3++ is the new black. | Kirb your enthusiasm!: New 40k FAQs: Including Black Templars and Dark Angels

Friday, January 14, 2011

New 40k FAQs: Including Black Templars and Dark Angels

Posted by Unknown

Ya, GW updated their stuff. Again. Quick run-down:

pg 9 has been clarified. Turn = player turn.
p46 still stands with tank shocks and falling back. you auto-fail.

And then the huge doozy guys. BT and DA have been updated. Like actually updated. As in, your wargear is the same as SMs. 2 years later.

It looks like BA may have been updated as well but haven't gone through the nitty gritty of it yet. So let's praise something, hope Jervis has been fired and hope GW keeps this up in terms of keeping their rules up to date. I mean, maybe they'll change the Nid FAQ?

FAQ page is here.

Edit: it appears these were done in December but not put up until now according to the GW website...

Comments (65)

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-1 Vote up Vote down

Frowbakk · 741 weeks ago

Not only a rules update for BT Storm Shields (the 3++), but a price INCREASE as well. Time to start re-pointing those lists...

2 replies · active 741 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Dezzo · 741 weeks ago

But the important thing is the BT Terminator SS get its boost with no point increase. Goes the same for DA too.

+1 Vote up Vote down

SageoftheTimes 77p · 741 weeks ago

You mean 5 more points to turn a shit upgrade into an awesome one?

+2 Vote up Vote down

Bartali · 741 weeks ago

That Deathwing Command squad is looking quite nice now. 295pts for 5xTH/SS+CML, 3 base Attacks and FNP. I'd imagine doing a turn one DWA with that will be exciting !

+3 Vote up Vote down

VT2 79p · 741 weeks ago

I'm gonna dig out my salamander terminators and run them as deathwing.

0 Vote up Vote down

Katie Drake · 741 weeks ago

Bah, it's going to take the Army Builder guys like 150 years to update to take all this into account, but it'll be so worth it. Sweet, succulent, logical FAQs...

3 replies · active 741 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Marshal_Wilhelm 61p · 741 weeks ago

pen, paper and an adding machine Miss Drake :)

+1 Vote up Vote down

SageoftheTimes 77p · 741 weeks ago

Army Builder is still wrong these days, codex + word pad + calculator isn't.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Aurenian 57p · 741 weeks ago

A simple excel spreadsheet works just fine.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Kirby 118p · 741 weeks ago

SM also has an update. I like this one:

Q. If Marneus Calgar chooses to pass a Morale Check
using his God of War special rule does he, and any unit he
has joined, count as Fearless? (p84)
A. No.

Suck it everyone. I said it from the beginning =D.

1 reply · active 741 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

sirbiscuit 81p · 741 weeks ago

But also...
"squads that are placed in reserve may not... ...combat squad."

+2 Vote up Vote down

Nikephoros · 741 weeks ago

Best BT upgrade: Heavy 2 Cyclones. Tank Hunters + Heavy 2 Cyclones that you can fit 5 squads of in 2k. Guess who is coming to dinner?

0 Vote up Vote down

Gramps · 741 weeks ago

HOLY CRAP WTF PWNED!

Guess my Deathwing are coming back out and might have to be used for NOVA this summer. What a great, late Christmas present.

5 replies · active 741 weeks ago

+3 Vote up Vote down

Nikephoros · 741 weeks ago

Yeah, this is better than a new 5th Edition Codex for BT. We gain all the 5th edition shiny things, without losing the special rules that made the codex great.

+3 Vote up Vote down

kannascrusade 33p · 741 weeks ago

Minus old smoke..... RIP Old Smoke! You were good to me.

+3 Vote up Vote down

Kirby 118p · 741 weeks ago

I think 200% of BT players prefer this new setup...lol

+1 Vote up Vote down

Marshal_Wilhelm 61p · 741 weeks ago

Yes.

But 58 pts for a Rhino that ignored stunned [reduced to shaken] and still hauled 12" was gold.
And the things couldn't be destroy [practically] on the turn smoke popped. Very handy in a rush application. Gold for LRC.
Now we pay 53 pts for a 35 pt Rhino. So 18 pts more for no 'yeah I'll just move how I want anyway' smoke launches.

We used to have incense launchers, but now we run smoke like everyone else....

+1 Vote up Vote down

sodcactus · 741 weeks ago

If only in making smoke work as in the rest of the 5th Ed, they would've included smokelaunchers in the vehicle price. Now BT still have to pay for smoke and it's no better than the other Space Marines that get it for "free" on their vehicle. It's not like we don't pay a premium for our Rhinos like it is.... (obs irony)

0 Vote up Vote down

Killmaimburn · 741 weeks ago

they put in another big error.

"because squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads."
I knew that 5 man entering one way (e.g. in a razorback) and 5 walking on was controversial (because of people trying to use sicarus stuff to have some people outflank and some infiltrate etc)
....but a total ban on any part of 2x5man split squad entering the table even by walking on?

(so that means no 5 man 2 melta assualt squad DSing from BA, no smurf bike squads split being allowed to roll onto the table etc etc etc)
BUTTHURT :(

6 replies · active 741 weeks ago

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Rugrud 14p · 741 weeks ago

Yes, i find it ... strange at best also. It raises a lot more questions than it answers...

0 Vote up Vote down

Killmaimburn · 741 weeks ago

I stand corrected..MajorWesJanson on WS; "Nope. It works.
"The decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed." Codex SM, pg 51. It works because squads are not split when placed in reserve, but when they arrive on the table. "
So it just means BA DSing to melta have to have the other half DS elsewhere on the table, i guess. (also means blob squads can choose as they walk on to blob or not to blob)

+1 Vote up Vote down

TheKingElessar 71p · 741 weeks ago

That means you make one roll and get 2 units...I'm not sure that was the intention.

Although, I suppose it IS that way for IG Platoons...

0 Vote up Vote down

Lurking Horror · 741 weeks ago

In what way is it controversial? The original text of Combat Squads in the Dark Angels Codex specifically stated "Units held in reserve cannot be split into combat squads, and vice versa". While the text in the Codex Marines doesn't specifically state this, it does say "The decision to split the unit into combat squads [...] must be made when the unit is deployed".

Deployed means on the table. Reserves is not deployed. You keep it in reserve, you can't combat squad it. The only exception is non-Dark Angels Drop Pods, in which case you may choose to Combat Squad when they land.

Also, I f'ing knew it with Marneus and his God of War rule. No Retreat my arse, he's too good for that :)

0 Vote up Vote down

Erwos · 741 weeks ago

You're missing the point. You can split them AT DEPLOYMENT. You cannot split them once you deploy them to reserves.

0 Vote up Vote down

Killmaimburn · 741 weeks ago

Apparently deployment is deferred by reserving them (I got smacked around by SO many people for not remembering that)deploying is not (BRB "at the end of deployment") a stage, its a state of mind when entering the board. Which does fix half my gripes, leaving only that BA ASM 5 man DSing means the other 5 *must* DS elsewhere and 5 of 10 may never roll on in a razorback (as vehicles must be occupied in reserves and you can't fit in until you split as you enter.. "and consequently can only be kept in reserve, either empty or transporting the unit it was selected with" Some people have probably been playing that way since DA..,meh :D

+1 Vote up Vote down

Erwos · 741 weeks ago

I'm looking forward to seeing some Deathwing and BT armies on the table again.

Too bad GW can't fix Chaos the same way. Well, maybe they could give krak to Havoc launchers and give autocannons to my Obliterators? *sigh* Screw it, at this point, I'd just take clarification on fire frenzy.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Bartali · 741 weeks ago

Thunderbubble list for DA please Kirby

0 Vote up Vote down

maddoc · 741 weeks ago

Did i miss the DE FAQ or is it also new?

+3 Vote up Vote down

Evil-Termite · 741 weeks ago

"I mean, maybe they'll change the Nid FAQ?" You tease sir!

+1 Vote up Vote down

TheKingElessar 71p · 741 weeks ago

You all realise Blood Chalices are now worse?

2 replies · active 741 weeks ago

0 Vote up Vote down

Erwos · 741 weeks ago

Meh, not a ton. A lot of the problems with Sang Priests were from players not understanding the rules for ICs leaving a squad, and having to charge first in an assault.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Kirby 118p · 741 weeks ago

That was clarified last update so nothing new there.

+2 Vote up Vote down

sirbiscuit 81p · 741 weeks ago

Ya know, this is really most exciting for Deathwing... having real SS suddenly makes that army terrifying.

2 replies · active 741 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

sodcactus · 741 weeks ago

My BT Furious Charge CC-Terminatorsquad equipped with LC and TH/SS is quite excited as well

+2 Vote up Vote down

Bro_Lo 82p · 741 weeks ago

I'm not sure it will alter the layout of my 5 man squads to be honest (3xLC & 2xTH/SS), but it's nice that those 2 hammernators are a little more survivable and that the unit doesn't auto-die when shot by AP2 weaponry.

0 Vote up Vote down

Lurking Horror · 741 weeks ago

SneakyDan - I did point out to you that tranported units also count as Deep Striking the turn they arrive. No Dark Eldar shenanigans with first turn charges, thanks very much :)

+3 Vote up Vote down

SinSynn · 741 weeks ago

Wow- GW did something....right?
OMG.

+1 Vote up Vote down

snugger 43p · 741 weeks ago

Ok, I've always wanted to field a Terminator-army, but I've never done so. Could anyone whip up a quick 1750p Deathwing list for me as a basic start?

1 reply · active 741 weeks ago

0 Vote up Vote down

maddoc · 741 weeks ago

Something along the lines of:

Beli
2 SB/Fist CML Squads
5 TH/SS CML Squads(1 elite), one with FNP
Walk the two objective camp squads on the field, Drop 3 TH/SS via Deathwing assault in the first turn, rest reserves normal.
You have to fiddle arround with the points a little bit.

0 Vote up Vote down

Dezzo · 741 weeks ago

Belial
DW Squad. 2 TH/SS, 3 SB/PF (attach Belial in this squad)
DW Squad. 2 TH/SS, 3 SB/PF + 1 Cyclone
DW Squad. 2 TH/SS, 3 SB/PF + 1 Cyclone
DW Squad. 2 TH/SS, 3 SB/PF + 1 Cyclone
DW Squad. 2 TH/SS, 3 SB/PF + 1 Cyclone
DW Squad. 2 TH/SS, 3 SB/PF + 1 Cyclone

Landspeeder, MM/HF
Landspeeder, MM/HF
Landspeeder, MM/HF

0 Vote up Vote down

Gramps · 741 weeks ago

Couple quick pure DW lists from a long time DW player:

1750 List
Belial TH/SS 130
Terminator Libby 140
DW Squad-4 TH/SS, 1LC,CML,Apoth,Banner 290
3 x DW Squad-4 TH/SS, 1Lc, CML 235(each)
DW Squad-4 SB, 1 CF, 1 AC 250
DW Squad-4 SB, 1 CML, 1 TH/SS 235

1850 List
Belial TH/SS 130
Terminator Libby 140
DW Squad-4 TH/SS, 1LC,CML,Banner 260
2 x DW Squad-4 TH/SS, 1Lc, CML 235(each)
DW Squad-4 SB, 1 CML, 1 TH/SS 235
DW Squad-4 SB, 1 CML, 1 TH/SS, 1 CF 240
LRC 250
Dread w/AC 125

To increase to 2k, take the 1750 list and add:
Either LRC 250
OR
2 x Dread w/AC 125(each)

+1 Vote up Vote down

Hulksmash · 741 weeks ago

Some of you are missing the other awesome in the DA FAQ. Guess how much our Typhoons cost? 75pts beotches!!!!! Just a fun fact. You can actually build a termie army with proper support now. I'm going to be playing with army builder for a while. This and the BT FAQ's can make for some sick combo's!

0 Vote up Vote down

The Antipope · 741 weeks ago

I like the fact that a SM unit can move more now if it was failed a morale check on previous turn and regroups. Only if ytou rolled snake eyes for your fall back movement of course but still it's a fun fact and it will happen in a few games, somewhere at some point!

1 reply · active 741 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

VT2 79p · 741 weeks ago

They always could, but it was never official until now.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Bro_Lo 82p · 741 weeks ago

I <3 you GW...

+5 Vote up Vote down

Zjoekov 74p · 741 weeks ago

Black Templars are suddenly one of the best armies and Deathwing is at least viable again; now that's what I call a FAQ with impact.

5 replies · active 740 weeks ago

+1 Vote up Vote down

Marshal_Wilhelm 61p · 741 weeks ago

Surely Templars don't touch Bloods, Wolves and Guard?!

+1 Vote up Vote down

VT2 79p · 741 weeks ago

Templars and deathwing are on par with the other marines now.
Not better, at all, just different - which is good.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Marshal_Wilhelm 61p · 741 weeks ago

So the real changes are good SS, CML and Typhoons [which are 20 pts cheaper, btw]

On the other side, we pay 53 pts for a Rhino w/ smoke. *shrugs*

My gut feeling is that whilst buffed Terms are nice, it wont be enough to offset paying 18 pts too much for a Rhino and a tl LC Razorback, especially considering the LasPlas is the premier 'Back. I'm not trying to be a downer, I just honestly feel that Templars are still behind, even if the gap has narrowed.

What do you think?

+1 Vote up Vote down

Zjoekov 74p · 741 weeks ago

I think overall BT get (over)compensated enough for the overcosted Rhinos. Your Typhoons are much cheaper (20 points) and those Termie squads seem very good... Couple that with the fact that you can put a Heavy + Special in 5 man squads and we got a winner. Not because of these individual good things, but because these can be made into 1 working build. In the end it's all about the whole list. It doesn't look a lot weaker to me than any other top build at the moment... But that's the theory and therefore I'm probably going to play with this build myself to see how good it is.

So the build being roughly for 2k:
EC; accept vow
3x Termie squad with 2x Cyclone, TH
2x2 Typhoon speeders
1x2 MM/HF speeder
2x5 Marines; MM/plasma, rhino
2x5 Marines; Lass/plasma, rhino

I think this is how I would run it at the moment.

+1 Vote up Vote down

VT2 79p · 740 weeks ago

Templars never relied on rhinos in the first place, but did the classic las/plas five man squad.
When you have all those tankhunting missiles, you don't really notice the lack of transports.

+1 Vote up Vote down

TheDuke · 741 weeks ago

lol at 4th edition codexes with 5th edition rules? Why even bother with Vanilla marines. TH/SS with missiles and FNP? I'm going home.

3 replies · active 741 weeks ago

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Hulksmash · 741 weeks ago

You do realize that is only for a single unit right? You can only have a single FnP terminator unit in a DA army. This just made DA's + BT's playable. It didn't push them past any of the current codexes.

+1 Vote up Vote down

Bro_Lo 82p · 741 weeks ago

2 x Castellan (TA, SS, PW), Terminator Command Squad - 2 x CML, Tank Hunters = 690
3 x 5 BT terminators + 2 CMLs + Tank Hunters = 795

5 units with 4 BS4 Tank-Hunting, Missiles in Terminator armour for 1485 - Thank you please.

I'm only joking really, but it's nice to have doubled the potential fire power AND increase survivability of my beloved BT space marines.

+1 Vote up Vote down

VT2 79p · 741 weeks ago

Add 6 typhoon speeders for 70 points each, and the rest into las/plas squads.

0 Vote up Vote down

Gramps · 741 weeks ago

Yup, it is only one unit and by no means does this break anything with DW. All it does is make their wargear the same as codex: SM. (This FAQ should have come out as soon as codex: SM was released.) But, this does make a foot slogging DW list much more viable. That one squad with Belial attached, as you can see from my list above, has 6 models with different stats for wound allocation, 5 with a 2+/3++. 1) Belial, 2) TH/SS, 3) LC, 4) Apothecary w/ TH/SS, 5) CML w/ TH/SS, 6) TH/SS w/ banner. IIRC, you can't use an Apothecary in CC, so I would only use it in a foot slogging list. Gonna try out one of those lists monday.

0 Vote up Vote down

Digilante · 741 weeks ago

Awesome, I have a ton of terminator models I got on the cheap and now I think its time to build me a deathwing!

0 Vote up Vote down

Waaagh! i'm an Ork! · 741 weeks ago

Too bad i already built my terminators, those storm shields would have come in handy. Oh well Lightning claws are cool too.

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