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"Pink isn't a color. It's a lifestyle." - Chumbalaya
"...generalship should be informing list building." - Sir Biscuit
"I buy models with my excess money" - Valkyrie whilst a waitress leans over him


Saturday, July 31, 2010

Fantasy High Elf lists! 2250


Still catching up on some e-mails but I thought I'd do a more personal post today! So the other day I thought I'd attempt to put together some HE lists scaling up from 2250 to 3000 (2250 = Aussie tourney size, 3000 = size Vince and I want to play at) just to get an idea of how to build lists, what I want and how I want to play my HE, etc. I also looked at the Lores of Magic from the Fantasy BRB so will be writing a review post on them later but most likely after my Blood Rodeo How To. So, let's get cracking.

Now most of you should know I got into Fantasy because of magic. Dur. It's awesome. So I'm going to limit myself somewhat and have two mages, no discussion I'm afraid. Whilst I'll go into this further with my review of the Magical Lores I've gone for High Magic on my Lv4 Archmage and Metal Magic on my Lv2 Mage. I'll explain more as we get into the meat of this article. I'm also a fan of the look of the Lothern Sea Guard but they are too expensive on the table but I can replce an Archer squad with these guys to actually get closer to the 25% requirement for Core without losing too much overall from the army so I've gone for a squad of these. The added flexibility to accept a charge is also nice. Otherwise I want as much shooting as possible to support my cavalry and chariot styled army list. I love the look of Lion Chariots and Dragon Princes but I think these guys are going to be few and far between in my list rather than the norm with Tiraonic and Silver Helms the mainstay of my army. I'd like to use the pretty Reaver models from Island of Blood but unlikely, maybe can convert some into Silver Helms/Dragon Princes though!

So to start with let's get our percentages out of the way. @ 2250 we need 562+ points in core and no more in our Rare/Lords/Heroes sections. 2500 = 625 and 3000 = 750. This gives us an idea of scaling up and down and I want to try and keep the same style of list throughout if I can. So let's get our magic out of the way. I want 2 mages as I said before, a lv4 and lv2. Teclics is always a choice as well but at the lower points he's going to be hard to fit in and maintain a balanced force so if I did take him I'd just go with the one mage. Mass IF though is pretty amazing so let's take the Book of Hoeth on the Archmage if we don't go with Teclics. Some quick math, 2d6 = IF 1/6 and miscast 1/36, 3d6 = IF 4/9 and miscast 2/27 and 4d6 = IF 13/18 and miscast 13/108 and on average I'm going to generate 7-8 power dice without any upgrades, etc. We'll stick this guy with High Magic to cast a lot of spells (High magic being rather easy to cast). Curse of Arrow attraction being the staple spell to really improve HE shooting. Vaul's unmaking can really screw over some armies with expensive magic items (like me :P) whilst Flames of Pheonix can do a lot of damage if left unchecked. Add in the great utility of Drain Magic, Shield and Courage and we've got a spell spammer with IF :). For our lv2 mage I've decided on metal magic which helps dictate what arcane item he gets, the silver wand. Whilst the Archmage is our spell spammer our Mage is much more utility oriented and we want to get the spells we want as reliably as possible. Whilst Metal Magic is a lot harder to cast spells like Enchanted Blades and Glittering Robes can really help HE armies and Searing Doom, Hounds and Final Transmutation are all excellent for dealing with heavily armored troops, another thing HE can have issues with.

So from there we need to work out our core. We've spent 360 + 145 points on our Lord/heroes so fine there percentage wise and not a huge points sink. We need just under 600 points of Core then and we want one Lothern Sea Guard unit. Whilst not terribly efficient it gives our backline some sort of defense with a spear unit and are pretty! So let's take a squad of 10 of them with a Muscian for quick reform and 4 Archer units of 10. This sends us just over the Core percentage limit, excellent. We've not got a bunch of shooting at a pretty decent range which augmented by magic is pretty good. Let's add to this shooting with some RBTs. These also help thin down hordes with their bolt thrower rule and with magic can be very accurate. Let's take 4. We've got about 770 points left to spend now on our specials!

Quick point check. 5x Helms w/Shields = 115 pts. 5x Princes = 150 pts. Tiranoc = 85 pts. Lion Chariot = 140pts. Unlikely to fit in multiple Princes or Lion Chariots and we don't want our assault force to be too weak. So let's try 4x Helms and 4x Tiranocs. 800 pts so a bit over and I'd also like some pretty stuff. Let's drop one of each and see where we are. That gives us 600 points just enough points for a squad of Princes or a Lion Chariot. Princes are really good when you give them the Ellyrion banner which we don't have enough points for so Lion Chariot it is and we've got some leftover points! We'll buff out our LSG unit with full command (FC) and a magic banner (eternal flame) putting us squarely on 2250 with all of our percentages ticked. Let's check out what we have for the basis of our build:

Lords -
Lv4 Archmage w/Book of Hoeth, High Magic
Heroes -
lv2 Mage w/Silver Wand, Metal Magic

Core -
4x 10x Archers
10x Lothern Sea Guard w/Musician, Sea Master, Standard Bearer w/Banner of Eternal Flame

Special -
3x 5x Silver Helms w/Shields
3x Tiranoc Chariots
Lion Chariot of Chrace

Rare -
4x Repeater Bolt Thrower

Totals: 2250
4 warmachines
15 cavalry
4 chariots
52 infantry

Not bad and I think this post has gone on long enough so we'll take a look at the 2500/3000 variants later. Good news is though that I can get basically everything I need from the Battalion and Island of Blood boxed sets (? a battle force army which seems good :O!?). Just need to get the chariots really if this is the way I go.

So thoughts? Is my first fantasy list way off the mark, pretty good or getting there? Gogo magic remember =D.

8 pinkments:

Kuolema said...

Not bad, not bad. It includes everything you want and looks decent.

Few points thou.

Magic defense, you seem to be relying on drain magic and +5 from having a level 4 and being HE. I don't think that is going to cut it if someone goes really magic heavy. Thinking two level 3s or 4s.

Second while casting lots of quick easy spells looks good you must never forget if you fail to cast a spell your level 4 can't cast anything else that turn. More spells you cast more chance of the dice disagreeing with you.

The book, while lots of IF is nice your mage is REALLY squishy. You have lots of points sitting in one T3 elf with no save haven't got a look thou the new magic items myself but I've heard there are some nice ones to keep your heros safe, high elves have some decent magic items of their own.

Leadership, You don't have a BSB so be prepared to see your little elves running away after a few casualities every now and then. But elven leadership isn't horrible so shouldn't be too much of an issue.

VT2 said...

I learned the hard way that you really, really want a battle standard at all times - not matter how large or small your army is.

High elves can put theirs on chariots, like dark elves, right?

Other than that, it looks a bit like my first dark elf army =P

jollyboy42 said...

I think you will be in trouble in the Blood and Glory mission.

I would suggest some more banners, and to make that worthwhile, I would suggest running your archer units in units of at least 15 with a banner. That will allow you to take advantage of the Volley Fire rule and put a banner in the unit without taking a chance of losing it easily.

So instead of running 4 10x archers, I would suggest 1 19x archer with banner and 2 10x archer.

Chumbalaya said...

I think a block of 20-25 spearmen backed by archers would be good. Gives you a cheap steadfast unit you can augment with a magic banner and hide your BSB in. Archers make for decent disruption and shooty, but don't expect much even with Curse of Arrow Attraction.

Banners are a must now. I had the same problem with my Skaven, so I've dropped out some MSU stormvermin for more Clanrat units.

Drain Magic and +5 to dispel is pretty damn good, but failing 1 dispel roll will fuck you over. I like a more aggressive magic defense, killing the casters :P

I'm trying to figure out how I want my HE, but I think it will look similar. I'll be picking up some Eagles and Shadow Warriors for sure and probably drop to 2 "wings" of cav and chariots centered on my BSB unit. Phoenix Guard are a possibility too.

Kirby said...

Okay finally have some time to reply =p.

@Kuolema; Drain Magic and +5 to dispel isn't enough o.O? In regards to casting easy spells aye, I'm still tossing up between who gets what in terms of the Lores but I think High Magic is just that more beneficial for the list overall with things like Vaul's, Flames & Arrow Curse. I've practice rolled some dice just to get a feel of the magic phase but not the same as in a game. Book of Hoeth is 100pts so I can't give the Mage anything else can I?

@jollyboy42; barely skimmed the missions, what's that one focus on sorry? I think my issues of large units is complete lack of flexibility it brings you + forces my opponent to get more units into combat with me. Again, not sure how this will work until I get some actual games in though.

@Chumbalaya; I was going to use Spearmen but just wanted to use the Lothern Sea Guard models =p. Could always have them counts-as Spearmen I guess. I would of thought 40 longbows + RBTs with re-rolls to hit most of the time would of been pretty good, especially if some Metal hexes get off.

In regards to BSB. HE can only take it on their Princes? This would most likely mean dropping my lv2 which would really put a burden on my Lv4 unless I went maybe a lv3 with no Book of Hoeth backed up by some Lv1/2s? We'll see if this list works better at 2500 when I post that list today! Thanks for feedback so far guys.

jollyboy42 said...

@Kirby - Blood and Glory is the one that punishes you for not having banners. You have a fortitude score based upon the number of banners in the list. If you drop below the point total / 1000 for you fortitude score, you auto-lose. So at 2500 the key value is 3.

I do not remember exactly, but you get a point for your general, and a point for each banner. So, you would be awfully close to an auto-lose on that mission.

The other mission that you want to pay close attention to is the Watchtower. Those 2 missions will change your army build.

Chumbalaya said...

jollyboy42 is correct on that. Auto-losing a mission is very bad. I went from a Fortitude of 2 (only my General at 2k) to 5 (2 clanrat banners and BSB). It's not like units with banners are bad, and BSBs are pretty damn useful.

I'll be using the pretty LSG models as spearmen myself. Bows en masse look good, just remember that it's a bunch of S3 shots.

jollyboy42 said...

Just for clarification. You get 2 for the general and 1 for every banner. So at 2.5k, you have 3 and the total you cannot fall below is 3. So if you lose your general, or the LSG, you auto-lose.

The Watchtower scenario requires a lot of thought also. If you do not have a HtH element to take out whatever is in the tower, you lose also.

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