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Tuesday, October 12, 2010

Spam. There must be another way.



In a recent post Kirby was asked to help build a list for a comp'd event. It's easier to post the Email here rather than making you go and read it, so here it is...

"Dear Kirby,
Since you're used to dealing with comp in your area, I figured you'd be the best to contact on the manner. So here's my dilemma, I have a heavily comped GT coming up and from the looks of the missions, it seems to favor those whom can win by a sizable margin of VP and KP. Unfortunately, I've always played a redundant codex marine list, and while not flashy, it can take a pounding and at the end of the game, I'm the one winning. According to this comp though, you get penalized for taking redundant units. So I'm at a total loss on how to build a SM list that's not redundant but can put a beating on someone first, and worry about objectives later.
THanks,
GS"

When the author states 'redundant units', I think he is just talking about 'spam', rather than true redundancy. It'd be impossible to make a 2k list without some redundancy (try it). Before I continue, I just want to say, I have nothing against spamming force occupation slots to make a competitive list, I even do it myself. But in all honesty, it does make me a sad panda. There are so many options available to us, so many beautiful creations/choices and we end up choosing just 4 or 5 different things.

As part of a thread a while back I attempted to prove that duality and redundancy does not mean spam. I tried to create a list that didn't spam a single unit that would be able to 'compete'. I fully admit it wasn't as strong as a list that is completely spammed but it would be fun to see, at least reasonably decent and would keep those tournament organisers happy.

So just for giggles, I want you all (yeah, even you VT2, no calling special olympics on me) to come up with a list that has nothing spammed that would at least attempt to be competitive.

I'll try my luck at BT as it's the codex I know best. I'll aim for 2k points. That's going to be tough with the BT codex (lack of options), but I shall try my hardest.

HQ - Emperor's Champion - Accept any Challenge - 140

Elite - Terminators (5) - 2 x Assault Cannon, Tank Hunters - 255

Elite - Dreadnought - Assault Cannon, Venerable, Tank Hunter, Smoke Launcher, Extra Armour - 143

Dreadnought - TLLC/ML - 135

Troop - Crusader Squad (7) - Power fist/Melta - Rhino - EA, smoke - 195

Troop - Crusader Squad (5) - MM/Flamer - Rhino - smoke - 149

Troop - Crusader Squad (5) - Las/Plas - Rhino - EA, smoke - 159

Troop - Crusader Squad (5) - Las/Flamer - Rhino - EA, smoke - 159

Fast Attack - Land Speeder x 2 - MM/HF - 150

Fast Attack - Attack Bikes (2) - MM - 130

Fast Attack - Assault Squad (5) - SS x 5, MB x 5, Power Fist - 150

Heavy Support - Predator Destructor - Lascannon Sponsons - 125

Heavy Support - Pred Destructor - Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 110

Total - 2000

Like I said, this list will not mix it with the big boys, but there is not a single duplicated unit. BT is an old codex, with very few choices, and i still think this list would compete well at a comp'd tournament.

In the backfield you have 2 preds, a shooty dread, 2 troops choices with lascannons and a TLLC razor to use for cover. The main point of the list is to hit the midfield. The 2 borrowed rhinos zoom up and pop smoke. With cheap EA and old smoke launchers, they should be tough to stop. They will provide cover for everything that will be hitting the midfield. 5 terminators that put out a nasty amount of fire, a venerable tank-hunting dread, 2 x 2 MM units a MM bunker and a counter-attacking squad should anybody challenge your space.

Like I said, it's by no means awesomesauce and perhaps goes against all the 3++ rules (sorry Kirby), but I thought we'd all have some fun nerf-style. Would it be heresy to say that it takes more Generalship to build and play a list like this?? Let me see what you've got...

Comments (16)

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2000 Chaos Demons:

Masque - 100
Herald of Khorne, Chariot, Unholy Might, Blessings of the Blood God - 105

6 Fiends, Unholy Strength upgrade - 190
4 Bloodcrushers, Musician, Icon, Fury - 200
4 Flamers, Bolt of Tzeentch - 170

9 Horrors, Bolt, Changeling - 168
8 Bloodletters, Fury of Khorne - 138
12 Daemonettes - 168
7 Plaguebearers - 105

6 Scrreamers of Tzeentch - 96

Daemon Prince, Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt of Tzeentch, Daemonic Gaze - 160
Daemon Prince, Mark of Nurgle, Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies, Wings, Breath of Chaos - 215
Soul Grinder, Tongue, Phlegm - 185

Comes to 2000 exactly. It represents a pact between all 4 gods, each of whom send a representative to oversee the carnage (two heralds, two Princes). For bonus points, the Troops and some of the Elites are in sacred numbers, which will appeal to the type of people who run comp'd systems. Flamers, Horrors, Grinder, and Tzeentch prince are ranged can openers, while Screamers, Fiends, and to a lesser degree the Nurgle prince, Daemonettes, and Crushers are close-combat anti-tank. The lack of ranged anti-tank should matter less in a list where you're not likely to see mech-spam. Masque moves people around/clusters for Grinder shots/makes Dreads turn their rear armor. Horrors and Plaguebearers hopefully drop near/on objectives and sit there.
1 reply · active 754 weeks ago
Interesting fluff Kris. Oddly, the Daemon codex is the one where spamming is allowed as there are so few choices for each God.

I don't know enough about daemons to comment on the list, but I get the fluff.
You have to know I'm crying a little on the inside BroLo. :)
3 replies · active 754 weeks ago
You need to open your mind.

I'm disappointed in you...
I know what you're going for here sir. Hence the comment I gave.

However, it still makes me cry because in a non-comp arena, that is so very "meh". It is wholly contrary to everything I've tried to teach people about the BT. Unfortunately, comp doesn't allow that to happen occasionally. ;)

I suppose I could come up with a list though...I forgot you asked for that. lol
I disagree on being very meh.

Yes, it's not the best, but it's an old codex to start with and limited resources. Much better things should be achievable with the newer ones.

And yes, I want a list.
Mish-mash makes VT2 weep like a baby :(
1 reply · active 755 weeks ago
Captain Kellen's avatar

Captain Kellen · 755 weeks ago

Wolf guard battle leader w/ frost weapon and storm shield
Wolf guard battle leader w/ frost axe, storm shield, and melta-bombs

Wolf Scouts w/ meltagun
Wolf Scouts w/ melta gun

Wolf Guard
- 2x combi-melta
- 2x storm bolter
- 1x thunder hammer and storm shield
- 2x dual wolf claws
- Rhino w/ storm bolter

Grey Hunters w/ meltagun and rhino
Grey Hunters w/ meltagun and rhino

Grey Hunters w/ power weapon, mark of the wolfen, rhino
Grey Hunters w/ power weapon, mark of the wolfen, rhino

Grey Hunters, razorback w/ twin assault cannons

Landspeeder w/ Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer
Landspeeder w/ Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer

Long Fangs
- x4 missles, razorback with twin lasecannons

Long Fangs
- x4 missles, razorback with twin lase cannons

1962 points....
2 replies · active 754 weeks ago
Captain Kellen's avatar

Captain Kellen · 755 weeks ago

errr... forgot to explain....

This list allows me to attack anywhere on the board. The wolfen and battle leaders give me two quasi- brute squads. The lone grey hunter unit in the razorback is to hold one objective. The rest of the army is designed to contest objectives or kill the enemy.
Surely this IS spam?
BroLo is a sad bunny.
3 replies · active 754 weeks ago
Few replies? No Kirby reply?
You should know it's always about you Kirby. B)
Hmm, okay, I'll try my hand at it...
SM, like the OP:

100 Librarian

125 Rifleman Dread
105 Dread: Assault Cannon/DCCW
145 Dread: TL-Las/Missile

165 5 Tacticals in a Razorback: TL-Lascannon
165 5 Tacticals in a Razorback: Lascannon/TL-Plasma
215 10 Tacticals: Lascannon/Flamer, Rhino
220 10 Tacticals: Lascannon/Melta, Rhino

60 Landspeeder: MM
140 2xLandspeeder: 2xMM/HF
150 3xAttack Bike: 3xMM

85 Predator: TL-Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
130 Predator: TL-Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
190 5 xD evastator: 2xLascannon, Rhino
1995pts.

Not super-efficient, but plenty shooty and plenty of range with no repeats.

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