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Friday, August 24, 2012

Tyranids in 6th Part 4: Cut to the Quick (Fast Attack)



Fast Attack is a slot that went from being usable, if not exactly impressive, to being excellent. You can't call it the best in the codex because Elites still has your tank-hunters, but it's an excellent place to find (surprise, surprise) fast assault units to keep the enemy busy. Unfortunately, that's only true for the top couple of units in the slot- from there is goes downhill VERY quickly, bottoming out with some of the worst units in the codex (though admittedly still better than the poor, benighted Pyrovore.)

The FA slot is mostly about supporting the rest of your forces with aggressive attention-drawing units. Rarely will they survive the battle, since their job is essentially to crash headlong into the enemy formation in order to delay them, but that isn't really a big deal, as expendable units are just fine for the Hive Mind.

Gargoyles
By far the "best" choice in the codex nowadays, Gargoyles give you a fast, threat-projecting element that can screen other element of your force in a pinch. At practically the same price as Termagants (but unable to get free Toxin/Adrenal) but significantly faster and better in combat, Gargoyles can be a serious pain for many armies to face early on, as they can get up close very quickly and clog movement/shooting lanes, giving the main body of of the army time to arrive.

However, they are not without their faults, which (along with the annoyance of transporting the models) is why I have wavered on them. For one, with the new cover rules (needing 25% obscurement for infantry models), Gargoyles are sometimes hard-pressed to get a save against anything, especially with their tendency to rush forward at full tilt. This same behavior also can mean that they are put out of Synapse range in the early turns, likely causing them to do something annoying like race for cover or pew-pew worthlessly at a tank.

However, for the aggressive Tyranid army, Gargoyles are a real godsend and running 40-60 of them will be fairly common. Gargoyles should always be equipped with Adrenal Glands to ensure that they can charge/hurt tanks early on- fifteen or so of them will generally be enough to glance a Rhino to death, which may not be an amazing use of them, but all those squishy bodies will still be getting in the way and getting in the enemy's face. Toxin Sacs can certainly be worthwhile if you have some points available, but I don't consider them a high priority- rerolls to wound are nice and all, but killing models is not really your main goal. You want to get stuck in and be annoying- anything you kill is just a bonus. Broods should never be less than fifteen models strong, as you simply crumple too easily under firepower; twenty is probably ideal at lower values, going up to thirty in 1750 or 2K.

Raveners
Though suffering significantly compared to Gargs, Raveners may still have a place in the arsenal because of their rare ability to ignore cover combined with excellent speed. On the other hand, 5+ cover combined with T4 is a recipe for disaster against the many, many heavy weapons out there, which is a major limiter on what they can do.

Beast status is now a pretty huge deal, giving you 12" move and Fleet as well as ignoring all cover at all times, giving Raveners effective assault grenades. Though they are not particularly deadly, a significant number of WS5 attacks with Rending will at least not just be shrugged off by most Marines. Raveners are quite capable of chewing up small squads of MEQs or GEQs in significant number with relative, as they have a fairly good set of numbers behind them, but the 5+ save will usually give them trouble if anything survives to swing back.

Raveners are likely a niche choice at best, but unlike their unlucky Warrior cousins, they seem to still be a reasonable pick in the right army. Rending Claws are pretty much a given for them, though you shouldn't feel too horrible about taking running twinned Talons. The various guns are likewise okay but not awful- if you go with one of them, Devourers or Spinefists are probably best because of cost.

Harpies
Now, unfortunately, we start to get into the more mediocre options. Harpies benefited a lot from some of the new changes, specifically becoming Flying Monstrous Creatures, but with a pathetically-weak Vector Strike and low survivability otherwise, their place in "real" armies is questionable. I do love the flying doofuses, but I can't in good conscience claim that they are powerful or effective.

Being hit on sixes is a pretty excellent place to be, especially combined with the maneuverability options of a FMC and ability to start on-board in all games, but with flyers running rampant in the game, everyone and their brother is bringing ways to shoot down such targets, and as an FMC you have a risk that comes with going high- Grounded Tests. Every time you take a hit, you've got a 33% chance to take another bonus wound on top of it, and unlike Daemons you don't have a save to shrug those off with. Add in your mediocre regular save (4+) and utter inability to shoot at enemy flyers and you're looking less and less viable. Oh, and don't forget that the change to the damage table means you can't kill a tank unless it's open-topped.

As a result of all of the above factors, the Harpy is something that should be left in the box unless you are looking for a kooky conversion project, a gimmick FMC army, or have never seen an Autocannon or Heavy Bolter in your entire life.

Spore Mine Clusters
A very cute gimmick, but not one that really ever works due to their awkward deployment rules. And since pretty much all of them will vanish as soon as the game begins, a pretty expensive one. Servo-Skulls cost 3pts and do basically the same thing, except they actually start where you want them to every time.

Skyslasher Swarms
These are like Rippers, but more expensive for essentially no benefit. Oooh, they can fly- that means fewer cover saves as I rush in to get into combats I can't win.

Shrikes
The winged Warriors suffer just as much as their compatriots do from the changes to cover, all the more so because their natural save is weaker and they are more likely to be in isolated positions. They can provide forward Synapse, but unlike the Parasite they can't really hide anywhere, so they will generally be shot down quite quickly.

Though hardly as bad a choice as Sky-Slashers or Spore Mines, they're not something you will really ever see on the battlefield because they just don't have much of a role. If they were some sort of non-Monstrous FMC, on the other hand...

Comments (33)

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Anonymous Foodie's avatar

Anonymous Foodie · 658 weeks ago

Beasts do not ignore cover - they are *not slowed* by difficult terrain (move or charge). Init penalty comes from simply moving through difficult terrain, so they're still striking at I1.

That said, I still think they can be a cheap rocket unit. Surplus movement to shuffle wounded models to the back, and plowing through terrain allows them a dependable threat range - if kept near center of your force, they can fill about any gap that opens up within your lines. Or, of course, they can play the sneaky flank game. This is what I used to use them for, back when they were ld 10... and now that they don't go all crazy, it still works.

I'm the first to agree that missiles hurt this sort of squad. The plus side is that a lot of MC's (ie - things you want to shoot missiles at) became far more viable, giving Nids back the ability to flood target priority. Shoot the Shrikes, or shoot the Raveners. The other one will eat you.

A quick note on Shrikes, I find them to be probably higher on the scale than you do. They bring a lot more options to the table than raveners. You can do guns if you want (lame), or kit them out with serious CC goodies (sword and lash, or just double swords). They can even take upgrades (guess Raveners leapt out of the gene pool too early). Raveners can be a solid CC unit. Shrikes can be a really scary one. The saving grace of the 5+ save is that 4+ cover is still prominent on the board. Ruins, Hills, ducking behind buildings/walls... with a 12" move that ignores intervening terrain, you're almost hard pressed to *not* find something suitable. Possible to get stuck with a 5+, yes, and you can't just throw Gargs in front and call it a day, but that doesn't mean it's difficult to find better.
12 replies · active 657 weeks ago
I was working off the Wraiths example, where not being slowed by DT tests also meant you ignored the initiative penalty as well. If you have a good counter-example, though I'd certainly concsider it.

The problem with Shrikes vs Raveners is that they are more expensive for what they do. Raveners are +1A, +1I, and Rending for the same price as a Shrike- admittedly, the Shrike has a gun, but that's not much of an advantage for a melee unit. You can sink for Boneswords and Toxin to make the Shrike a really dangerous combatant... but now you're a T4 multiwound creature that costs 50+pts and probably is not getting cover. (The height of the flying stand makes it significantly harder to do so.)

Raveners are (relatively) cheap and disposable. Shrikes are a fair bit less so. I don't think there are many good reasons to take a brood of Shrikes over their competitors these days.
Not being slowed by terrain (Beasts) is not the same as ignoring the terrain (Wraiths). Apples and Oranges. Unless a model has a specific rule otherwise, if it moves through terrain during its assault, it will strike at I1 (barring grenades, of course).
I think it's just as likely they intended this ability to ignore the slowing effects of terrain both in the movement roll and the Initiative slowing. It's something I sent to them for an FAQ clarification.
"Wraithflight: Canoptek Wraiths are never slowed by difficult terrain and automatically pass dangerous terrain tests."

"Beasts are not slowed by difficult terrain (even when charging.)"

I'm not sure what kind of difference you're seeing between the two.
Stephane4985's avatar

Stephane4985 · 658 weeks ago

Doesn't seems to be any difference. Is there some faq saying Wraith doesn't attack at I1? Because it is pretty clear in the 6th ed rulebook that the only condition to attack as I1, is going through difficult terrain. Regardless if you are slowed or not or have to pass a dangerous terrain test.

So both should attack at I1.
clever handle's avatar

clever handle · 658 weeks ago

but if your attacks are reduced to striking at I1 you have been slowed.

what about harelquins flip belts? I don't have either eldar codex, what is the wording for them?
Harlequins "ignore Difficult Terrain", which is a broader wording than "are never slowed by Difficult Terrain".
BaselessElm's avatar

BaselessElm · 658 weeks ago

They 'ignore difficult terrain', so they aren't reduced to I1, although as long as you protect the Shadowseer it is irrelevant, as he grants the squad assault grenades.
The only reason I can see for Wraiths not getting dropped to I1 when they Charge through Terrain is if they use their Jump Packs in the Assault Phase. I can't find anything else in the Dex or FAQ that indicates to me that they would still get to strike at Init otherwise.
clever handle's avatar

clever handle · 658 weeks ago

I1 is "slower" than I2+. to have your initiative reduced is to be slowed. Therefore to not be slowed is to not have your initiative reduced. Lets see if GW can make this clearer in the BYB FAQ.
HAHAHA, GW answering real questions...the BRB FAQ will be filled with beard grooming tips from your Spiritual Liege(tm) and nothing more.
Anonymous Foodie's avatar

Anonymous Foodie · 657 weeks ago

Being "slowed" by difficult terrain is wording used only in regard to movement distances (be they during the movement or assault phase).
The Initiative penalty is a flat detriment due to having moved through Difficult terrain during the assault phase, period.

Shrikes also give Synapse, and solid psychic defense (and the shorter range is helped by longer movement). Further, the flight stand is moot, because you don't need one. The (closest approximation of a) model is mounted on a standard base. If someone tells me all my winged creatures need flying stands for some reason, I'll point to the flying Tyrant (not on a flying stand), assault marines (not on a flying stand), and any other examples that I can't think of off the top of my head. Scourges, maybe chaos raptors.

Equally equipped, Raveners will give you more bang for your buck in terms of pure assault - absolutely. Shrikes at least offer you the chance for something that will hit harder (swords, adrenals, etc) if you're willing to make (and protect) the investment, as well as the army buffs of Synapse and Shadow.
Damn GW's ambigous wording! They could have said "Whraiths, beasts, whatever...

1-treat difficult terrain as open terrain
2-ignore the effects of difficult terrain

If they intended beasts wraiths, whatever to both roll 2D6 when charging like normal and strike at normal Initiative when charging through difficult terrain
3 replies · active 657 weeks ago
If they had said "ignore the effects," then people would argue that they don't suffer/benefit from mysterious terrain.

What? Why is everyone laughing? I'm not the only one using mysterious terrain, right?
Matt-Shadowlord's avatar

Matt-Shadowlord · 658 weeks ago

If a tree falls in a mysterious forest, does anyone other than Matt Ward even care?
Nope! Mysterious terrain has been a part of my games. It happens now!
Here's a list I'm mucking around with that includes a large squad of Gargoyle.

Hive Tyrant, TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2,Old Adversary; Armoured Shell, biomancy
Hive Tyrant TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2; Hive Commander, biomancy
1 Carnifex Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2

2 Hive Guard Brood
2 Hive Guard Brood

The Doom of Malan'tai, spore, biomancy

Tervigon, catalyst
15 Termagant Brood
28 Hormagaunt Brood

6 Genestealer Brood, 1 Broodlord, telepathy

29 Gargoyle Brood

I'm not sure if this bit is allowed but it is kind of important, can Hive Tyrants join a brood of 1?

Ok this is how it works, the big guys form a gunline with the Armoured shell HT out in front and move forward as they can, with L,oS this basically makes it a 2+ 18 wound monster. The double choice of biomancy is to mainly get Iron arm but the others are nice in this tree as well, Endurance helps these guys no end, life leach brings back wounds, warp speed makes them just a little bit more speedy (who doesnt like fleet MCs), and there's a chance of getting the old virus grenade back with haemorrhage. According to various arguments they also stack Shadows in the Warp for shut down ability (if a little limited by range) however DtW is at 4+ ( I think, does this stack, otherwise a 5+). Finally when (if) it gets to the enemy line it splits in 3 seperate close combat units if this is required.

The Hive Guard lurk within 6" of the HTs for rerolls of 1 to hit and wound.

The doom is always funny and really is a distraction, however with biomancy it can gain some extra survivability and starts to mess up enemy psykers early in game, coming in a 2+ turn 2.

Tervigon, it outflanks (thanks to hive commander)and gives it's brood FnP.
15 unit Termagant Brood, stays in reserve and comes on for back-field objective holding. They go to ground in whatever terrain is available.

Hormagaunt Brood, screens the gun broods and moves forward as the whole army moves forward. Tarpits deathstars. Gargoyle Brood does the same thing only further in front. Also useful for picking off outlier units.

The Genestealer is a utility unit, its role will change depending on the game and set up. But it's a middle ground/flanking objective holder. Otherwise to push off a back field objective holder. Really they won’t be doing much except hiding until turn 3/4. Why Telepathy? I play Tomb Kings in fantasy and there is nothing funnier than killing extremely expensive models automatically. This is what Psychic scream does. Otherwise invisible genestealer survive longer, tyranid hallucination grenades what’s not to like, terrify is situational but useful to stop ork hordes, and stupid fearless units like death company and some terminators that shall remain nameless. It also gives the brood lord the ability to rally lurking units with mental fortitude.

The anti-flyer once more comes from the big gun brood, I think it can glance a flyer to death a turn, its around 7 hits a turn, so struggles against AV12 but will kill the other flyers. this is where possibly swaping out 1 of the biomancies for telekinesis might be a good idea.

So effective or does it have some glaring weakness?

I mucked around with teleporting armies using telekinesis and lictors but it doesnt work until turn 3 and the chances of lossing 200pt MCs in the warp makes it too dumb.
4 replies · active 658 weeks ago
WestRider's avatar

WestRider · 658 weeks ago

Hive Tyrants can't Join anything except Tyrant Guard, and only one Tyrant may Join each Guard Unit. As far as I can tell, that pretty much completely breaks apart your DeathStar there.
Well there goes all of my street cred. Back to the drawing board.
clever handle's avatar

clever handle · 658 weeks ago

tyranid prime w/ 2x dakka fex. You can take like 13 wounds before you lose a single shot / swing in combat & put out an insane amount of firepower - oh and majority toughness 6. Throw regeneration (or whatever the FNP / IWND power is) on that unit and laugh your way to the bank.
OK, so based on my incorrect understanding of the rules and some of the adive here's a change. I still want to go heavy shooting but also want to be able to 1. protect the units that do the shooting and 2. take out those enemy units that are likely to kill my shooting.

Hive Tyrant, TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2,Old Adversary; Armoured Shell, Hive Commander, biomancy. Not sure if this will live for the 2 turns that it is required but hopefully biomancy will assist this.

3 Hive Guard Brood - as before
The Doom of Malan'tai, spore, biomancy - as before
7 Ymgarl Genestealer Brood takes out missile launcher type units

1 Tervigon - walks forward behind the main line
30 Hormagaunt Brood run forward with Catalyst protecting them
26 Gargoyle Brood - deep strikes and shoots infantry 1st turn they arrive then charge
10 Termagant Brood - stays in reserve as before

8 Tyranid Warrior Brood Deathspitter + 1 Tyranid Prime, 85 pts Deathspitter this unit outflanks and targets infantry

2 Biovore Brood- 90 pts I had left over, some harrassing barrage fire for units link longfangs.

So there are 5 units in reserve that will be taking advantage of Hive Commander and arriving turn 2, this will be when the main line is setting up for charges. This means that hopefully turn 3 is the game winner. With MCs getting a 5++ cover save from troops my 2 MC might make it through to turn 3. I'm playin a game in a week so we'll see. My 1st with Tyranids since 1997.
Strategist's avatar

Strategist · 658 weeks ago

Couple quick nitpicks:
1. Hive Tyrants can only join units of Tyrant Guard, as they aren't independant characters but the Tyrant Guard's Shieldwall rule allows a single Tyrant to attach to them as though it were an IC before deployment.
2. The Brood Lord can't use any witchfire powers (BS 0... no Psychic Scream) or any powers that use Warp Charge 2 (so no Invisibility etc.).

I'm also not sure if the Tervigon is the most ideal thing to be outflanking personally, especially since you only have one and they can't spawn on the turn they arrive from reserves.
10 replies · active 657 weeks ago
Strategist's avatar

Strategist · 658 weeks ago

Anyway, one problem that stands out to me with a quick reading of the list is that it isn't really taking advantage of your two primary effect bubbles (Old Adversary and Brood Progenitor). With that in mind, I'd be inclined to say drop the Doom + Pod and Carnifex for a couple Devourer-equipped Termagant broods (you should be able to get at least two 15-man squads), and Toxin Sacs for your Tervigon. Not only do they benefit from both effects, a single brood also isn't too bad outflanking due to their range and general anti-personal firepower.
They CAN spawn when they arrive.

Reserves are not conducted in the moment phase but "at the start of the turn.

GAH! can't find the last post I did where I laid out the rules (something to do with blessings, which are specifically prohibited)
Basic premise however is below.

Reserves: defines that they happen at "start of the turn" "may not move further in their movement phase"
Turn page (expressly tells you events can occur outside the standard MOVE, SHOOT, ASSAULT template.

"rules that specify they are "used at the start of the turn" may not be used form reserve's.

Yes tervigons CAN spawn from reserve......but its not that great a tactic.
Doesn't it count as moving when you move onto the board? Because a Tervi specifically must spawn before it moves.

No, wait. I see it. You are trying to state that Reserves aren't part of the movement phase? Where does it say that? There ISN'T a Reserve Phase, you know that, right? And Movement is the start of the turn.

The phrase "The player can then proceed to move his other units as normal." Even backs me up. It doesn't say "The player can proceed to start his Movement Phase" or anything. It implies you're ALREADY in the Movement Phase.

And the only time it mentions "the model cannot move further during the Movement phase" is when it refers to Immobilized vehicles and vehicles that are forced onto the board because of size issues.

Go find your old post, if you'd like, but I see nothing that indicates that Reserves is somehow breaking the turn order.
Works like this.

"At the start of your Turn Two, you must roll aD6 for each
unit being held in reserve - these are known as Reserve
Rolls. If the roll is a 3 or rnore, that unit arrives this turn. If
the roll is less than 3 it remains in reserve and is rolled for
agaln next turn." P124

So this tells us WHEN they happen, "at the start of the turn"
so we look to the turn sequence....

Unsw EXCEPTIONS:
"While playing Warhammer 40'000 ,you'll ccasionally
discover exceptions to the general turn sequence laid out
here, when things are worked out as they occur rather than
in any strict order." P9

This tells us that the exceptions where specified can occur OUTSIDE the normal Move, shoot, assault. RESERVES as stated in its own rules is one of these exceptions.
I'm on the other side of the fence now. 5th paragraph down 2nd column p 124. "When a Reserve unit arrives, it must move fully onto the table..." Seems to mean that you have to move your unit to deploy it. It doesnt say place or deploy your unit on the table it says move it.
So your interpretation is that tervigons have *gained* the ability to spawn the turn they arrive? I guess this could be correct if they don't count as having moved in the reserves movement, but it's a thin grey line you're walking.

If so, they've got the only outflanking assaulters in the game, as they can spawn gaunts which can move, shoot and assault the turn they arrive. It would be a hilariously great tactic to tie up a wolf guard squad or kill a stationary rear AV 10 vehicle that thinks it's safe within 24" of a flank in 6th.
Yeah that's the way it works but to get it your dropping what 200pts to get an av of 10 gants assaulting...not great.
You must spawn before you move.

Before you move you are not on the board.

Units not on the board cannot use abilities unless explicitly stated otherwise.

Q.E.D. You cannot spawn when arriving from reserves.
It's arguable whether powers that don't roll to hit (such as Beams, Novas, etc) work with a Broodlord. I've been under the assumption that they do, but it could go either way.
clever handle's avatar

clever handle · 658 weeks ago

my gaming group as well - if you don't have to roll to hit you don't auto-fail that roll by being limited by BS0.

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