens' sacrifice has done it; it's turned the tide.

By choosing when the Commissar falls, you're choosing when that narrative event triggers - at the moment when that follow-up is ready, then you can get that war-movie climax. The fact that it's a sensible tactic is notable mainly for the ease with which good tactics and creating a good story mesh, for once: they aren't mutually exclusive.

Use your imagination. Don't let the fluff use you.
This. This exactly. Rules are set; narrative is flexible. You can have a rationale- even a good one- for most events.

I wish I could like a comment more than once.
I wish you could as well.
I think you're essentially agreeing with each other, at least that's the way I read your posts- but I enjoyed the story. =)
I'm sure we are. I don't usually go cruising to disagree with people; more to comment, or to clarify, or to expand.
Excellent! I was just thinking that, as a player, you are expecting that unit to die, but last a certain amount of time.

It reminded me of the deep days of the Cold War - when battleships were expected to last 5 minutes, infantry seconds, etc. As a 40k player, you are taking the unit with the full intention for them to die. Other armies have units that may be used for suicide missions, but they are either bugs, superhumans that selflessly give their lives for humanity, or they love combat so much that suicide missions are fun. But these are regular men. Modern armies do everything in their willpower to give their soldiers the best chance of survival.

The tactic is usually born of darker, more desperate days. I suppose that's why it seems gruesome to me. But don't get me wrong. I'm going to use it. :)
Indeed!

I honestly feel that the Guard and the Craftworld Eldar are the most genuinely tragic races in all the forty-first millennium; they're the only ones who commit ordinary people to the battlefield, and the only ones where those ordinary people take on a role which they are fully expected not to survive.

My pal Shiny has always complained about the strange attitude of the Eldar, who send their butchers, bakers, candlestick-makers and manufacturers of bespoke musical instruments not only into combat, but into the very worst 'here is your basic equipment, now HOLD THIS GROUND' aspects of combat. It seems like curiously suicidal behaviour for a dying race; as you say, such tactics are born of dark and desperate days, when the survival of your people is less important than the state of the world you leave behind you.
I almost always run my platoons as a shooty speed bump. They get 3x infantry squad with AC GL and a commissar and that's it. PCS is as you've done. Add in 2x AC HWS and we're done.

If you're really wanting a unit that can throw down in CC, though, add an eviscerator priest- gives you another power weapon and a cheapish way to deal with vehicles "just in case"
2 replies · active 739 weeks ago
I'm not sold on the priest. Also, I can't believe I forgot to mention him. =P Guess that shows my opinion of him.

Mostly, he only really buffs you on the charge, has to avoid melee so he doesn't get punk killed for being a T3 5+ IC, and he costs a fair amount of points. I'm just not convinced there's a case for him when the vast majority of the time he'll die before the swing.
Well he does have a rosarius, so a 4++. Which in theory would make for some epic moments regarding a Dread Charging you: Dread forces 1 or 2 wound on your priest > you save them > you kill the Dreadnought > Beer for everyone!

But alright that's not gonna happen on a regular basis of course ^^ Priest is pretty bad I'm afraid; 60 points for 1 with his little chainfist.
Very well written and informative article, thank you. First post so please be gentle....

Can I just mention the conscripts? I appreciate they are universally drubbed, but (as I use them as part of my penal legion) if you set them up in a 50 man squad and attach a Commissar Lord, they can be quite resilient. They seem to mirror the ability of your Platoon, albeit minus a few power weapons.

Perhaps this could be taken to greater extreme with 2 full platoons and a 50 man conscript squad? Lol, just the thought of painting that lot nakes me feel light headed!

Any suggestions on an effective alternative way to run the conscripts would be appreciated.
2 replies · active 739 weeks ago
Angry Marine's avatar

Angry Marine · 739 weeks ago

Only problem is that power weapons are generally much more better at wounding heavy infantry then, say, about 8 conscipts. BS and WS 2 is a pretty big deal, as almost all figures is double their WS and they will be hitting on a +5 in both melee and ranged combat. This means they are good at providing many, many cheap wounds, but those cheap wounds can't really do all that much else. They just don't have any weapon quaility in order to deal damage.

Conscripts are fun, but I could only really see them coming into their own in huge games, where often points are not really that importent, though then it could be spent on more combat blobs.
I thought you had to be *more* than double to force the 5+?
antique_nova's avatar

antique_nova · 739 weeks ago

taak has taken control of the way i speak. so i will it like this 'i think your suggestions are crap, seriously guard are NOT BUILT for your build that you are suggesting so strongly'. sorry about that, but taak has a got to me XD.
the build your dissing is THE BEST build.
Angry Marine's avatar

Angry Marine · 739 weeks ago

Also, don't you need a second troops choice by the way?
1 reply · active 739 weeks ago
Your second Troops choice is proably Vets with meltaguns. There's pushing the boat out, and then there's crazy talk.
I found this article very interesting.

I'm also interested in the reason why autocannon heavy teams are better then hydras in a hybrid list? I had given up on heavy teams as they always seem to dissappear quickly for me (as anti inf and anti tank both work well against them), but your comment might make me give them another try. Could you elaborate a little?
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
I think he may have had "This also makes some choices, like the classic Leman Russ, MUCH better." in mind.
Hydras compete for the same slot as the Russ. The AC teams do not and would fullfil a similar role. Although Hydras appear to be more survivable than HW squads, i do not think they are in Biscuit's concept. It would be hard to get armor saturation after having sunk ~1000 points into infantry. So the low Av Hydra would probably succumb to medium strength weaponry. To overcome this, you can stick what points you have left in higher Av tanks, such as the Russ.
Do not get me wrong, Hydras do work like a charm. But I would use them when you are spamming loads of Chimeras. (I believe Stelek has done such a list as critical mass IG). In the current concept, the platoon works very well in conjunction with the good ol' Leman Russ Battletank doing the heavy lifting...
Badger[Fr]'s avatar

Badger[Fr] · 739 weeks ago

I don't agree on your assessment of Heavy Weapons in Infantry squad. Claiming that Lasgun shots are "wasted" when you target a vehicle is a fallacy, because versatility almost always trumps overspecialisation. Tactical Marines favour Multi-Meltas for a reason.

Moreover, contrary to vehicles, combined platoons are very survivable and can't be shaken. Three Lascannons in a 30 man combined squad can fire almost the entire game, whereas a Vendetta will often be dead by turn two.

Combined platoons may not be horrible assault units, but they only shine against Marines and other elite armies. They're still slow, vulnerable, and will die to Ork boyz or Gaunts.
I like having at least one meltabomb in the unit for dread protection. I also think heavy weapons and special weapons are totally worth it. Other than that, agree with everything. HUzzah!
4 replies · active 738 weeks ago
If a Dread is foolish enough to charge your blob, you have effectively destroyed that Dread already by simple virtue that his two attacks each turn will NEVER kill them all.
Unless that dread pulls your blob off an objective...
I also like putting some MBs into the squad.
This way instead of the Dread and the Platoon neutralizing each other, I'll win the fight eventually and the Platoon will be able to do something later.
Especially if you put Heavy Weapons into the squad, you want to be able to break away from the Dread's block, and sack some QB later in the game, rather than get tied up at the line of scrimmage for the entire game.
Or he has effectively destroyed you. Consider that Dreads usually cost ~120 points and that one of these blobs costs almost 400.
omgitsduane's avatar

omgitsduane · 696 weeks ago

I've been running a 32 man squad of infantry, with a commisar and priest (the re-roll on the first turn really hurts them) With straken around, the majority of the plebs get a chance to do their bit too, but I use powerfists as their killing power is better for only 5 points more its almost a guaranteed wound on a space marine model.

And only beaten once in combat, by an equal number of space marines ha.

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