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Monday, July 18, 2011

Dark Eldar - Royalty List

Eldar addict

We've looked at lists centring around both the Duke and Baron for Dark Eldar before but generally from an e-mailers perspective. Here's my take and something I'm encouraging Vince to put together as he's now collecting Dark Eldar...reasons unknown. Both the Duke and Baron are two of the better characters for Dark Eldar. Neither are too expensive and both are pretty durable for T3 guys (thanks Shadow Field!) and bring some excellent abilities to the army. The key to using any one of them is to maximise their special abilities without hamstringing the list. This effect will be magnified with both of them so we must aim to not over focus on their bonuses and miss out on actual army effectiveness.

So, what do the two of these guys give us? Baron helps us decide who gets first turn and this is pretty big. Remember, going first isn't always the best but deciding who goes first more often than not, is a very nice bonus to have. He also moves Hellions to Troops and gives quite a few buffs to a single squad including a Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Stealth, Skilled Rider and an improved Hit and Run. Duke on the other hand allows for a better reserves game by allowing all vehicles to deep-strike (and units can disembark), improves units with combat drugs by giving them some reliability and gives one Kabalite unit 3+ poisoned weapons. Between the two you get an awesome spread of buffs but you're unlikely to make maximum use of all - to do so would weaken the army as a whole. Taking both of them costs 255 points which is very cheap for the buffs we are getting and two decent combat characters.


Duke Sliscus
Baron Sathonyx


The first unit we'd want to include would therefore be a large Hellion unit. This unit is obviously a great place for Baron to ride around in due the buffs he gives them whilst they also benefit from Duke's double combat drug roll. With two poisoned shots each on 18" assault guns, a 12" move, skilled rider and stealth, they are an excellent midfield shooting unit which can back it up in combat. Thanks to hit and run they can also ensure they don't get bogged down in prolonged engagements. We'll take a squad of 15 which isn't too unwieldy but gives us a lot of numbers which to benefit from the buffs. This is 240 points for 495 total.

15x Hellions

From there we're going to go straight to fire support - Ravagers or Razorwings. We could go either way here but I think we'll have anti-infantry covered with what I have in mind here. We'll take the Ravagers then for cheapness sake. They aren't really benefiting from either of our HQs though they can use Duke's ability to deep-strike anywhere on the battlefield rather than coming on from the table edge if the army reserves. Three of these guys naked costs 315 points for 810 total.

Ravager
Ravager
Ravager


We've got our HQ/buffs, fire support and a scoring midfield unit sorted out with only Fast Attack, some Troops and Elite slots left to fill out. From here, we can really do a lot. We can support our guys with a bunch of Kabalite squads in Raiders/Venoms, grab some Reavers for harassment + heat lances, more Hellions, Beastmasters for some fast combat power, Incubi/Wyches/Bloodbrides for combat punch in Raiders, large Trueborn unit in Raider for anti-infantry firepower, etc. As long as your army covers the bases, well you've got a solid core down so it would be hard to go wrong. Let's see how I would do it.

We'll start with Fast Attack. Since we are using Duke I'd lean away from Scourges. You could of course take them with Haywires as more fire support but with the Duke, Reavers are excellent units capable of delivering Heat Lance fire quickly, coming in from reserve and affecting the battlefield quickly and benefit from combat drugs to be excellent harassers. Beastmasters are also an option and bring a ton of close combat ability to the table with the added bonus of large assault reaches. For this army though I'm going with Reavers for their harassment potential, heat lances and Duke bonuses. A squad of six allows us to have two heat lances and ensures a stiff breeze won't blow them away. Remember to use their skilled rider and turbo-boost to always have a decent save. Two of these squads costs 312 points bringing our total to 1122 points.

6x Reavers w/2x Heat Lances
6x Reavers w/2x Heat Lances


We now really need to look at Troops to support the Hellions. We could get more squads to act as harassers and with the Duke's combat drug bonus and the ability for the Baron to flit from squad to squad, could do this very well. Not really what I want for this list however so we look towards Wyches and Warriors. Wyches would go great with the Duke's ability for Combat Drugs and add some decent combat potential whilst also being an excellent tar pit. Warriors could roll as cheap scoring units in Venoms or larger units in Raiders depending upon points allowance and transport needs and can benefit from the Duke's ability to deep-strike their transports, hop out and shoot stuff. With points tight I'd be leaning towards small Warrior squads in Venoms, though they are really viable. By using the small Warrior squads I can look to take advantage of my open Elite slots. Knowing that points are becoming tight we'll take these squads as cheap as possible with five guys each, a blaster and a Venom. Five of these costs 625 and jumps our total to 1747.

5x Kabalite Warriors w/blaster, Venom
5x Kabalite Warriors w/blaster, Venom
5x Kabalite Warriors w/blaster, Venom
5x Kabalite Warriors w/blaster, Venom
5x Kabalite Warriors w/blaster, Venom


We now have just the Elites left (and one FA slot). Again, we have a lot of choices. Trueborn in Venoms/Raiders are going to mesh nicely with the Duke's deep strike ability whilst a Shardcarbine unit would also love to have 3+ poisoned shots. Bloodbrides are the exact same as Wyches but with more combat power and again, benefit from Duke's combat drugs. Incubi don't benefit from either of the characters really (though would love the PGL on Baron) but are excellent units in their own right. Looking at the rest of our army we've got quite a bit of shooting without any real combat power. I'd like to have a mix in this army so I'll go with Incubi. They don't benefit majorily from the HQs but Bloodbrides really need combat support from other units (i.e. Incubi or Beastmasters) whilst Incubi can tear through units as they see fit. We'll go with two units then in Raiders with shock prows to bust through infantry formations. We'll be relying on the Venoms for cover saves here though if we have the points we can grab some flickerfields. Two squads of seven with a Raider + shock prow costs 448 bringing our total well over 2000 at 2195.

7x Incubi w/Raider, shock prow
7x Incubi w/Raider, shock prow


We need to trim to go to 2000 points but as we stand, we can easily take this to 2500! Take a third unit of Reavers and then a Trueborn Shardcarbine unit in a Raider with shock prow (should be able to get around eight if you drop some Hellions).

So back to the land of 2000 points. We need to shave 195 which is quite a hefty amount. We could forego the Incubi completely and replace them with Trueborn in Venoms (change two of the Kabalite Warriors to Raiders). Otherwise we are going to have to drop a unit and the only ones we have more than two of are the Ravagers and Warriors. We could drop a whole Warrior squad saving 125 points and then look to trim units. With some quick number crunching here's what we get:

Duke Sliscus
Baron Sathonyx

6x Incubi w/Raider, shock prow
7x Incubi w/Raider, shock prow

12x Hellions
5x Kabalite Warriors w/blaster, Venom
5x Kabalite Warriors w/blaster, Venom
5x Kabalite Warriors w/blaster, Venom
5x Kabalite Warriors w/blaster, Venom

6x Reavers w/2x Heat Lances
6x Reavers w/2x Heat Lances

Ravager
Ravager
Ravager

Totals: 2000 points
9 vehicles
59 infantry


We shaved an incubi and some Hellions and end bang on 2000 points. Let's look at the army as whole and again, there are a ton of options around the Royalty combination so this is by no means set in stone.

With the Duke + Baron we are likely to get to choose who goes first and take advantage of it. If going first is advantageous, we have a lot of firepower + speed to get into position early and hurt our opponent whilst overcoming Dark Eldar fragility. If going second you can reserve effectively to minimise damage with all units able to come on effectively from reserve (either deep-striking or table edge for Reavers/Ravagers as necessary) and hit the enemy in a counter alpha-strike. Our harassment units (Hellions, Reavers) gain great benefits from the Baron and Duke and are therefore much better at their jobs. The Warriors can hold midfield and bring an extra darklight weapon to the table as well as 64 to 80 poisoned shots on the move. The Incubi can break opponent's infantry formations and carve through most units on the charge with easy. Lack of plasma grenades/dedicated PGLs hurts but with shock prows they should be able to set up non-terrain assaults. The Ravagers of course provide back-field pewpew.

All in all the army has a lot of anti-tank (20 darklight shots + potential high strength in combat), lots of anti-infantry and multiple units for the opponent to deal with. Durability for Dark Eldar is as always a problem and without Coven units or Haemonculi to pass around pain tokens, killing units early (especially for the Hellions, Incubi and Reavers) is very valuable. Scoring can be an issue with only 20 Warriors + 12 Hellions but the Baron makes the Hellions very durable in cover, especially if they get a pain token.

All in all a nice list and something I'd like to playtest (no it has been playtested yet) with lots of units I like and a theme which appeals. Discuss.

Comments (22)

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Piranhaburger's avatar

Piranhaburger · 719 weeks ago

I'd switch out two if the venom squads (assuming we are sticking to keeping warriors MSU - an idea I am not fond of) for 2x5 warrios inc shredder in raiders.

It helps break up the relaicne on ravagers for long range anti-tank. Sure reavers are nice and so are blasters, but having to close on the enemy to work still means running into range of a lot of weapons that tear both groups to shreds - no matter how you do it you will have to face such weapons. The raiders merely ease the pressure off and shredders are excelletn weapons for their cost.
Ummm just a thought... Wouldn't duke not be able to fit in this list... or at least your going to have an empty venom... Duke MUST be deployed with warriors if you have them and won't fit in any of the venoms... therefor your having a foot slogging unit of 5 warriors + duke and an empty venom... not that an empty venom is a bad thing but...
2 replies · active 718 weeks ago
Duke can start with them then go somewhere else.
hmm yeah dude has a point, thats right isnt it, he wont fit in any of the squads there, would have to take 1 of them in a raider? Personally I think he'd be quite funky holding backfield objectives/bases in a larger squad with cannons, bunker down and hit and wound anything on 3's that gets close, though the raider options is fine too.
Decent list but why would you not include at least one squad of Trueborn with Splinter Cannon for the Duke to join? 12 dice of Poison 3+ is pretty nice.

Also, without the Phantasm Launcher of a generic Archon those Incubi are going to have a rough time with charging units in cover.
Even with 3+ saves only T 3 Incubi are going to get sliced pretty badly. Incubi are too many points and just get flattened by TH/SS terms or kill a weaker unit and then get shot to pieces.

Bloodbrides with maxed Shardnets can do a bunch more. Lock a unit in place, rob attacks, make 4++ saves and tarpit a unit so the Hellions can dart in and out finishing them off.
2 replies · active 718 weeks ago
Use the shock prow + Raider shadow to make sure you don't have to assault through cover for Incubi. It's not as reliable as a PGL but it's certainly doable. I'm happy for my incubi to take a bunch of firepower after wiping a unit. 3+/FNP is pretty decent.

Certainly though Trueborn instead of Incubi are fine choices. Bloodbrides I'd be less inclined to since there's no real heavy hitting combat unit to bust them out so unless you dropped the Reavers for Beastmasters, I'd prefer one of the other two.
Hopefully, as you only took 6 Incubi, you won't auto-kill the enemy unit, so you can finish on their turn, and then be free to sprint to cover/another combat in your next turn.
I like the concept. Something I've been trying myself.

The Duke doesn't seem to be doing much of anything though. Even something as simple as making room for a small unit of Trueborn with 2 splinter cannons in a Venom would make me happy. 3+ poison is the new black, after all. Dropping an Incubus or 2 could easily help you squeeze them in.
2 replies · active 718 weeks ago
I agree with chumbalaya on the duke. Yes he is nice, I do love him too. But being able to DS skimmers for "free" is a very situational skill esp. in a list with the barons +1 roll-off modifier. So basically I take the duke to increase my chances for a useful drug chart roll and I don't think that the amount of units with combat drugs are worth going for a double-royalty approach.

I also think that dual incubi are a bit of overkill, esp. with the rise of ini6 g*y knights with stupid grenades and psychic spells armies. ^^
Ya a larger Warrior squad or Trueborn squad for the Duke to start with certainly isn't out of the question. I'd probably drop an Incubi, upgrade a Warrior squad to splinter cannon/blaster in Raider and go from there. Duke still has issue of needing to start with them outside the transport but isn't an issue when going first and when going second I envision this list reserving a lot of them time (though of course only against armies which have the shooting to shoot them down).
I recently picked up a Dark Eldar collection second hand, and while I was initially going to build a venom-heavy list he didn't have any (save for a really poor kitbash - imagine a vyper and a raider get into an accident, and there's green stuff everywhere). So after playing around with what he did have, and buying one venom, I came up with this:

HQ: Baron Sathonyx
HQ: Duke Sliscus
Elite: 9x Trueborn, 2 Splinter Cannon, Raider w/FF (Duke rides here)
Elite: 3x Trueborn, 3 Blaster, Venom w/Splinter Cannon
Troop: 10 x Wyches, 2 Shardnet+Impaler, Raider w/FF
Troop: 10 x Wyches, 2 Shardnet+Impaler, Raider w/FF
Troop: 10 x Wyches, Raider w/FF
Troop: 12 x Hellions (Baron rides here)
Fast: 6 x Reavers, 2 Heat Lance
Fast: 6 x Reavers, 2 Heat Lance
Heavy: Ravager w/FF
Heavy: Ravager w/FF
Heavy: Ravager w/FF

Total: 1998
68 Infantry (incl. bikes)
8 Vehicles

I tried to take advantage of the Duke as much as possible. He rides with an impressive anti-infantry unit, benefiting from the 3+ poison. His drugs help my 30 wyches provide decent CC, and also a bonus to the hellions and reavers, and if need be I can reserve everything reasonably well (though I doubt I'd make a habit of this, but that venom with three blasters could make a good DS).

Thoughts?
1 reply · active 718 weeks ago
Looks good to me though the Trueborn aren't so flash IMO. You've got one tiny suicide squad and one large "death to infantry squad." I feel like you should make the larger squad a bit smaller and the small squad simply a Warrior squad. With spare points add shock prows to Wych raiders and Shardnets to naked squad. Good overall though.
I never liked large trueborn squads squads for the Duke anyways. I feel it leaves too much of an obvious target.

So anyways, I just made a royalty list a while ago so why not post it? Similar in many ways, but yet way diferent.

Duke Sliscus (150)
Baron Sarthonyx (105)

3x Trueborn w/ 2x Blasters, Venom w/ 2nd Splinter Cannon, Grisly Trophies (136)
3x Trueborn w/ 2x Blasters, Venom w/ 2nd Splinter Cannon (131)

10x Warriors w/ Dark Lance (115)
5x Warriors w/ Blaster, Raider w/ Shock Prow (125)
5x Warriors w/ Blaster, Raider w/ Shock Prow (125)
7x Wyches w/ Haywire Grenades, Raider w/ Shock Prow (149)
7x Wyches w/ Haywire Grenades, Raider w/ Shock Prow (149)
13x Hellions, Helliarch w/ Venom Blade (218)

5x Scourges w/ 2 Dark Lances (140)
5x Scourges w/ 2 Dark Lances (140)

Ravager (105)
Ravager (105)
Ravager (105)

1997/2000

Both HQs wait to see what happens with the Wyches and possibly join them later, otherwise they hang out with the Hellions and bounce around. Foot Lance squad sets up nearish an objective and supply either poison into midfield to generate a pain token or add more Lances to the party. Shock Prows and the Trophies are basically point filler, it was either that or an 8th Wych in those squads.

C&C welcome.
2 replies · active 718 weeks ago
Looks good, but I'm just not seeing the necessity of the Duke here either. No good torrent unit to benefit from 3+ poison, no reliance on drugs, no mass DS. He's a great force multiplier, but multiplying anything by 0 always gets you 1 =/
Feels stretched too thin. No wych weapons on the Wyches but haywires makes them decent against stationary tanks but less able combat units/tar pits. Scourges should really have haywires and I think Reavers benefit this type of list a lot better with the Duke options. The question becomes how do you get the points to buff up the Wyches and turn Scourges to Reavers (though of course you could leave them as Scourges). Only two blasters on the Trueborn as well doesn't make them very reliable at all. I feel like this list could simply do without the Baron and use the Hellion points for another Trueborn/Fast Attack choice + Troop squad.
Franssoué's avatar

Franssoué · 718 weeks ago

"Durability for Dark Eldar is as always a problem and without Coven units or Haemonculi to pass around pain tokens, killing units early (especially for the Hellions, Incubi and Reavers) is very valuable."
Why not swich a venom unit for 3xwracks in a venom/raider? Start the baron with them, then switch to the helions, taking the pain token with you while the wracks hide or embark in their ride?
1 reply · active 718 weeks ago
Haemonculi makes them Troops. Non-troop Wracks = meh.
Would you kindly show what you'd do for this list at 1500?
1 reply · active 718 weeks ago
I wouldn't do this list at 1500. 255 on HQs at that level is quite steep. I'd look to do either a pure Duke list or Hellionway at that points level.
I find it very thematic: like it a lot.

I'm not a huge fan of the Warriors in Venoms; a single lance shot doesn't seem very reliable. If that Blaster shot misses or fails to get a result, that squad just missed out on firing their four shardrifles and the Venom's guns at some infantry and stripping down a few guys. I suppose this way you're cramming in a few more blasters, but I feel that bigger units with blaster + dark lance are much better. Alternatively you could put them in a Raider, or give them a Sybarite w. blast pistol.
Hey Kirby, my community does the 1850 game. I was thinking about tweaking it like this.

Duke
Baron

10 Wyches, haywire grenades, 2razorflails, hekatrix, venom blade, raider, shock prow
10 Wyches, haywire grenades, 2razorflails, hekatrix, venom blade, raider, shock prow
10 Wyches, haywire grenades, 2razorflails, hekatrix, venom blade, raider, shock prow

13 Hellions, Helliarch, agonizer

Ravager, flickerfield
Ravager, flickerfield
Ravager, flickerfield

3 trueborn, 2 splinter cannons, venom, extra splinter cannon
3 trueborn, 2 splinter cannons, venom, extra splinter cannon
3 trueborn, 2 splinter cannons, venom, extra splinter cannon

I tried to stick to the poison/drug theme. How do you feel about this list
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
Trueborn need to be in Raiders or have Blasters and be in Venoms. I'd want to keep the Venoms since you have Raiders/Ravagers to screen. To get the blasters cut the flickerfields on Ravagers and Helliarch on Hellions. Otherwise looks good.

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