
This is one of the worst things you can hear from someone else in the game (aside from "You're cheating" or some of the strings of obscenities) because it's not just rude, presumptuous, and self-righteous, it's also outright wrong.
There is no "right" fluff for an army. A lot of people get up in arms about things like being able to field a ton of Purifiers or having Grey Knights and Daemonhosts in the same army, but I think that's very wrongheaded and harms the hobby as a whole. Maybe my Purifiers or Daemonhosts represent something else; or maybe my GK are part of a secret order of Purifiers that keeps itself hidden from the rest of the Imperium and thus aren't part of the small contingent that is name in the GK codex. Or maybe I just want to play some damn Purifiers and stop having a hissy fit, you big babby.
Everyone has a right to dictate their own army fluff; that's part of the great thing about 40K, because it's set in a universe so fantastically large that even all of the cannon fluff we've seen so far doesn't even scratch the surface of what the Imperium contains. There are TRILLIONS of people in the Imperium, and a thousand (or so) Marine chapters; I think there have been maybe a hundred named planets and a similar number of official chapters. There is room for whatever wacky idea you see fit to put down on paper, if you so please.
So why is it some people insist on telling you what is and isn't "right" for your army? If I like Thunderwolves, or Purifiers, or Trygons, or Razorbacks, or Nobz, or whatever thing I have focused on, who are you to tell me that I'm violating the fluff? Sure, most Space Wolf bands probably aren't dragging around fifteen giant mutant space puppies, but who knows, maybe one of them is? It's not like those guys are anal-retentive like the Ultras are. Maybe my Guard regiment consists of only the best of the best from several planets who have been organized into an elite human strike force to complement the usual "overwhelming numbers" style of regular Guard regiments? Schaeffer's Last Chancers, anyone? Don't tell me all Veterans is "unfluffy," because that's bullshit; anything can be fluffy if you want it to be.
I'm not saying you have to like it; it's perfectly understandable if someone else's view of an army doesn't mesh with your own. One of the Marine players in my area thinks all-bike armies are stupid and shouldn't exist, even though they're written right into the Codex Astartes. And that's entirely within his rights, too- you aren't required to like anything. But try to exercise a little bit of tact when someone else brings an army that doesn't suit your personal tastes, okay? I totally don't get why anyone would want to play Footdar because I think it's about the dumbest thing in the world, but it's their choice to do so. If someone spends the money and time to make an army, let them; it's not yours or anyone else's place to dictate the army they want to play.
And yes, not everyone who plays an army will have a deep and extensively detailed backstory for it; that's fine, too. Some people enjoy doing that, some people don't. Some people like to name their models, some people just wanna play Future Chess With Tanks. Neither way is right or wrong, they're just different from each other. If someone asks you for advice on how to make their fluff more interesting- or their list more competitive- sure, go ahead and give it, but don't burst in unasked and inform them that their army is bad and they should feel bad. Let them enjoy this hobby as they please, just as you do.
muggins12 45p · 706 weeks ago
yazchar 62p · 706 weeks ago
kildash · 706 weeks ago
the difference is small, but qutie important, i think.
yazchar 62p · 706 weeks ago
Bushido Red Panda · 706 weeks ago
dvs0ne · 706 weeks ago
yazchar 62p · 706 weeks ago
TheDuke07 · 706 weeks ago
yazchar 62p · 706 weeks ago
chumbalaya 79p · 706 weeks ago
spaguatyine 20p · 706 weeks ago
Roland Durendal · 706 weeks ago
Anyways.....excellent article.
artemi7 78p · 706 weeks ago
Roland Durendal · 706 weeks ago
Wallshammer · 706 weeks ago
I think you're actually misinterpreting the term. Fluffy is according to the games storyline. Making up your own ideas/story to justify something makes it YOUR fluff, not fluffy.
Pro Fluffer · 706 weeks ago
I wouldn't criticise the list since I tend to agree that you now have to work quite hard to make anything close to unfluffy within the armylists but if people have written background and wants to discuss it that's just great,now this might mean I tell them that certain areas are weak but that is part of a discussion.
Sethis · 706 weeks ago
If you can find an esoteric way to explain why you have ~15 Long Fangs (Vets), ~8 Wolf Guard (Vets), ~3 TWCav (Vets), ~5 Scouts (Vets) and ~40 Grey Hunters (Experienced) yet NO new recruits of any kind (Blood/Sky/BikeClaws) then that's great. Just so you're not labouring under the delusion that such an army is either normal or what the army book says is commonplace.
artemi7 78p · 706 weeks ago
Does Crowe never lead his own group of Purifiers out to the battlefield to gain some relic of incredible power that other GKs can't handle? Is it not possible that maybe, just MAYBE, the fact that the guy leading the Purifier order, presumably a dude with high rank and some importance to the Grey Knights, wouldn't have 30 Purfiers to go along with him into battle? Are you seriously saying that in the ENTIRE IMPERIUM, a setting of trillions of people across thousands of planets, that there is less then 30 Purifiers available for a battle that their order's leader is leading?
Wallshammer · 706 weeks ago
I am an advocate of letting people play whatever they want. What I frown upon, as mentioned, is people calling it fluffy. It isn't. It's game efficient. Too many people are afraid to admit they take stuff for the rules and disguise their guilt in fluff.
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
Roland Durendal · 706 weeks ago
Example. My SW army, the "Varyags of Miklagaard VII" is based off of an Amon Amarth song and the historical Varangian Guard of the Byzantine Empire. The "fluff" is simple (or rather hhere's the dumbed down short version for everyone), they were on a Crusade and answered a planet's call for help. They came, helped fight off one Xenos/heretical group (which took many many years) only to have the decades of bloodshed attract an even bigger threat (Orks). Fast forward, after decades (or nearly a century) of constant war for this small backwater planet, all the original Blood Claws are dead or are now Grey Hunters, all the original Grey Hunters are now Long Fangs, a few became Wolf Scouts, and of all the original Wolf Guard, only 5 remain. Oh and to drive home the "we're isolated and lost working with the IG" slant, all the LF's (except for like 6) have IG Missile Launcher Conversions. Why? Because they have no access anymore to Astartes ML's and had to make due with what the Guard had.
Boom. Fluff consistent with the Canon.
artemi7 78p · 706 weeks ago
In any Black Library novel I care to recall, Space Marines always win their engagements by the end of the first night. *rolls eyes*
willydstyle · 705 weeks ago
@BadgerRustler · 706 weeks ago
Fluffy doesn't have to mean not competitive and the opposite is true.
Put your army on the table, have some fun and it's all good by me.
Granesh · 706 weeks ago
I totally agree with Abusepuppy here though. No one should bug you on how to run your army. You want to run an all Vet guard army? Go for it! All Thousand Sons? Go for it too. Its your game, play it how YOU want to play it.
Granesh
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
Andy Akins · 706 weeks ago
And I'm one of those "fluffy" army guys. I only play armies that -I- feel are fluffy. But I would never tell someone else how to build/play their army.
timff8 · 706 weeks ago
I don't think you have to play a 'fluffy' army list. For example, I play a DoA Blood Angels list; it's very fluffy, because it's a classic image and I play it in a non-cookie-cutter fashion.
A non-fluffy list would be someone playing Blood Angels with all Tactical marines sitting back-field with a single giant squad of Death Company sitting back-field in a LRC, just so you can field a whole crap-ton of dreadnoughts.
Can you play a non-fluffy list? Sure. Why not. But, don't pretend you're playing the army, when all you're doing is playing the codex.
Do you see what I'm saying? I don't care at all if you play a 'non-fluffy' list in the sense that you're using a list that isn't what the book is best at (i.e. Blood Angels playing a foot-based shooting army). But, I do care if you're playing a codex so you can abuse some design kinks (Dude! If I buy a box of Death Company, I can field, like, eight dreadnoughts if I count my guys as Blood Angels! Score!).
chumbalaya 79p · 706 weeks ago
It boggles the mind.
I mean, shit, why even have options in a Codex? Blood Angels only use Assault Marines, Space Wolves only use Blood Claws and Imperial Guard only use hordes of Conscripts. Damn, I just wrote 3 fluffy Codices. I'm awesome.
timff8 · 706 weeks ago
That's not what I am saying.
Please stop speaking to me as though I am a douchebag.
What I'm saying is that If you're playing an army of all tactical marines sitting back-field with a token unit of DC so you can take DC dreadnoughts with your Blue-book-geared marines, you're not playing Blood Angels. You could play the same army and still be playing Blood Angels if you purchased those units to work together as a cohesive army, not playing the Blood Angels codex JUST so you can field more dreadnoughts.
I use Tactical marines in my Blood Angels army. I have 20 of them and only 5 assault marines in one of my 2K lists. I'm not saying those units aren't fluffy. It's all about HOW and WHY you are using them.
Actually, I would kind of like to see a Wolves army that runs Blood Claws, or a Guard Army that runs Conscripts. I'm the only person I know that even HAS conscripts at my FLGS.
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
See, the problem I have with "you're not playing Blood Angels" is that's not really a fair thing to say from the fluff. I mean, okay, if you call them Blood Angels and paint them like BA then sure, that's not BA combat doctrine- but shit, if you wanna be that specific, all of the leaders of the companies of BA are named, so you can't bring a "generic" captain without violating fluff. Assuming you're playing your "own" chapter, you can have any fluff you want. Games Workshop is very specific about that: anything you want can be right by the fluff, because what they give you is intentionally only a small part of it. It's not _canon_, but that's not the same thing at all.
timff8 · 706 weeks ago
I feel I should re-word what I said previously.
It's not so much that I think you're not playing "Blood Angels" when you play that way. I think what I mean, more accurately, is that I feel 'if you're playing an army like that, why did you choose Blood Angels?'
There absolutely are marine armies like the example I gave. But, it is FAR more likely that they belong to a different chapter. And, hell, that chapter probably has units and/or rules that make that formation work better.
blacksly · 706 weeks ago
timff8 · 706 weeks ago
That's not the point. For argument's sake, please replace my previous mention of Dreadnoughts with 6, rather than 8.
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
That aside, why are you complaining? Is it the Tacticals that bother you, or the Dreads? What's the problem here? Despite what most lists will tell you, Blood Angels actually have three times as many Tactical Marines as Assault Marines, so I think the "crazy" list you're mentioning is actually closer to fluff than virtually any BA list you can find floating around out there.
timff8 · 706 weeks ago
I find it silly to play Blood Angels just because they can field more dreadnoughts.
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
When someone tells me that they picked tri-Monolith Necrons "because the army is so powerful," I can basically do nothing but stare at them like they have sprouted an extra head. Likewise, if they bring a corrupted SoB army to the table, I am probably going to consider them a creepy fuck that I don't want to talk to any more than I have to. Even so, both of those people have every right to play the game if they so choose and my opinions of their fluff, rules, and personality do not change that. I am not going to say to their face that their army is stupid and I hate it- and I think that level of respect should be universal in the hobby. The fact that it is not is a huge strike against many of us as gamers.
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
Ultramarines. Mortifactors. Point disproven.
Many successor chapters do not fight in a similar manner to their parent.
>if you're playing an army like that, why did you choose Blood Angels?'
Because they like the Blood Angels fluff and/or paint job? Because they like the army playstyle? Because they wanted to be able to field 7+ Dreads? Because they play BA anyways and this army is an alternate for their main? There's tons of entirely valid reasons.
I think you're being overly-restrictive in your view of the fluff. By your measure, 99% of players aren't playing fluffy armies, which I think is well past the point at which you need to re-evaluate how you are making your assessments.
Notanoob · 706 weeks ago
Fluffy lists are lists that are likely to happen in universe, so seeing a bunch of BA Tacs wouldn't be unfluffy, it just wouldn't play to their theme. On the other hand, seeing 40 Purifiers, Leafblower lists, or Razorwolf isn't fluffy because they're not going to occur outside of highly unusual circumstances that require long explanations.
However, I always assign some blame to codex writers who make fluffy lists weaker than stranger non-fluffy lists, or make previously impossible or ridiculous lists possible, like the Demonhosts with GKs mentioned earlier. Its not a player's fault if they want a good list and they don't happen to be terribly fluffy.
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
Eh. Why not just call it a strike force? I mean, every game of 40K is "improbable" because they usually involve grand personalities fighting each other. How many times has Marneus Calgar punched Abaddon to death in the fluff? Zero, as far as I'm aware, but it still happens on the table all the time.
>daemonhosts and GK
For crying out loud...
timff8 · 706 weeks ago
artemi7 78p · 706 weeks ago
Any time a Marine army fights a Marine army is incredibly improbable. Two Space Wolves? Sure, training exercise or whatever. But why are Ultramarines and Blood Angels even in the same warzone? They operate in totally different sectors of the galaxy, for the most part!
Tau are a great one. Any time you fight Tau, you are automaticlly in Tau space, way at the eastern Rim of the galaxy. Even if you are, say, Abbadon, who's Eye of Terror is near polar opposite of the Tau.
I don't get this mindset. I'll pick at your bad fluff as long as I can ignore the larger problems around this battle.
Abakus · 706 weeks ago
Let's consider: The most difficult one is Razorwolves. Why do the notoriously barbaric space wolves "Gunline it?" I always imagine them yelling, "COME AT ME, BRO!" and suddenly they seem more space-wolfy. And when you do come at them, they come at you right back.
Crap, that last sentence got away from me really fast. Moving on...
40 Purifiers. Extremely rare, yeah. So are ALL deployments of Grey Knights in the universe. And yet, time and again, pure Purifier forces are mentioned in the Codex. Or at least, several times. Heck, they make more sense than MOST builds, fluff-wise, as a super-elite cadre of the purest of the pure come to tackle some special, highly dangerous assignment.
And Leafblowers. Really? You think every Guard regiment is based around guys with angry flashlights rather than guys with artillery? If I was the governor of an imperial planet, I'd make sure my armies were nothing but leafblower lists and Vendetta spam. Screw lasguns, dude.
Abakus · 706 weeks ago
Except bikes. I'm with that one guy, Puppy, they're pretty dumb :D
timff8 · 706 weeks ago
Rhino-mounted Wolves seems much more their thing fi you want to mech them up. Then you can zoom around to get to that feet-on-the-ground, face-pounding combat they love. Otherwise they're doing something that Russ would not have taught them to use as their go-to fighting style.
Admittedly, they might find it useful to play the Razorwolves tactics against certain enemies. But that should be a list you only play on occaision, not a list you field every time. Just like I have a min-maxed shooty Blood Angels force, which I only play every fourth game or so, because I know it's probably not the likely mode of battle they would elect to use.
Abakus · 706 weeks ago
A fluffy army needn't be fluffy under EVERY SINGLE SITUATION (otherwise GW would sell lists, not codices), it just has to be something someone would logically field.
And for that last BA point, who's to say there isn't some BA captain who thinks, "Ya know, maybe the ultras got it right, since fluffily, Calgar IS my spiritual liege," and decided that his troops were better off using their bolters than their chainswords? If you have more fun with the shooty list, use it all the time! If not, don't, just do what ya do!
timff8 · 706 weeks ago
My battles would be conducted within the allotted amount of battles marines generally have, not within the amount that all armies ever have.
Well, video games are video games. I'm FAR more okay with 3 marines saving a planet than ONE Master Chef(misspelling intentional). Although in Dawn of War it seems much more similar to the board game, where there are less marines than any other army,but you still have like 50 of them.
Everything ever I ever say about this game is a blanket statement. The fact that there will be exceptions, and that an exception is probably 20% of cases, is built-in to any statement I make. I never use absolute articles, or at least try not to (see?).
So I'm not saying that I'm right and everythign ever should be how I envision it. This is a general opinion of general modes of play. GERERAL, I SAY!
Sethis · 706 weeks ago
Captain/Libby/Chaplain
2-3 Tac Squads + Optional Transports
1 Assault Squad
1 Dev Squad
1 Dreadnought/Terminators/Land Raider
1 Misc unit (Bikes/Speeders/Predators/Vindicators/Scouts etc)
Because that's a balanced force that has amounts of stuff proportional to how the Ultramarine codex says they are fielded. That is how Vanilla Space Marines most commonly fight, ergo it should be the most common way to structure your army. Having more or less every Marine player view Tac Marines as a 400pt handicap while they load out on TH/SS Termies, Sternguard and Riflemen is not conducive to having what appears on the table match what is printed in the book.
timff8 · 706 weeks ago
+1 Internet Cookie!
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
Multimelta and Heavy Flamer variants charging in? Yeah, sure, that makes sense. Lascannon ones? Not so much.
timff8 · 706 weeks ago
If you wan to drive your Razors around in a wagon-circle, fine, but your gusy should probably be out to actually do stuff.
I can't see any Space Wolf absolutley loving the idea of riding around in a kennel.
Roland Durendal · 706 weeks ago
timff8 · 706 weeks ago
Grovel 61p · 705 weeks ago
Notanoob · 706 weeks ago
With the Purifiers, they're mentioned as being few in number, so having 40 or so show up to clean up some Tau just seems dumb. But really, that was more of an example than anything, I've taken to basically ignoring the fluff in 5th edition books anyways, so new stuff like Purifiers just isn't getting me angry, stupid or not.
Razorwolf isn't explicitly unfluffy at all, I concede, but you can understand how having shooty Space Wolves just looks and feels wrong.
SomeCallMeTim · 706 weeks ago
timff8 · 706 weeks ago
FOTM · 706 weeks ago
Elleusive · 706 weeks ago
The exception being close friends who I joke and tease about having unfluffy armies (which has caused one friend to write out a background explaining why each unit exists in his apoc force, hehe).
I'm not convinced of the "Any army can be fluffy" idea, but only when you reach extremes (typically around the Apocalyse size). In general sized games then I do agree that you can come up with some personal fluff as to why its going on.
E.g. I'd quite certainly want an explanation if a Blood Angel player was fielding more than 160 Assault Marines or any Marine player (excluding Space Wolves/Salamanders etc) were to use more than a hundred veterans while insisting they are from the same chapter and not including successor chapters. Some things are written down afteral.. Just damn unlikely to occur and then easily explained (successor chapters etc).
Blood-Beard · 706 weeks ago
And I agree saying "that's not fluffy" when what you mean is "that's ass-pounding combination that would be pretty rare as described in your codex" is just a form of bad sportsmanship.
What I actually object to is type of fluff-screwing where slaneesh generals lead khorne troops. Just because the books allow it, doesn't stop me from remembering that khorne champions get extra recognition from their god for slaughtering the said decadent followers of slaneesh, and only half as much for mowing down fools who just worship the emperor. (ref Slaves to Darkness p55 circa1988 when I got into this hobby..)
From my perspective, World eater Legionaires are more likely to have Creed or the Sanguinator leading them than some Lash-Prince. And when someone complained recently on these hallowed forums that their "double Lash sorcerer led beserker army scored low on fluffy comp and i have no idea why" I had a little "noob-chortle".
But I certainly wouldn't bring i up with someone unless they were pushing the composition of said affront to the blood God in my face as in character and fluffy. Then I might have to unleash my beardy snigger-dom upon them.
But generally not, because even if I'm filled with inner gleeward beard-happy being an ass-hat is only acceptable on the internet, right?
brotheroracle · 706 weeks ago
Seriously I do not understand problems with legal lists, I'm just happy to be playing the damn game instead of working. I change my lists often and even armies I have fluff for some, but not every list I take.
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
SomeCallMeTim · 706 weeks ago
Extremely doubtful that there is a full brotherhood, because they would have said that then.
It is still okay, IMO. You can't field more then 60 with Crowe, and that seems fluffy to me.
Page 12 and 31 in the GK codex.
artemi7 78p · 706 weeks ago
aurenian · 706 weeks ago
In the same way your own fanfic or army background can contradict the more common fluff, but it is still canon in your version. People cherry pick their favourite bits of 40k background all the time. How power armour works, the nature of the warp, the exact powers of the inquisition etc.
This game is what you make it.
For example in 'my' version of 40k I leave out Draigo's fluff :)
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
Grovel 61p · 705 weeks ago
Myreknight · 706 weeks ago
I begin to take offense when I start seeing blood angel khorne armies, and other such things. I'm not saying that everyone who has these are just switching to the better codex or because they feel that their codex is no longer competitive. It just happens to be that most of the times I've had the luck to come across those armies it is that someone no longer feels the CSM codex is competitive and won't play it anymore. I'm speaking from experience as I've had a nurgle army since second edition, and yes it is a very hard codex to play now, and I've had the luck of nurgle still being a competitive build, but just because its hard to play, should we ignore fluff and game mechanics and play Khorne blood angel armies or GK thousand sons? Hell I've let many chaos players I play with at my local store run last edition codex armies because it happens to fit power level wise better. I cannot however just give in and allow Chaos to have atsknf, because if nothing else that's a very blatant boost to the army.
All that being said I have seen a very well modeled and painted pre heresy GK Thousand Sons army.
@aurenian
I prefer to ignore draigo's fluff too.
Elias Macale · 706 weeks ago
I disagree; because frankly, the CSM book isn't competitive anymore. If the rules in a book no longer (or never have) represented the fluff well, why should a player who loves said fluff be restricted to playing a book that's hamstrung by it's age or poor design? There are very few ways to build a good CSM list, and I don't think any of them involve some of my favorite units in that book; Defilers, Chaos Lords, Raptors, Thousand Sons. I'm going to have less fun fielding a chaos marine army without the units I like, so why bother when there's a book out that represents that stuff way better? Who are you to tell me that my army that I put time and effort into building and painting and making wysiwyg for the Blood Angels or Grey Knight codex is unfluffy.
Liking/Respecting the fluff and wanting to play competitively are not mutually exclusive.
"I cannot however just give in and allow Chaos to have atsknf, because if nothing else that's a very blatant boost to the army. "
This is absurd, as is the fact that you take offense to this stuff. People playing counts-as armies aren't fighting a personal vendetta against you, you have nothing to gain or lose from trying to tell them not to have fun with the models they've spent time and money on. And Chaos kind of need a blatant boost to approach competitive. I agree that ultimately that boost shouldn't be atsknf, but until a new book comes out, it should serve the purpose.
Myreknight · 706 weeks ago
Lurking Horror · 706 weeks ago
It'd be fun, just for the look on some people's faces when you do it.
blacksly · 706 weeks ago
Hm... Angry Mahreens.... check in both Codices. Better in CSM since it's built-in rather than dependent upon an Icon-Bearer (Sang Priest), but still check.
Angry Dreads... check in both Codices.
Berzerking Marines too angry to feel pain... only in BA.
Dudes too STUPID to field meltaguns against vehicles... only in CSM. I thought World Eaters were supposed to be bloodthirsty but professional warriors. Not idiots running forward with Plasma Pistols as their only heavy-weapon backup. What are you going to do, Khorne Axe the Rhinos to pieces?
My feeling about World Eaters is that as a professional army of crazed lunatic berzekers, they are better represented by the more-professional army of the Blood Angels Codex, than the idiots in the CSM codex. So, again, why wouldn't I use the BA Codex to run a World Eaters army?
Or a GK Codex for a Tzeentch army? Not necessarily Thousand Sons, although you could run the base ones as normal PAGK and the Squad Sorcs as the Squad Leader in GK. But certainly a Tzeentch-based army, full of sorcerors, would be better matched to the GK Codex than to the CSM Codex.
Night Lords as BA only, there isn't even a way to run a jump pack army in CSM.
Death Guard does fit better into CSM.
Loganwing works well for Emperor's Children although only about as well as the CSM Codex.
Myreknight · 706 weeks ago
If you want to represent the more professional versatile aspect of the army, try fielding CSM squads with mark of Khorne. Now you have World Eaters that have Melta.
Night Lords, yea thats unfortunate that you can't field all jump pack armies, but are Raven Guard any different?
If Blood Angels is such a nice fit, please explain to me why World Eaters have fast vehicles, field more heavy weapons than most marine armies, use storm ravens, and have Psyker Dreads?
So Night Lords and World Eaters have furious charge and feel no pain?
I know my Chaos rules and please don't pretend I don't.
What I was trying to get across is, if there are rules for it, use the rules. Sorry every army goes through ups and downs, old and new codices. So suck it up, put on your big boys pants, and learn to play with the codex.
tzeentchling 76p · 706 weeks ago
There's a difference between taking a Blood Angels army and saying "ok, these are Khornate Marines now" and building a BA army within the context of a World Eaters force, using rules and fluff that you like better while keeping the idea of the list the same.
Myreknight · 706 weeks ago
If someone built and painted the army to represent those things, blood from a chalice and special Khornate demagogues as priests that would be very cool. Very often however the priest is "That guy with the white shoulder pad."
@Elias
I do apologize for dragging counts as into this, it wasn't my intention to do so. However, a lot of the time the term fluff is used to recycle armies because the rules fit better. Fluff plays a part in many tournaments that are played in my area, and I do have a problem with people using codices for the same old armies and complaining when they get a bad score in the fluff section. As this is a mostly competitive site (At least what I see being posted most is competitive articles.) and seeing how fluff plays a part in tournaments in my area, is it wrong to expect that to be competitive with those list someone would have to explain how and why the mechanics of the adopted codex works?
Avatar · 706 weeks ago
Sethis · 706 weeks ago
That's an amazing concept! I can just imagine so many people at my club doing that.
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
Ajax · 706 weeks ago
"To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."
The key bit is that "[t]hese are the tales of those [grim dark future] times." Every bit of fiction and fluff presented in all of GW's books is a "tale," a partially true bit of fantasy told from the biased perspective of people in the universe, with agendas, innaccuracy, incomplete information, and sometimes flat-out lies. The game also spans a period of roughly 10,000 years, millions of worlds, and endless war... everything is "fluffy" because NOTHING is truly canon.
Walker · 706 weeks ago
I guess when I wrote my dissenting opinion on Sir Biscuit's article, I took my own local gaming culture for granted, as I've never encountered any major opposition from sore losers. I'm just now starting to realize that many of you have to justify your competitive style (different from WAAC, which I consider ass-hat behavior bordering on cheating) to every person you beat. That suck and I appologize on behalf of mankind.
SirTainly · 706 weeks ago
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
I can have both competitive and fluff-loving aspects to my enjoyment of the hobby. In telling me that I "have to justify my... style... to everyone [I] beat" is to ascribe motives you have invented for me for behavior you've never even seen. The Blood Angel list I wrote a whole article worth of backstory for I've never even played with IRL; where the fuck is the "need to justify winning" there?
jazz devil · 706 weeks ago
If you can pay the points, there it is: a legitimate narrative army.
The irony, of course, is that you can easily make up a compelling story out of any army list and fluff bullies fail to see it. Footdar? Advance strike force? Weird Eldar cult? Heavy Thunder Wolf cavalry? It's a tiny force of wolf riders, behind enemy lines. All Purifier list? 'Gather the flame-brothers. We face a dire foe.' All Fast Attacks are Spawn? It's bad to be a warband when the Geller Field goes down. Bike list? Scars. Raven Guard operating behind enemy lines. Like soldier X in the aussie SAS. Heavy Dread list? Fuck it. We. Are. The. Robot. Legion. Jokaero heavy list? Well, you could think of something. Or Counts As some sweet old Squats models and combi-weapon them up . 9 Oblits? There's a cult for that. All veteran army for IG? Well, I read this Dan Abnett book one time.
You get the belaboured point.
So yeah. I'm with Abusepuppy. 'Non-fluffy' really means 'I disagree conceptually with you and I want to make you feel bad.'
Fluff At All Cost players are bad, unimaginative and reductive. Unless the Sanguinor makes all that subtext text and turns up with his Necron boyfriend, riding Trigger the Trusty Tyrannid, I suspect it's impossible to be create a legal army list and 'unfluffy.'
Jazz Devil.
jazz devil · 706 weeks ago
Warrior_Warlock · 706 weeks ago
jazz devil · 706 weeks ago
No one wants to fight an elite paladin army made up of film rolls, wine corks and upturned coffee cups with 'Lazer Drednought' written on them in crayon. That's a different discussion.
But when you're told 'your army wouldn't do that', in role playing terms, it's someone sulking saying 'Captain Kirk wouldn't do that.'
Warrior_Warlock · 706 weeks ago
Cap · 706 weeks ago
Lurking Horror · 706 weeks ago
G_M_Raziel 32p · 706 weeks ago
I suppose if an all-Purifiers army was unfluffy, there wouldn't be a special character allowing players to take Purifiers as Troops.
That said, having skimmed over the responses to AB's post, I'm detecting a little bit of defensiveness over using another army's dex on a counts-as basis. Now, if you want to use the most competitive dex you can for tournament play, knock yourself out. However, is that a necessity for casual gaming?
abusepuppy 121p · 706 weeks ago
G_M_Raziel 32p · 706 weeks ago
Lurking Horror · 706 weeks ago
chumbalaya 79p · 706 weeks ago
Erasmus · 667 weeks ago