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Wednesday, May 25, 2011

Warmahordes - Warcasters, Warlocks, Warbeasts and Warjacks.

pDenny. Pretty much epitomises Cryx. Annoying spells,
Debuffs, and really, really annoying to play against.
Also has one of the most brutal feats in the game.
Foreword: The pictures in this article are some exceptional Warcasters I would absolutely recommend if you want to try out that faction. I'll also give you a little hint as to their strengths.

Ok, so this is where the big difference between the two games occurs. Now, while you "could" just go and read Tzeentchling's comments in the previous thread, I'm going to go over it here. So, lets start with the basics. In a Warmachine force, you get a Warcaster. These are (as previously mentioned) your king pieces. The most powerful (usually, there is Molik Karn) and influential model in your force. So, what do Warcasters do? A lot. What do warcasters do, that they have in common? A lot less. See, 'casters are pretty unique. Definitely within faction in regards to how they play. Yes, some are similar, but they're all absolutely different. Anyway, I'm rambling. What do they have in common? Well, they all use Focus, and they all control Warjacks. Suppose I should explain those two things. But first...

eSorscha. Great support, and a BRUTAL feat. Works
well with almost any Khador unit. Especially WGI
That e and p thing. You've probably seen it. Y'know, eKrueger, pSorscha, eSorscha, pThaggy etc. Basically, this is "prime" and "epic". There isn't a difference in power, it just represents the characters at different stages of their campaign/life etc.

Now, to quote Tzeentchling's excellent summary from my last thread:

"Warcasters have a Focus stat, and automatically receive that much Focus at the start of their turns. They can use this Focus to cast spells, use it to increase their Armor stat, or they can give it to warjacks (usually up to 3/jack). Warjacks need Focus to perform special actions, such as charging, running, or performing power attacks, and they need to spend a focus to make an extra attack with a weapon beyond their initial one. This means Warmachine is a resource-management game at heart - how much focus to give to a jack, how much to keep for spells, how much to keep for Arm in a given turn? As the jacks get destroyed, the choices get simpler, but the Warcaster never loses power.

pKreoss. Has one of the most feared feats in
the entire game, and is a fantastic model to boot.
In Hordes, the Warlock has a Fury stat. He starts with that much Fury, but does not replenish at the beginning of their turns. Fury can be used to cast spells or to transfer all damage from a hit to a friendly beast (usually making them difficult to assassinate). Beasts do not need to be given anything from the Warlock; instead, they have their own Fury stat. They can be "forced" by the warlock to perform actions (same list as in Warmachine), but they can do this as many times up to their Fury stat. In addition, all Warbeasts have an "animus," or personal spell. The Warlock can cast the animus himself, or the beast can be forced to cast it itself. At the beginning of the Warlock's turn, he can harvest off of his beasts an amount of Fury equal to the Warlock's Fury stat. If a Warbeast is left with Fury on it after the harvesting, it makes a Threshold check and if it fails, it will Frenzy, giving up its regular action to attack the nearest model (usually friend or foe). This makes Hordes a "risk-management" game - how much Fury do you need, how much do you dare generate, can you risk your beasts frenzying? It also means that as the game goes on and the Hordes player loses beasts, he loses spells he can cast (the animii) as well as his protective mechanism (transferring damage taken)."

eHaley. Oh dear lord, the most
irritating feat in the game, and
a FANTASTIC caster. She is a
great first choice for Cygnar.
That's a pretty fantastic summary of the Focus/Fury mechanic. I feel no need to change that. So, we know what we're dealing with here. This leads to a different dynamic between the 2 games. As Tzeentchling pointed out, Warcasters are not nearly as reliant on their 'jacks as Warlocks are on their 'beasts. This tends to lead to Warmachine armies featuring more infantry, as Warjacks are not self sufficient like Warbeasts. This tends to mean that focus hungry casters will only run one jack, maybe two (with one usually being an Arc Node). In addition, most Warmachine armies (Cryx and Khador particularly) have REALLY GOOD infantry, and great infantry support. Taking Khador as an example however, their Warlocks tend to have low Focus, meaning they can usually only really support one Warjack. 

On the other hand, in Hordes, 3 Warbeasts is pretty commonplace. Heavy ones at that. The reason is as Tzeentchling mentioned, a Warlock relies on its Warbeasts to replenish its Fury. So really, it comes down to something we should all know, redundancy. Now, thinking about this, most heavy warbeasts have 4 fury. Most Warlocks have 6-7 fury (warlocks tend to have lower fury than warcasters do focus). This means you're going to need 2 Warbeasts straight from the beginning to keep him running. Then what if one dies? This is why you really want 3. Hell, some armies run 4+ Warbeasts. 

Ravyn. DAKKADAKKADAKKA
The other big thing between Warlocks and Warcasters is their defensive mechanic. Warcasters gain Armour for every Focus on them. This means that some casters can reach truly ridiculous armour values, becoming untouchable to most. However, this tends to result in you not being able to spend your focus, or you'll lose that protection. In Hordes however, you can spend a Fury to transfer the damage on to a friendly Warbeast. Now, at first glance, the Hordes one seems better. Against things that will kill your caster in a hit (Beast-09 rolling 18 for damage with eSorscha's feat up, I did this before, and the transfer one shotted a Carnivean, 44 damage is nothing to snicker at) it almost certainly is. However, against things like a unit of Tempest Gun Mages, I'd definitely rather have the armour. In addition, with the extra warcaster armour, the damage is actually being ignored. In Hordes, it's just being moved around (this is mitigated somewhat by Warlocks being able to heal their warbeasts, but it's incredibly inefficient). 


eMadrak. FREEEEDOOOOOM! But seriously, this
guy is sheer brutality Hits like a truck, and makes his army
do the same.
Now, I'm sure you guys were expecting some big essay about the differences between Warjacks and Warbeasts. Not so! The main difference is actually in the Fury and Focus mechanic. As this has been explained, there's not much to talk about. There is something though, so I'll talk about that. :D
Now, due to the nature of the Fury mechanic on Warbeasts, this tends to make them a fair bit more dangerous than a Warjack. Why? Well, if it'll win them the game that turn, there's no reason a Hordes player wont put 16 fury on the table, knowing full well his Warlock wouldn't have been able to suck it up next turn. Doesn't matter though, he won. This is something that Warcasters simply cannot do. Of course, if the Hordes player has no beasts, he has to cut himself for fury, and then the warcaster will simply win the attrition war, which balances this. But basically, Hordes can have "that one turn" where all their warbeasts go wild and you're left with piles of scrap where your jacks used to be.

Legion's best here. Saeryn is an absolute toolbox, with
a tool for every occasion. Ignore the model, it's a silly MKI.
But seriously, she's very very good.
There is another downside to fury. See, a Warcaster can load a Warjack up with focus, and it can go haring off outside the Warcaster's control, to beat in the face of whoever it damn well pleases. Not so with beasts. They have to stay in their Warlock's control to get forced. Remember I said that generally Warlocks have less Fury? Yeah, smaller control. This means Warlocks are forced to get closer to the front lines, to keep their beasts in check. Admittedly, usually the safest place to be is behind a Beast/Jack, but hey, I don't want to get any closer to the Butcher than is absolutely necessary. 

Then we have one final thing. A nail in the coffin, if you will, that cements beasts being better than jacks (game is balanced though, WM has better casters and infantry). I mentioned it earlier. Warbeasts can be healed. "But Arch! You said it was woefully inefficient!" Yeah, and it is. However, let me paint you a picture. Avatar on 3 focus charges into my Bronzeback titan. It reduces poor ol' bronzey to just having 1 spiral left (mind). This would be the nail in the coffin if the Bronzeback was a jack. He wouldn't be able to effectively hit the Avatar back. However, eMakeda spent 2 Fury to put a point back in his body and spirit spirals. Then I enraged him. Then the Bronzeback went to ******* town on that Avatar so that he ***** and ****** and then he ***** **** ****** *****. And that was the ******* Avatar! One of the hardest jacks in the game. Period. It's a huge mechanic, and something to never ever ever forget. 

eMakeda. She's realy really good in combat, and makes
Skorne fast. This is big, because they hit hard, but
are normally quite slow (:
If you're against Hordes, do NOT damage their Warbeasts. Kill them. Kill them outright, or don't even bother, unless you have nothing to shoot at. Against Warmachine, if you can nuke out key systems (if I'm playing circle and I can hit their arms, I'm very happy, as I have high def across the board) then by all means do so. But the important one is against hordes, do NOT leave them alive. 
(:

Well, there we have it folks. A short summary of how Warbeasts, Warjacks, Warcasters and Warlocks work. Followed by a load of drivel. :P

Toodle pip! 





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Best warlock. Wins through sheer Bullshit. Not that
I'm biased. But whoever moves the most stuff wins.
And this guy moves the most stuff. :P

Comments (35)

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Technically, Warjacks can be fixed by mechanics, and each faction usually has at least one model that has the mechanic ability (Cygnar I think has 2 or 3). But that's additional points, that may not always be useful (the jacks may be completely trashed) or work (the mechanic can fail his Repair roll). It's not built in regeneration like Hordes has.
4 replies · active 723 weeks ago
Yessum, but you rarely see mechanics. (:
I tend to see Vassal Mechaniks showing up fairly frequently, and I use Necrotechs (granted, I use them to unlock Tiers and generate comedy Scrap Thralls, but still!).
TheLunaticMoon's avatar

TheLunaticMoon · 723 weeks ago

Cygnar has three mechanics. One's a 'Caster (Darius), one is a unit, and one is a character solo (Strangeways). I think unless you're fielding a crapton of 'Jacks and not much infantry, mechanics aren't really gonna be too helpful with keeping damage off. Darius can fully repair up to 4 'jacks on his feat turn, but he and his little robot dudes need to be in B2B with the 'jacks in question to do so. The little guys aren't very sturdy or quick if memory serves.

Another awesome write-up, Arch. Looking forward to the article on how to smash.... I mean, the run-down on the hordes of the Nightmare Empire of Cryx!

Also, STRYKER!!!
Mmm... Arlan Strangewayes is pretty close to always-useful, so you might see him around. Extra focus for allocation purposes? Yes please.
Very nice followup to the previous post. Looking forward to more Warmahordes posts. Also, that's eDenny, check the scar.
4 replies · active 723 weeks ago
There was no way I was not using that picture. (:
eDenny is also ridiculously good too, with a just-as-devastating feat. So it's ok.
Absolutely. :3
Yeah, I was going to say. :P
Just noticed the majority of the casters I put up have phenomenal feats. Off hand the only ones that aren't that impressive are Saeryn's and Ravyn's. o.o
8 replies · active 723 weeks ago
eMakeda has a good one, but it's not as scary as some of the other ones in there....
Also the only battlebox caster from WM that didn't make it up there was Stryker. :P And Kaelyssa I guess for Retribution's battlebox equivalent, but I dislike that list.
Nah, it's pSorscha in the Khador box. :P

Hordes there isn't any box casters. (:
That's because the Hordes boxes, in general, aren't that great. Trolls might be an exception, but you still don't need two Impalers. Legion might be an exception, but Lylyth is better played with other beasts. Circle - who uses Argus? Skorne - who uses Cyclops?
I use a Cyclops Shaman... :P That count?
Cyclops Brute? I had one in my Zaal list. Those beast points had to go on something.
Well, occasionally you see one Argus as a slam bullet, but two is a bit much. Carnivean is always nice for Legion though, and two of the four shredders are at the very least useable as transfer batteries if you want to go that route...

I agree though. I think it was a big mistake to include two of the same lights, given particularly that animi work the way they do. I'd happily have taken an argus and gorax instead.
But you used the eDenny art for pDenny, so why not the eSorscha art for pSorscha? :P
Quick question - People have been talking about the cards with the stats on them, so that you don't have to flip through your book each time you want to look something up, and don't have to make marks in it for warjacks/warbeasts/warcasters/warlocks. I didn't get one with the blister pack of metal Bane Thralls I got. Why is that?
3 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
The cards only come in the Leader blisters, which usually specifically state that they are "Leader and Grunt" or something similar. A blister pack of two grunts (regular guys in the unit) won't have a card.

Having said that, if you did get a "Leader + Grunt" blister and there was no card, send an email or call PP customer service. They're really good about getting replacement bits sent out for mispackaging.
Nope, didn't get one of those. Thanks for clearing that up!
Also worth pointing out that leader+grunt blisters aren't used anymore. There're boxes that have the minimum unit and then blisters to fill it out, or there are just boxes that come with a full unit.
Since you were quite whlpful the last time, here are two more lists for your perusal and corrections:

High Exemplar Kreoss: +5

1 Redeemer: 1p (6)

2 Repenters: 4 (Each)

1 Revenger: 6

1 unit of Knights Exemplar: 5

Total: 22

-------------------

Vladimir Tzepesci: +5

1 Marauder: 2 (7)

1 Berserker: 6

1 unit of Widowmakers: 4

1 unit of Man-o'-War Shocktroopers: 9

Total: 21

------------

This doesn't mean I've abandoned Cryx, of course, but I am looking at all of my options.
4 replies · active 723 weeks ago
How many points are you aiming for? In general, people tend to play at 15/25/35/50 point levels - your first list clocks in at 20, the second at 21.

I'll comment on the Menoth list, as I know them best. At this low points level, you don't need this many jacks. If you want them, I'd suggest a Redeemer, a Repenter, and a Reckoner, which will put you back 13 after Kreoss' jack points. Then, add in a minimum Choir of Menoth and a Vassal of Menoth, for another 4 points. This jack support is vital to Menoth success. We're at 17 now. (Note that a Repenter, Redeemer, Crusader, Vassal, and Min Choir is 15 exactly, which is good for small games.) A unit of Knights Exemplar are possible, but I would be more tempted by a unit of Temple Flameguard (no need for the UA) or a full unit of Holy Zealots and their UA, the Monolith Bearer. Depending on the points you're playing, that might be enough, or you might have points to add in a solo like the Hierophant, the Covenant of Menoth, or a mercenary solo like Gorman or epic Eiryss.

Kreoss, despite his above-average focus stat, still finds himself strapped for focus, because he has good spells that he'll often cast, and he usually wants to keep a few for armor since he's relatively squishy. This is why I usually don't take too many jacks with him, because he often doesn't have the focus to feed them all turn after turn, and usually a Hierophant or Wracks are good solos to include.
Around 25. (Also, I don't have the Faction book for any of these, as I'm still trying to decide which I want, so I don't have access to the Hierophant, Covenant, etc.). I had missed that bit about them getting extra AR until this post, which means that I'll be taking less 'jack heavy lists (and I need to read more carefully...). Anyway, the list you're saying would be more like this:

-----------
Kreoss: +5

Vanquisher: 3 (8) [I know that I'll be facing the Butcher at some point, so I need something that can do a lot of damage, fast.]

Repenter: 4

Choir of Menoth X2: 6 (3 each)

Temple Flameguard: 6

Holy Zealots: 6

Total: 25

------------

correct?
Kind of. The Vanquisher is great at taking out troops, but not so great at hurting high armor targets. A Reckoner, Templar, or Crusader is a much better beat stick against high armor. The Reckoner also has the advantage of having a gun to use in conjunction with Kreoss' feat (and also has spd 5 and reach, and flare on the gun and its ash cloud effect. it's really a bargain jack for 8 points). You only need one choir, and a minimum one at that for now - each choirboy in the unit can target a jack with its effect, but a jack can only be under one chant at a time. So drop that choir down to a single minimum unit (saving 4 points). With those 4 points, you could either add a Vassal and a Monolith Bearer to the Zealots, or drop the Zealots and take a Vassal and another 8 point jack. The Reckoner/Vanquisher combo is a commonly seen one and a good one.
@ Archnomad: I cannot believe that you have written an article about Warlocks/Warcasters without explaining what a feat is! I'm sure it was a simple oversight.

My explanations tend to be far too wordy, but I will have a go:

I'd like to add to the above article that every Warcaster/Warlock has a Feat. This a once-per-game ability which will generally swing the battle in your favour for a turn. Make no mistake, Feats are very powerful things and a well-timed use of your Feat can win you the game in many instances. This creates a nice little sub-game in Warmahordes battle: one of trying to maximise the effects of your own Feat whilst anticipating and minimising the possible effects of your opponent's.

Feats vary greatly between Casters, so I will use some 'battlebox' examples to illustrate the kind of things you might expect.

pSorscha's Feat causes enemy models within 12" and line of sight of her to become stationary for one round. This Feat is both very offensive and defensive. Defensively, stationary models cannot move forward to claim objectives, so you will have the edge over your opponent for a round. Offensively, stationary models are very easy to hit (they are hit automatically in melee and generally only missed by a roll of snake eyes on 2D6 when shooting).

pStryker's Feat is purely defensive. He gives +5 Armour to himself and every friendly model within 12". This is huge. The best way to ensure damage against an enemy model is to boost your damage rolls. This means that you roll an additional dice when trying to beat your opponent's Armour value. If you are playing against Stryker on Feat turn, even boosted damage rolls are unlikely to have a significant effect.

pDenny's Feat is all about denial. Enemy models within 14" of her suffer -2 to all stats. This means that the enemy becomes slower, is less likely to hit when shooting/casting spells/in melee, is less likely to cause damage in melee AND enemy Warlocks/Warcasters can cast fewer spells. Additionally, the enemy becomes easier for you to hit and damage AND the enemy cannot perform charges, since models suffering a movement penalty are unable to charge.

At this point I'd like to re-iterate a point I made in the previous post that there really are very few shitty models in Warmahordes. You tend to build armies around your Warcaster/Warlock's spell list and Feat, selecting the units which will benefit most from these. i.e. if your have chosen a shooty-orientated Warlock, then melee units will be crappy and shooty ones will be superior. If you choose a melee-orientated Warlock, then shooty units will be crappy and melee ones will be great. Simply changing you Warlock choice can MASSIVELY affect how your army operates. The only thing in 40K I can liken this to is the spamming of flamers and meltaguns in a Vulkan list. Now try running that same list with Pedro Kantor instead of Vulkan. Doesn't work anywhere near as well does it?
1 reply · active 723 weeks ago
.... I'm an idiot. Bahahahahahaha

It was indeed an oversight. Well, next article decided.
Nice post, liked the explanation of the Hordes fury stat.

Thanks, keep them coming :-) .

B.
To echo Mercury, this is what has drawn me to WM/H more than anything else; each caster/lock radically changes how an army plays. With ~100 of them,in the game, you can bet that the permutations and match-ups are quite numerous. Keeps the game exciting!
Because I'm weird that way, there are a grand total of 114 that currently have models released:

8 casters + 4 epics each for the four big guys in WM
5 casters for Retribution
8 casters + 1 epic for Mercenaries
7 locks + 2 epics each for the four big guys in Hordes
4 locks for Minions

And with Wrath, we know there will be at least one more for all WM factions including Mercs, so make that 121 in a few weeks.
1 reply · active 723 weeks ago
And because I can't do any math at all apparently, that's 102. 107 in a few weeks.
Hurr. 108. 6 WM casters. Sigh.

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