3++ is the new black. | Kirb your enthusiasm!: Gundam Boyz - Tau & Orks

Friday, August 24, 2012

Gundam Boyz - Tau & Orks

Posted by Unknown

So I've been playing around with the basis of Gundam Tau and trying to find an Allies fit which I think works best at 1750 points (the commonly played points level in Australia currently at tournaments). The problem was, even cutting back a bit on the suits there weren't that many points to play with for getting 2x10x MEQs + goodies to support the Tau in midfield and provide mobile scoring options. You could do it but it always felt stretched at 1750 and worked much better at 2000. Orks didn't have this issue however and thanks to Fearless changes, are a lot scarier in combat now since they don't fold like a wet paper bag.

So here's what I've come up with. We have the core of the Gundam Tau template and then we'ved added in two large Ork Boyz squads for midfield supporting & scoring, a Big Mek for utility on said Boyz and a small Loota + Kannon squads for even more firepower on the cheap which can be spread around. The end result:

Shas'el w/Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker, HW-BSF, Drone Controller, 2x Gun Drones

3x Crisis Suits w/Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker, Team Leader w/HW-BSF, Drone Controller, 2x Gun Drones
2x Crisis Suits w/Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker
3x Crisis Suits w/TL-Missile Pod, flamer, Team Leader w/HW-BSF, Drone Controller, 2x Gun Drones

8x Fire Warriors
8x Fire Warriors
8x Fire Warriors

1x Broadside w/BSF, Team Leader w/2x Shield Drones
1x Broadside w/BSF, Team Leader w/2x Shield Drones
1x Broadside w/BSF, Team Leader w/2x Shield Drones

Big Mek w/KFF

5x Lootas

20x Ork Boyz, Nob w/PKlaw, Bosspole
20x Ork Boyz, Nob w/PKlaw, Bosspole

3x Kannonz w/3x Ammo Runts, 6x Extra Crew

Totals: 1748 points

Lots of shooting and there's the two large Ork squads in midfield any opponent has to battle through to get to the main lines of guns. Only five Troops at 1750 is my major worry here, though I could take the 24 Fire Warriors and split them into groups of six and get six scoring options. Stil have 10 Crisis Suits though which gives the army a lot of firepower backed up by Kannonz, Lootas, Fire Warriors & Broadsides - though with only three Broadsides we also have to consider if that's enough? Potentially dropping the Lootas to get an extra Broadside in might be useful.

Anyway, discuss away.

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tzeentchling 76p · 659 weeks ago

Is it worth it to add the 5 lootas? I mean, they're nice and all, but just 5 orks in cover will not last long at all, and you don't have the saturation to make a small squad worth it.

And at 1750, 5 Troops is probably enough. Since your Troops aren't mobile, there's going to be a limit to how many objectives you'll be able to reach anyway.

I'd probably do two units of two broadsides with the points saved, each having one guy with a bsf and one guy with the drone controller. Or stick the points into making the two Boyz squads larger.

20 replies · active 658 weeks ago

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abusepuppy 121p · 659 weeks ago

The unit of Lootas is reasonably cheap and can hit the dirt if they get shot at. 48" range also allows them to avoid most weapons by virtue of distance.

They add flexibility and anti-flyer capability, both of which are nice to have.

Five troops is probably less than you'd like, but since Tau troops are kinda shit at taking objectives and you can't have more than two Ork troops, it's what you get. I'd prolly go with mobs of 30 at that point level, but it's a choice.

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tzeentchling 76p · 659 weeks ago

5 orks with a 4+ save are still gonna die quick. I personally don't think they're worth it when you can only take one small unit like this, but YMMV.

Eh, like I said. 5 Troops are fine at 1750. More would be nice, but it's not really needed. You could probably get away with 4 even. You need troops to capture objectives, but odds are only 2-3 will be within reach, since nothing is mobile and if the FW are that far up the board you're winning anyway (and the Orks will die as cannon fodder - but I agree 30-man mobs are probably better). So having enough to claim those and maybe a unit for backup is enough - Tau still win by shooting the opponent off objectives, not claiming all of them.

0 Vote up Vote down

Avatar · 659 weeks ago

Your other options for orks in the Elite slot aren't much better, though. Burnas and Tankbustas need a transport, and you can't give them a lift. Meganobz in a wagon is a much bigger chunk of your point total. Lootas do make for a fairly fragile backfield unit, but if your opponent is putting his early long-range anti-infantry into them, he's probably not shooting at your fire warriors - and if he puts his heavy stuff into the lootas then he's ignoring your Broadsides and suits, and is going to have a bad, very bad, no good day shortly.

"SHOOT THE LOOTAS" works great in an Ork list because they're the most dangerous ranged unit you're facing and also very easy to shoot up. That's not the case in a Tau army, so if it causes your opponent to mistake their target priority, then that's all for the good. And they're not bad by any means if your opponent leaves them alone...

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tzeentchling 76p · 659 weeks ago

Yeah, but I see no real reason to take Elites other than to say "I got Lootas." I'd rather simply put those points elsewhere, but that's just me.

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JDR · 658 weeks ago

Is shooting the lootas really a target priority mistake? That's by far the easiest way to remove shooting from the board, or at least halve it's effectiveness by forcing them to go to ground, and maybe forcing a morale test on poor ork leadership. Also, it's easy to say they'll just sit in area terrain, but there's only so much terrain on the board and a lot of thing in this list that will want to make use of it. I'd put the points elsewhere.

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Ronnoc · 659 weeks ago

Going to ground in area terrain is +2 to cover, so they'll have a 3+ generally.

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abusepuppy 121p · 659 weeks ago

Once people start actually shooting the Lootas, yes, they will probably go down. (They should be sitting in area terrain for that 3+ when GtG, tho.) But at 75pts, you don't really care that much.

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Threadmiser 79p · 658 weeks ago

The thing people seem to be missing is that Lootas are the perfect trap. You could not shoot at them, but that leaves them free to pepper you with some decent extra firepower at range. You could shoot them, but that leaves you shifting quite a few shots into the breeze(it's 5 models with a 3+ cover save, short of flamers that's basically an invul, how hard is it to kill models with a storm shield again?) and not be killing the scoring units.

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SageoftheTimes 77p · 659 weeks ago

You want to have all your suits w/ PR/MP (if you REALLY want one w/ TL-MP, go for a targeting array so they'll at least deal damage). The gun drones are a VERY easy way to torrent your suits down, so upgrade them to Shield drones and try to take advantage of any BLoS you can find.

Also, consider getting a Dakkajet if you can find the points.

As for troops, you want to focus on Orks for troops to save points. Shoota Boyz might actually be better here then regular ones (don't know if they cost more, though). Kroot may be an option here w/ Orks acting as bubblewrap (cheaper + more bodies = less chance of running).

Main problems I see with running it are that anything that can get to your suits will have an easy time taking them out (so be prepared for that), and the low Lootas squad (try for 8-10, ditch some FWs or something else useless).

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tzeentchling 76p · 659 weeks ago

Disagree, the TLMP/Flamer squad has been quite useful in my experience. They still hit on 4+ with a reroll, and the flamers give them options, keep them cheap, and make people hesitate to assault them. They're also the best answer for Tau to aircraft, and TA's don't help there.

The gun drones are there to catch missiles and las, so your suits don't auto-die when a Long Fangs squad fires at them. They still essentially get the Crisis toughness since they're not the majority models, but you're right that a 4+ save is worse than a 3+/4++. Shield drones just don't add enough to the squad to make them worth 10 points more, IMO.

The Dakkajet is fun and a decent model, but in this list I'd want to take fliers for anti-flier, and S6 isn't going to get the job done against heavier fliers.

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abusepuppy 121p · 659 weeks ago

Deathrain (TLMP) suits are actually quite valuable- I've found the Missile + Drone Controller to be very nice, as it puts out a lot of twin-linked dakka and is pretty cheap. Fireknives are expensive and potentially quite vulnerable to most firepower.

I would always run Shoota Boyz with Tau- you're looking to push forward and put a bunch of shots out at the enemy; charges are a bonus.

>anything that can get to your suits will have an easy time taking them out

This is just part of being Tau- your stuff is rather fragile. Don't let them do that thing.

>and the low Lootas squad (try for 8-10

I would disagree- more Lootas just mean more models to run off the board after a failed morale check. The squad is fragile- investing more points won't change that.

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Jidmah 68p · 659 weeks ago

Shoota boyz cost no extra points over slugga boyz and there is no reason not to take them anymore, unless you don't own the models. Between overwatch(both receiving and dishing out), fleet/run changes and reduced cover, shoota boyz are simply way superior.

Lootaz should only be used in mobz of 5 or 15, anything in between will result in a lot of points simply running off the board or being pinned.

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tzeentchling 76p · 659 weeks ago

Here's my take:

Shas'El, MP/PR/MT, HW-BSF

3x Crisis, MP/PR/MT, Team Leader with HW-BSF
3x Crisis, MP/PR/MT, Team Leader with HW-BSF
3x Crisis, TLMP/Flamer - 141 (note Shas'El goes here turn 1 if there's night fight)

8x FW
8x FW
8x FW
8x FW

2 Broadsides. One with DC, 2 shield drones; one with BSF
2 Broadsides. One with DC, 2 shield drones; one with BSF

Big Mek with KFF - 85
20 Shootas, Nob with PK
20 Shootas, Nob with PK
3x Big Gunz Cannons, 3 ammo runts

Comes to 1749. Basically, the Lootas and Gun Drones went into getting a 4th Troops unit and another suit back. Rearranging the Broadsides makes them marginally cheaper, since there's less shield drones sucking up points, at the cost of limiting yourself to two targets a turn instead of 3. On the plus side, you're more likely to actually destroy those targets with two shots. You could always drop the 4th FW squad and put the points into Orks instead, that's at least 6 more per squad.

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abusepuppy 121p · 659 weeks ago

Hmm. Four Broadsides, no Markerlights, no Targeting Array feels a bit weak on that front. Also, putting a Klaw on the Mek is nice because, as an IC, he is pretty well-protected.

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tzeentchling 76p · 659 weeks ago

I'll note Kirby's original list had 3 broadsides, no markerlights, and no TAs. Yeah, putting a klaw on the Mek would be a good way to spend some points, and it might be worth finding them somewhere.

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Kirby 118p · 659 weeks ago

Maybe it's Puppys shot at me :P!

I'd like 4x Broadsides but not really a fan of dropping all the Drones to free up those points necessary. The drones force anti-infantry fire at the Crisis first unless they want to waste lascannons/missiles.

All about the fiddling of course so will see what's what - Lootas might be a good thing to drop which allows for bigger Boyz units, 4 Broadsides and FW at size 9, etc. Might be that extra squad of firepower forces the opponent to be stretched too thin and it might be that the drones do jack all in pairs and thus better to save the points and get all the stuff we just said, etc.

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tzeentchling 76p · 659 weeks ago

Well, drop a squad of FW to get the points for Gun Drones. Done! 20 points left over even.

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MrDrumMachine · 658 weeks ago

I'm pretty sure the broadsides are illegal, I thought their hard point had to be the same across the whole squad?

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tzeentchling 76p · 658 weeks ago

Nope! I thought so too so I double checked in the Codex, and that requirement isn't there. I think it was back in the 3rd ed codex though, because I definitely remember that being a requirement at one time. But the Broadside entry doesn't say that the hard point has to be the same, at least nowhere that I could find it. And not that it means much, but AB agrees with me and allows it.

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Garnet · 658 weeks ago

What you're probably thinking of is the notation in the Advanced Stabilization System, which states that if one model in the unit has it, they all have to have it.

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Coyote81 · 659 weeks ago

I find the list to be very solid, although my one comment is that I find 2 shield drones on one broadside to be overkill and reduces the ability to hide the unit from fire, due to drone being able to been seen. You could use those points to beef up the lootas a little, or get some Shas'ui for your ld 7 troops.

4 replies · active 659 weeks ago

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abusepuppy 121p · 659 weeks ago

It's a lot of protection, but it's also a unit that is going to draw a lot of fire.

Adding more bodies to the Lootas just means you'll lose more models when they get shot. The Lootas are expendable.

Shas'uis are a horrible investment. I would never take them in this edition.

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tzeentchling 76p · 659 weeks ago

Care to explain that last bit? The difference between Ld 8 and Ld 7 when getting shot at is somewhat significant (combat is a foregone conclusion anyway). Likewise all the random Ld based attacks and things out there. It does hurt that they're the same cost as another FW, but the Ld boost I have found worth it. If I had to pay for it, I'd want to only pay 5, so having to pay 5 more than I think they're worth isn't horrible waste.

I never bothered with Shas'ui before, since a)they were 6-man FWVU and b)if I needed better Ld, I'd attach the Shas'el and give him a Target Lock so neither squad's fire was hampered (did the same with Kroot). Now, I find myself taking more guys, so losing them to morale checks is worse, and there's no more TL so joining them with a character is less appealing.

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SageoftheTimes 77p · 659 weeks ago

Tau work by shooting enemies off the board. If they're attacking your Fire Warriors, they're not killing the (extremely) easy to kill Suits/Broadsides. And as for FWs, you can buy their LD 8 if you'd like, but it wont make them any more survivable to torrent.

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abusepuppy 121p · 659 weeks ago

Ld8 instead of Ld7 is a bonus, certainly, and significant enough, but with such low survivability I don't think it will really help. As noted below, Tau really rely on their firepower, not on their survivability, to get them through a game; while it's nice to have better leadership, in the end it just means that you'll eat some more Heavy Bolter rounds before dying.

5pts for a Shas'ui might be a different matter, but 10pts is just too much of a tax for a mediocre Ld number. The new Ld rules help a lot in that regard, but I still think the points generally are better spent elsewhere. (Having a squad of nine is a pretty decent deal, though- harder to force checks on you and more firepower as well.)

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Scuzgob 96p · 659 weeks ago

i look at it and i want to add more lootas

2 replies · active 659 weeks ago

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tzeentchling 76p · 659 weeks ago

and want to paint them black?

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abusepuppy 121p · 659 weeks ago

Well, I mean, there IS this red door right here....

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Tim W · 659 weeks ago

Nice list...I am sure it will be strong. But this is my problem with the allies rules...Tau and orks together visually just look odd. They just don't match. That said, neither did Kroot and Tau.

2 replies · active 658 weeks ago

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artemi7 78p · 659 weeks ago

But... that's the Tau's WHOLE SHTICK, is hiring mercenaries of other races. Why wouldn't they have Orks? Sure, the ones they run into in fluff don't seem to want to band together, but if Chaos in DoW can get Orks to play along, so can Tau.

That said, i might try to cut some Broadside shield drones to bump the orks up to 30 strong each, maybe?

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Salvation122 · 658 weeks ago

So model 'em as Kroot (and make absolutely 100% certain you tell your opponent, multiple times, that they're counts-as orks.) Done.

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Martin · 659 weeks ago

Kirby, have you planned to make a similar list for Necrons w Orks? I would be very interesting to see how you would do a AV13 wall w Orks-list.

11 replies · active 658 weeks ago

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Martin · 659 weeks ago

I will try a list like this in my next game:

2 lordbarges
3 Arks w 5 warriors, 2 lancecrypteks in each
2 Night schytes w 5 warriors
2 Annihilation barges

1 warboss, powerklaw, bosspole
2x20 boys w nob, bosspole

Any thoughts?

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Mr.darkness · 659 weeks ago

Yes, I would love a necrorks post. I am trying to perfect my necron army and irks seem to be the way to go. As it is then my wall of av 13 is getting assaulted, so I would ole some sort of bubble wrap, which irks seem perfect for.

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Algesan · 659 weeks ago

1x Big Mek w/ KFF
2x Shoota Boyz Mobs (26 Shoota Boyz, 3 Big Shoota Boyz, 1 Nob w/ Boss Pole)

Just over 500 points there. From that you can build your Necron list and see if there are extra points to be added in here and some of the points can be rearranged.

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chumbalaya 79p · 659 weeks ago

I'm taking Necrorks to Nova.

Zahndrekh
5 Deathmarks + despairtek + Scythe
6 Warriors + pulsetek + Scythe
2x 5 Warriors + stormtek + Scythe
5 Tomb Blades
3 A Barges

KFF Mek
2x30 Shootas
3 Kannonz

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Martin · 658 weeks ago

Nice list. Are the KFF there to protect the orks or Crons? Why shootas and not the cc version?

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chumbalaya 79p · 658 weeks ago

KFF only works on Orks since they're allies of convenience. Still, 5+ in the open for the whole mob is really handy in the focus fire edition. Plus, it turns to 4+ or 3+ with Night Fight, including when I pop the pulse.

I've got shootas because their job is not to rush across the board, but clog up midfield with bodies. The extra shots help, and their assault presence is more for tying things down than actually killing.

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Threadmiser 79p · 658 weeks ago

That and overwatch makes orks squee.

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Threadmiser 79p · 658 weeks ago

How do you do your Tomb Blades Chumby? I've found that adding 1 particle caster to the mix can be quite useful but haven't tried out the upgrades much; Shadowloom seems boss though

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chumbalaya 79p · 658 weeks ago

I just did 5 with Gauss Blasters. I don't have AP4 or mid-range gauss anywhere else in my list, they're cheap and reasonably durable.

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Threadmiser 79p · 658 weeks ago

GBs are nice but I carry a lot of gauss in my army anyway. I tend to use tomb blades as a massive distraction force and can see the appeal of a unit with stealth dropping 5 S6 blasts a turn being really hard to kill and impossible to ignore, but I have no practical experience with running them like that.

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chumbalaya 79p · 658 weeks ago

If you have gauss already then you wouldn't really need more. Shredders and Stealth isn't a bad combo, just bear in mind they cost twice as much.

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ru486baby · 659 weeks ago

Im a big fan of the Pain boy SC for a large mob of allied orks when you want them going forward an actual save against overwatch shots lets them multi assault with less fear of getting shot out of range.

1 reply · active 659 weeks ago

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abusepuppy 121p · 659 weeks ago

Grotsnick destroys your ability to actually control what his unit does, so he's not worth it. Tau will reasonably often want their Orks to hang back and form a wall the way Kroot often did before, so being forced to charge into the fray is quite counterproductive.

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VampireCabbage · 659 weeks ago

Long time reader, first time commenter.....

You've missed a trick with the broadsides, give them the shas'vre upgrade as well, this gives them the unit type 'In (Ch)' which allows them to precision shot (should you find them shooting at a termy/pala squad for example) and allows them to LoS incoming precision shots onto their drones

And the point that's up for debate, if you upgrade them to 'vre then the drones also gain the character unit type so they could LoS non-instant death wounds back to the commanding suit and also accept challenges should they find themselves in assault

1 reply · active 659 weeks ago

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abusepuppy 121p · 659 weeks ago

Precision shots when you're shooting at tanks are fairly unnecessary- I mean, it's not like you're shooting down a lot of tank squadrons. Likewise, with Broadsides' enormous range, the likelihood of them being in range of enemy characters shooting them is fairly low- and even if they are, the 2+ armor save should shrug off any weapon a character is carrying fairly easily.

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Sethis_II 87p · 659 weeks ago

75pts for 5 BS2 Autocannons (on average).
100pts for 2 Twin Linked BS3 Skyfire Interceptor Autocannons plus 24" of difficult terrain/4+ cover saves for the enemy to jump over

Possibility?

3 replies · active 658 weeks ago

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abusepuppy 121p · 659 weeks ago

The Aegis does require a unit to man it. You could drop the KFF on the Mek and run that instead (which I had been playing with as an idea), but I don't think it's a replacement so much as a supplement.

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Sethis_II 87p · 658 weeks ago

Well I kinda assumed that one of the three squads of Fire Warriors could stand near it and do their pew pew thing. :)

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tzeentchling 76p · 658 weeks ago

The Shas'el can also man it if need be. I really wanted Ethreals to have BS 4, so I could stick one on an Aegis Gun!

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Panzerbjørn · 659 weeks ago

It would probably fail horribly, but I really want to do a Tau w Chaos Daemons list just for the lols...

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wolfbane · 658 weeks ago

On a not-so-army list related thought - when I see "Gundam Boyz," I have a mental image of Char's Zaku done "right 'n' propa!" with plenty of red paint to compliment all the red on there already. :P

The question though on the Ork Boyz - are they the shoota or slugga variety (with the Sluggas replacing Kroot as a melee meatshield). The other question though is would a squad of deffcoptas or wartrakks be a good FA compliment for the Tau?

2 replies · active 658 weeks ago

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tzeentchling 76p · 658 weeks ago

99% of the time, Shootas. They're still better than Tau in CC but can actually do things on the approach, and have a better Overwatch.

At higher points, certainly those would be good FA compliments. Tau don't have anything like that in their FA.

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wolfbane · 658 weeks ago

I also think Shootas are helped by snapfire/overwatch rules since the Boyz don't care what their BS is when they perform that when moving into position or maneuvering a wall of green to keep the enemy off the Tau units (a Big Shoota or two might be a good idea for scaling up to a bigger points value...or rokkits).

Just too bad that Weirdboyz as they are now don't have a psychic defense otherwise they would be a good HQ addition as allies (then again they could entertain the Tau then they to 'eadbanging. :P) as the Tau lack much in the way of psychic defenses (unless a new codex gives them a natural resistance better than that of Deny the Witch).

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