GWvsJohn revisits Vulkan

Friday, July 22, 2011

GWvsJohn revisits Vulkan

Posted by Anonymous

The biggest change during my absence seems to be the explosion of mixed-mech forces. Let's call it the "Hybrid Revolution." I can see a few reasons for this. First, the newest books (GK, DE and BA) all do hybrid very well. Second a lot of armies can get relatively cheap access to large volume s7 and s8 shooting. If you rely too heavily on light/medium mech for your firepower and mobility, these armies can smoke you. Finally, mixed-mech is fun. Everyone enjoys putting guys on the table and only doing so after your Rhino gets exploded isn't quite as fun. Added to the fact that a lot of the more competitive "older" books could already do hybrid well (Tau, IG, SW), it now seems like everyone is bringing a mixed army to the table.

The book that this revolution most affected is everyone's favorite, the rock upon which all other codexes are built, the driving force of GW's corporate machine, the good old Space Marines. In this new age, the "standard" fighting block for the boys in blue is now 10 man Tactical plus rhino paired with small Devastator plus rhino. I can see the benefit. You gain toughness and mobility for your scoring by splitting them into 2 rhinos and the Devs bring 4 heavies that can't be shut down with 1 shot as easily as a tank. The most common loadout seems to be combat squad with melta/combi-melta in 1 rhino, combat squad with ML or MM in the other rhino and 5 Devs with 4 ML. Despire my deep seeded hatred of codex Devs, I kinda like it. I'm not sure it's better than the old standby of 10 Tacs with MM, flamer or melta and combi-melta in a rhino supported by a dakka pred, but hybrid is the new black so we evolve.

Which brings us to Vulkan. Obviously Vulkan had been competitive since day 1 of the SM Codex, but he never fully fit into the old paradigm IMO. Sure, you could go double Raider/TH termies, but that's more of a rock army than a real mech army. The old mech model of Tacs in rhinos with preds, dreads and speeder support didn't make best use of Vulkan since A) Vulkan doesn't help Preds and B) if all your rhinos have 10 guys, there's no good place for Vulkan. With a slight tweak, the new hybrid model fixes both these problems. Replacing the Dev ML with MM gives a nasty HS option that Vulkan helps a lot. By splitting the Tacs into 2 rhinos, Vulkan has a ready-made ride. I also think the new model offsets the big drawback to Vulkan, the loss of combat tactics. 5 man squads are less likely to have the manpower after surviving an assault to really affect the battle, so just sticking in an tying up an enemy for another round or 2 might be a better option.

Let's build the list. We'll start with Vulkan and our required troops, plus the Dev support

190 - Forgefather Vulkan He'stan

220 - 10 Tactical marines - meltagun, multi-melta, combi-melta, rhino

185 - 5 Devastator marines - multi-melta x4, rhino

Oddly enough, that's exactly 1000 points. If you ever play at 1000, bring this and wreck house :) Now we'll move onto the tailor-made Vulkan unit, which, oddly enough, is one unit the Salamanders are known to not use heavily in the fluff :) Squadrons of 2 make getting cover easiest, so let's bring 3 squadrons

140 - 2 Landspeeders - multi-melta x2, heavy flamer x2

Now onto elites. I see 3 Vulkan favorable elite choices. First is the old standard Dread. More armor saturation, twin-linked MM, CC support and cheap. Ironclad brings better CC, still get a melta shot and add some range with their HK. Finally, Sternguard. Fully Vulkanized Sterns bring a HF and 4 combi-meltas in their Rhino. To start, let's go with the obvious choice and bring the regular Dreads.

105 - Dreadnought - MM

That's 1735 and is a rock-hard 1750 list. (Bringing only 2 squads of speeders and 2 dreads makes a 1500 list). Assuming we're playing 2000 points (and if you aren't, why not? :) ) We have 265 points which really isn't a lot. It's not enough for a 3rd Tac/Dev unit, which would be ideal. You could drop a LS squadrons to fit it (exactly even), but those speeders are your best "ranged" firepower. You don't have any psychic support, so adding a Librarian seems like an obvious choice. You could drop a Dread for some TH/SS Termies. They add to your foot component , which is minimal to start, screen the Devs and be a menace walking up field behind your Rhinos. You could "upgrade" the Dreads to Ironclads or Sterns. You could add some more speeders, but squads of 3 can get unwieldy. I'm not sure what the best option is. I think I'll end the post here and see what the Pink Army thinks is best. Hopefully, I'll follow this with a finished list and a bat-rep soon.

Comments (21)

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Killswitch · 715 weeks ago

So after talking about armies with high volume of str 6-8 firepower, you bring 6 speeders and 4 rhinos O_o? Am I missing something here. Also, dreads walking with no raider to hide behind, and devs with 4 heavy weps means deploying for turn 2/3 shots...I don't get it. Sure you can screen them with the rhinos, but then they are further back or if your opponent immobolises/wrecks/stuns that rhino, your screens buggered up. I like vulkan but i just dont see the point in all this twin-linked melta. Getting up close takes time now a lot of these new armies are taking a gunline stance.

1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago

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Sethis · 715 weeks ago

The mid-Str firepower doesn't shut down the entire army, which was his point about making a codex: SM list that isn't pure mech. This list is about hybridising the vulkan list(s) that already exists, which doesn't rely entirely on camping inside metal boxes.

I agree the Dreads seem underwhleming, I would probably only take two but put them in pods with upgradeds to Heavy Flamers, giving you two guaranteed shots (template or melta) that count, as well as a flexible response to their deployment choices.

The Devs, sat as close to the center of the board as possible can make advancing into midfield hugely risky for any mechanised army - who enjoys eating 8 twinlinked multi-meltas? Not me. Not shooting turn 1 doesn't matter so much because since the enemy is probably out of range you can move + run to get into a solid firing position up to 24" onto the board (depending on run/terrain rolls). At that point you start threatening the enemy deployment zone, never mind the midfield! The major downside is on DoW missions though, because Devs/Long Fangs truly suck, especially when they've given their ride to someone else.

If I was building the army I would like to have some form of CC deterrent, so would have a unit of Hammernators, possibly in a Crusader if I could juggle the points. The problem is that 20 troops in 5 man squads don't really cut it in 2000pts, so you'd have to start stripping out points from elsewhere.

It's a good basis for an army, maybe not going to place top 3 in every tournament, but certainly good enough to have some fun with down at the local club.

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pringles978 · 715 weeks ago

the problem with vulkan is he needs somewhere to go... if your not running hammer termies a unit of sternguard is the next best choice and he fits in nicely with a bbq box sternie unit ans saves you the points on a second heavy flamer. i also find that most people running the pimp daddy salamander skimp on long range firepower and simply cram in as much melta as possible, leading to one dimensional armies that are easily outranged and outmanouvered. i not sure the devs in the list help any, if i was taking them i would go missiles to round out the army, if i was taking them...

possibly:

vulkan

5 sternies in rhino w hflamer/4 combi melta
2x mm/hf dread

2x 10 tacs in rhinos w mm/fl/combi melta
2x 5 tacs in lasplas w hunter killers

3x2 mm/hf speeders

2x dakkapread w hunter killers

you still have a massive amount of melting and flaming goodness to take advantage of vulkan but the lasplas and preads add some range and light vehicle supression which would help against dork eldar and the like immobilising you then sitting at range. the preads can also be used as av13 cover in a pinch which is always handy.

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Ryukishi · 715 weeks ago

Having not played in a while, I will say this much. I really like how flexible the author is in building a list for various point levels.

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Ajax · 715 weeks ago

Would Attack Bikes be a viable alternative to the Speeders? Surviability seems a wash when comparing T5/3+ to AV10, movement rates are about even, both benefit from Vulkan's special rule, and the bikes are a good deal more fluffy.

2 replies · active 715 weeks ago

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pringles978 · 715 weeks ago

usually i would say the attack bike/speeder argument is fairly 50/50 and down to personal taste, but if your taking vulkan the speeders win out every time due to the extra flame weapon.

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Digilante · 715 weeks ago

I don't think this list has enough rhino chassis to keep bikes alive. The key with bikes is that you can hide them behind your transport wall until it is time to jump out and melta something.

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Grand Master Raziel · 715 weeks ago

One thought I had is that if the Tac Squads are going to combat squad and commandeer the Dev Squad Rhinos, the short-ranged half could upgrade their tracks to Razorbacks. This denies them the top hatch to fire out of, but could increase the midrange firepower either with TL-assault cannon or everyone's favorite, LC+TLplas.

Another thought I had, if you want to control midfield without assigning Tacs to it, you could upgrade one Dev Squad to 10-strong and take a third at 10-strong. Switch their loadout to 2 MLs and 2 MMs each. The Devs combat squad and the half with the MMs go in the tracks. Park them midfield. If one MM in a track is a good midfield deterrant, two MMs in a track ought to be a better one, and you don't have to tie down a scoring unit to midfield denial.

Of course, this denies a shanghaied track to half a Tac Squad, but you could give them a ML instead and task them to sitting on a deployment-zone objective. With all the other stuff opponents are going to have to deal with, I don't think 5 Tacs with a single ML are going to be very high up on the target priority list.

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Grand Master Raziel · 715 weeks ago

I agree with pringle978 on the Devs. Any Devs not going in a track to play midfield-denial should get MLs. Getting free twin-linking courtesy of Vulkan is great and all, but over-concentrating on MMs doesn't leave one with a lot long-range surpression fire.

You could give heavy flamers to the Dreads. I know they're not as ideal a platform for them as Speeders, but you'd be surprised at how often you get to barbecue something with a Dread HF. I've never observed the dread storm bolter to have all that much impact on the course of a game, but a Dread HF can be game-changing.

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Grand Master Raziel · 715 weeks ago

Okay, 265pts will get you this:

Add +5 Marines to Dev Squad 2

Buy Dev Squad 3 wt 2xMM and Rhino

3xHFs for the Dreads

Devs on foot swap to MLs, one Tac Squad switches to ML.

Alternately, you could do this:

Increase both Dev Squads to 10-strong
*Devs get 2 MLs and 2MMs each
**Devs combat squad, MM-toting demi squads ride in tracks for area-denial

Tacs switch heavies to MLs
Tacs upgrade tracks to TLAC or Lasplas Razorbacks
One Tac takes a flamer instead of a meltagun (Vulkan rides with this squad)

3xHFs for the Dreads

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Scuzgob 96p · 715 weeks ago

dreadnought multimeltas arent twin linked. also, youve got like almost zero anti-horde firepower beyond just boltguns.
i really want to play this army with my usual ork army. the one with no vehicles and all the lootas

4 replies · active 715 weeks ago

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Coopervisor · 715 weeks ago

They are with Vulkan in the list, which is kinda the point.

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Scuzgob 96p · 715 weeks ago

oh derp!

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Sethis · 715 weeks ago

6 Twin Linked Heavy Flamers on the Speeders, a Twin Linked Heavy Flamer on Vulkan, and potentially three more twin linked heavy flamers on the dreadnoughts is hardly "almost zero" anti-horde...

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Scuzgob 96p · 715 weeks ago

10 tl heavy flamers in 2000pts? oh no!
thats the most threatening anti-horde firepower ive ever seen

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Archnomad 70p · 715 weeks ago

I like actual bikers with Vulkan. Like, normal ones. They get a lot from him boosting their weapons, and it compensates somewhat for the low range of the list, whilst keeping within the Hybrid feel.

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I_and_I · 715 weeks ago

Death to the most whored out special character ever and all who use him. Vulkan is undeniably fantastic, and simultaneously the single lamest to use model in existence. When a 10 person RTT has 5 Vulkan lists and 90% of vanilla marine players use him something needs to change. May GW give him the Karamazov treatment in the next codex...

1 reply · active 715 weeks ago

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artemi7 78p · 715 weeks ago

Karamazov? You mean the guy who had crappy stats and a easily shot, freaking huge model that they made into a dude who can attach to squads, use orbital strikes as melee weapons, and has useful aura?

I thought you said that you wanted Vulkan to be weaker...?

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Anne · 714 weeks ago

"and if you aren't, why not? :) "
Screw everything about this mindset. I hate people who look down on others because they want a game to last an hour or two, not a day or two. I've also recently been in the 'build an army' phase where I only OWNED 1500 points of models, and I got sneered at because I couldn't 'play with the real men'. Fuck. That.

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VIC5 · 706 weeks ago

lol The latest Vanilla list I ran was quite similar to the OP's except I didn't have Vulkan, fudged some points around for assaultinators, and had missiles instead of multi-meltas on my devs and autocannons on my dreads. So sacrificed very reliable close-range anti-tank for more long-ranged anti-tank and anti-infantry. I made the list because sometimes the dakka-preds would have trouble busting the heavier armors or avoiding getting shake/stun-locked. I have to say it ran quite well, I was quite pleased with the list. I would run either iteration (mine and the OP's (with a few tweaks for more range)) again in a heart-beat, if I had the army or the funds to make it.