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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him

Thursday, February 24, 2011

Email in: List critique request: Lysander-wrap

"Hi Kirby,

I have a small Imperial Fists army that I thoroughly enjoy using in friendly games. It is not very competitive on paper, so I don't often take it to tournaments. However, I've recently gotten the itch to design and play a Lysander Bubble-wrap list at this years 'ard Boyz, and local 'ard Boyz-prep 2500 point tourneys (though 1750-1850 is still the norm around my area). But before I buy new models, I want to get some quality feedback on the concept and list. With that in mind, I'd be grateful for your comments and critiques. So without further ado:

How much would you be buying? We can try to minimise this if possible. I'm not a huge Lysander fan. He's great to have in a shooty unit like Sternguard or Shootynators but then kicks butt in combat and handing out S10 attacks. Stubborn is so-so; I really prefer combat tactics as it gives your army that extra mobility, particularly when you've got a bubble-wrap protection. However, generating a 3+ cover area for Shootynators to sit in is always nice and makes them a very serious option outside of TH/SS. Issue here then is Black Templars do that sort of list very well now as well... Anyway, let's check your list.

Captain Darnath Lysander, 200 pts
Space Marine Librarian in Power Armour, Null Zone, Avenger, 100 pts

10 Terminators, 2 X CML, 460 pts
Rifleman Dreadnought, 125 pts
Rifleman Dreadnought, 125 pts

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Typhoon w/HB, 90 pts
Land Speeder Typhoon w/HB, 90 pts
2 Land Speeder Tornadoes w/MM & HF, 140 pts

Heavy Support
Land Raider (Godhammer), w/MM, 260 pts
Predator Destructor, w/HB, 85 pts
Predator Destructor, w/HB, 85 pts

10-man Tac Squad, MM, Flamer, Sergeant w/Combi-Melta, Rhino, 215 pts
3 X 5-man Tac Squad, Sergeant w/Combi-Melta, Razorback w/LC + TLPG, 175 pts each

2500 points even.

My first impressions are solid but two things jump out. 1) Not liking the Godhammer. 2) BT just end up doing this better with 5 man Terminator squads and their cheap Typhoons. Space Marines are going to give you a more reliable midfield core which doesn't run willynilly towards the enemy but just something to consider. With that in mind I'd probably want to drop the Godhammer. Although you can make it scoring you've got pretty good scoring already and the firepower of a Godhammer isn't that impressive. I'd rather see this become another Predator and those points go into Typhoons or LasPlas squads.

Lysander makes the army Stubborn, provides Bolster Defenses (local tables have lots of ruins), takes the odd Lascannon hit on the squad, and gives the Terminator Bubble-wrap ten twin-linked stormbolters. The full tac-squad detaches 5 plain marines to sit in the Godhammer to make it scoring, while the other half provides close support from the Rhino. Librarian provides hood and null-zone utility, and can fire Avenger out the Rhino as opportunity fire if I grow desperate and/or bored. MM/HF Land Speeder squadron can deep-strike, block, harass, etc. The Land Raider is questionable, but it does provide a solid fire base, and gives me the option ( if conditions favor) of combat-squadding the Terminators and putting one combat squad with 2x CML in a 3+ Cover Save Ruin, and the other squad in the LR with Lysander. Plus I've found that a scoring LR can throw off some opponents, causing it to draw more than it's share of fire. Sure, I'm suffering from "anecdotal-bias", to coin a phrase, but what the heck, it's just a game, and I like to play the hot horse :). Also, I know conventional Internet wisdom is to run Rifleman Dreads, but I am wondering if I should run one with a DCCW w/HF? Otherwise, it's pretty much point and shoot. Might sound boring, but at higher point levels, I can sometimes try to be too clever by half. Sometimes simpler is better.

MM Dreads are fine they just play a different role than Rifledreads. I think in this army either will work fine as the Shootynators aren't that scary in combat to dedicated combat units (unlike TH/SS) so the MM Dread can help there but at the same time, you do have 10 powerfists + Lysander. With that in mind I'd probably go with the Rifledreads for more ranged firepower.

Overall I feel it's a good list, with an enhanced (and expensive) wrap, good shooting in terms of volume and variety, and mobility. Yes, the troop choices are weak, but I can't think of a better way of getting 4-5 scoring units in this concept. Do I think it's a list that will sweep its way to the finals? No, not at all. But it's a list I'd enjoy playing, so good enough.

BONUS QUESTION: Do you have any thoughts on scaling this Lysander-wrap concept down to 2000 points? I don't think this list can work below 2000 points, if it even can at 2000. But if it can, then I can play it more frequently than a couple times a year, which makes getting the models I don't have now a more attractive option.

Thanks for your time!

I agree it's solid but nothing stellar. It seems like a 2000 list with a couple of toys attached. Again, BT jump out as being able to do something like this more efficiently. Regardless, as a scale down I'd lose the Libby, LR and 2x MM/HF. You could instead drop a LasPlas squad and keep the Libby (or Speeders) as well but 300 points into HQs is a lot at 2000. 

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